@JasonR
OK, even this stoic had a good belly chuckle because Spock likes dried pineapples. Your rant was like a Zen koan, taking me out of reason into the joy of the moment.
Hey, if I had a wife and she smiled and laughed, that would be a wonderful thing. But don't discount a good BM. Regularity is a good sign of health.
And I do actually ENJOY my books and my coffee quite a bit.
ERE ways to reward oneself
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jacob
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@JasonR - It's not like we/I don't have emotions. We/I just don't consider them very important when making day-to-day decisions. That said, nothing lifts my spirits like the intro scene of DS9 when the space station first comes into view. And I did feel sad when the Titanic sank in the movie, that ship was very expensive and the simultaneous sinking of Leonardo DiCaprio was only a small comfort. Also I once had a 15 minute crush on a hydroelectric water turbine, like all teenagers do, I presume.
@mikeBOS - If you can't change something, why feel bad about it. Wouldn't that be a waste of emotional energy? I realize that this is an ideal. I probably can't change the destructive course of humanity but I still feel pretty bad about it. However, the goal would be not to.
Maus made an important point regarding the 'solution'. From a system dynamical perspective, it IS bad to apply a solution that has nothing to do with the underlying problem (e.g. eating ice cream after having a fight with the spouse) because it doesn't fix the problem and it has unintended side-effects.
One easy solution is often to change one's values. For instance, I think many of us are angry about how careerism affects our work. One solution is simply to decide that careerism isn't important because you're only going to be there for a short amount of time anyway. This non-caring attitude can be helpful.
Being a semi-public figure, I have to deal with the occasional "I spent 5 minutes reading your site and based on my detailed research I have a bunch of wrong conclusions"-case. See a recent reddit thread for a prime example. Now, while this still makes me feel like strangling a bunch of those idiots, I used to spend a lot of time writing replies to such comments trying to set the record straight. This could leave me aggravated for the rest of the day pretty much. I don't do that anymore. It's a waste of mental waste. And I don't go and do something else that makes me feel good either.
I've decided that I just don't care. If someone can't be bothered to understand something before they form an opinion, I doubt I can fix THIS problem, that is, a preference for uninformed opinions, by providing information.
I forget where I saw it, but it was recently, so it may have been in here but someone said something to the effect of "I refuse to provide idiots with free rental space in my brain" (I think the original was better phrased).
@mikeBOS - If you can't change something, why feel bad about it. Wouldn't that be a waste of emotional energy? I realize that this is an ideal. I probably can't change the destructive course of humanity but I still feel pretty bad about it. However, the goal would be not to.
Maus made an important point regarding the 'solution'. From a system dynamical perspective, it IS bad to apply a solution that has nothing to do with the underlying problem (e.g. eating ice cream after having a fight with the spouse) because it doesn't fix the problem and it has unintended side-effects.
One easy solution is often to change one's values. For instance, I think many of us are angry about how careerism affects our work. One solution is simply to decide that careerism isn't important because you're only going to be there for a short amount of time anyway. This non-caring attitude can be helpful.
Being a semi-public figure, I have to deal with the occasional "I spent 5 minutes reading your site and based on my detailed research I have a bunch of wrong conclusions"-case. See a recent reddit thread for a prime example. Now, while this still makes me feel like strangling a bunch of those idiots, I used to spend a lot of time writing replies to such comments trying to set the record straight. This could leave me aggravated for the rest of the day pretty much. I don't do that anymore. It's a waste of mental waste. And I don't go and do something else that makes me feel good either.
I've decided that I just don't care. If someone can't be bothered to understand something before they form an opinion, I doubt I can fix THIS problem, that is, a preference for uninformed opinions, by providing information.
I forget where I saw it, but it was recently, so it may have been in here but someone said something to the effect of "I refuse to provide idiots with free rental space in my brain" (I think the original was better phrased).
I don't feel a need to reward myself for "doing a good job" at saving my money or living frugally. Maybe it's because I do not deprive myself of things that give my life pleasure. I go hiking and backpacking as often as I can. I purchase new gear if I need it, even expensive gear if it'll improve the experience of backpacking. I go out to eat whenever I want (mostly I like to go out for breakfast which is cheap.) I grocery shop at gourmet food stores and buy fancy cheese or weird produce if that's what I want. I go on shopping sprees at the thrift store. I spend money on hobbies and interests that I have.
What I don't do is waste money on cheap plastic crap from China, which is a euphemism for buying things that don't really matter to me.
What I don't do is waste money on cheap plastic crap from China, which is a euphemism for buying things that don't really matter to me.
In the last month, I have been consciously "celebrating" successful events. Usually, I buy some alcohol or go out to dinner. My reason I have been doing this is to create the memories of a success. Examples are getting a new job, my tutoring student getting an A, and completing a home project.
I can understand the mainstream ERE approach to keep trucking through life. However, while my cashflow is so high and my marginal returns are so high (response of GF and extroverted friends and family), I plan to keep this approach.
I can understand the mainstream ERE approach to keep trucking through life. However, while my cashflow is so high and my marginal returns are so high (response of GF and extroverted friends and family), I plan to keep this approach.
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irononmaiden
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This might sound weird, but I just do normal stuff with a celebratory mentality. I'm usually pretty serious and goal-oriented. But when I know I've accomplished something and done well at it, I cut myself a break, kick back, and just enjoy myself. Even if I'm still doing the same thing I did the day before.
The concept that I picked up from this post: Do free activities lead to ERE or does ERE lead one to cheap activities?
I think it could be a measurement to how ERE someone is. High commitment to no change in "the way," and low commitment (ERE as an end) being "still got $X to blow in this month's budget."
I think it could be a measurement to how ERE someone is. High commitment to no change in "the way," and low commitment (ERE as an end) being "still got $X to blow in this month's budget."
Do free activities lead to ERE or does ERE lead one to cheap activities?
It was mostly the first one for me. Hiking, biking, walking around the city, cooking, gaming and hanging out with friends doesn't cost much. I never really cared for hanging out in bars. I prefer well-maintained classic cars to newer ones. I like my travel to be camping and long-distance hiking/biking. The money naturally piles up. Whenever I was working I was always perplexed as to what my fellow similarly-paid co-workers were spending all their money on. I kept asking them all if they had cocaine habits or something.
It was mostly the first one for me. Hiking, biking, walking around the city, cooking, gaming and hanging out with friends doesn't cost much. I never really cared for hanging out in bars. I prefer well-maintained classic cars to newer ones. I like my travel to be camping and long-distance hiking/biking. The money naturally piles up. Whenever I was working I was always perplexed as to what my fellow similarly-paid co-workers were spending all their money on. I kept asking them all if they had cocaine habits or something.
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ScaredyCat
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I think this has been mentioned already, but my new favorite way to reward myself is to keep my weekends almost completely unplanned. The joy comes from doing things as they occur to me. When I want to be in the garden, I go out in the garden. When I want to read, I read. If I want to sit in my living room and space out, or appreciate all the things around me, I do that. Split a bottle of wine with DH, lay on the rug and take a nap, go for a swim, etc, etc. It's only as expensive as I want it to be.
It's really been a life changer. I'm finally getting over the need to always "be productive" or "get things done" (damn you Protestant work ethic!). Sometimes a whole weekend revolves around the anticipation of how awesome it will be to get the paper on Sunday morning and drink a pot of coffee. I look at it as training for ERE.
It's really been a life changer. I'm finally getting over the need to always "be productive" or "get things done" (damn you Protestant work ethic!). Sometimes a whole weekend revolves around the anticipation of how awesome it will be to get the paper on Sunday morning and drink a pot of coffee. I look at it as training for ERE.
pineapple and spock- lol!!
i must confess that i still try to counter pain/boredom with ( mostly unrelated and often having negative consequences) pleasure more often than i would like. (it's binge eating now, used to be chain smoking before). I do not for a moment think this is the best way to live. its just that i am not always strong enough to be able to tackle the real problem head-on.
i think what i believe in and would like to practice better is a semi-stoic, semi-hedonistic way of living (the behavior described in the paragraph above is not really a consequence of my hedonistic beliefs. I believe only in hedonism that doesn't lead to a massive foreseeable pleasure deficit in the future (i wish i could describe it better).
my actions are driven mostly by a hedonistic motivation (with a careful consideration of costs and benefits, projected as far into the future as possible- the kind that mikebos had written about elsewhere- about cigars etc)
i deal with the consequences with a mostly stoic frame of mind, if I'm feeling strong enough, else succumbing to the said behavior from para-1.
I would like to get every bit of pleasure out of life, as much as possible..unapologetic..and avoiding as much negative consequence as possible ( for me and everyone else), with the stoic in me always on the alert, to step forward to tackle the unforeseen/random consequences.
maybe maus or any of the other resident philosophers can elaborate on why its not a good idea to mix stoicism and hedonism (i don't know the 2 philosophies all that well or even if they are mutually exclusive..i use the terms hedonism and stoicism loosely here, for want of better words and for a lack of a better understanding of various other philosophies)
i must confess that i still try to counter pain/boredom with ( mostly unrelated and often having negative consequences) pleasure more often than i would like. (it's binge eating now, used to be chain smoking before). I do not for a moment think this is the best way to live. its just that i am not always strong enough to be able to tackle the real problem head-on.
i think what i believe in and would like to practice better is a semi-stoic, semi-hedonistic way of living (the behavior described in the paragraph above is not really a consequence of my hedonistic beliefs. I believe only in hedonism that doesn't lead to a massive foreseeable pleasure deficit in the future (i wish i could describe it better).
my actions are driven mostly by a hedonistic motivation (with a careful consideration of costs and benefits, projected as far into the future as possible- the kind that mikebos had written about elsewhere- about cigars etc)
i deal with the consequences with a mostly stoic frame of mind, if I'm feeling strong enough, else succumbing to the said behavior from para-1.
I would like to get every bit of pleasure out of life, as much as possible..unapologetic..and avoiding as much negative consequence as possible ( for me and everyone else), with the stoic in me always on the alert, to step forward to tackle the unforeseen/random consequences.
maybe maus or any of the other resident philosophers can elaborate on why its not a good idea to mix stoicism and hedonism (i don't know the 2 philosophies all that well or even if they are mutually exclusive..i use the terms hedonism and stoicism loosely here, for want of better words and for a lack of a better understanding of various other philosophies)
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jacob
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Being stoic means avoiding the passions. It is important to realize that in this sense passions DOES NOT mean what passion colloquially means today and neither does "stoic". Originally, passion meant negative emotions, that is, suffering. The stoic belief is that one can avoid that kind of passion using reason. Their reason, which I'm practically fully in according with, was that one should live in accord with the laws of nature (just accept them already, eh?). Spiritually speaking, the universe itself is governed by the laws of nature (i.e reason) and thus humans, having the faculty of reason, and uniquely capable of understanding reason. This also means that humans are the only ones capable of experiencing religion. This essentially makes stoics pantheists. The stoic "god", so to speak, is the arrangement and workings of the universe. This model is very different from mono and polytheist understandings, where the understanding of 'god' is based on a political model of an aristocracy or a king. But I digress ...
So to summarize, if you understand the universe well, then you reason well, and you will be free from suffering. This ideal is also that of a spiritual or wise man.
(You can see how stoicism would appeal to a natural scientist
)
I must admit I don't understand the hedonist position as well. It seems to me that the end goal here is not the avoidance of a negative but the seeking of a positive: pleasure. However, as we know from the hedonistic treadmill, to feel a positive emotion such as pleasure, one must also feel its negative. A quest for ever more pleasure eventually peters out and becomes bland. Thus it seems to me that hedonism leads to swings between pleasure and suffering.
If It were to compare the two in MTBI terms, I would say that stoicism is IT and hedonism is EF.
So to summarize, if you understand the universe well, then you reason well, and you will be free from suffering. This ideal is also that of a spiritual or wise man.
(You can see how stoicism would appeal to a natural scientist
)I must admit I don't understand the hedonist position as well. It seems to me that the end goal here is not the avoidance of a negative but the seeking of a positive: pleasure. However, as we know from the hedonistic treadmill, to feel a positive emotion such as pleasure, one must also feel its negative. A quest for ever more pleasure eventually peters out and becomes bland. Thus it seems to me that hedonism leads to swings between pleasure and suffering.
If It were to compare the two in MTBI terms, I would say that stoicism is IT and hedonism is EF.
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jacob
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So maybe to answer the original question, while I don't reward myself with pleasure following suffering, I do do things on the cheap that in a sense is in accordance with my nature on an ongoing basis irregardless of what kind of life events perspire.
I like hot hot sauces (like Dave's Insanity or After Death). I have a (not so) small collection in the fridge.
I make one good cup of coffee each day.
I like to poke around on amazon's "people who bought this also bought that" and then get the books from the library. This is almost always interesting.
I like hot hot sauces (like Dave's Insanity or After Death). I have a (not so) small collection in the fridge.
I make one good cup of coffee each day.
I like to poke around on amazon's "people who bought this also bought that" and then get the books from the library. This is almost always interesting.
However, as we know from the hedonistic treadmill, to feel a positive emotion such as pleasure, one must also feel its negative.
I hear/read this critique of hedonism often and it doesn't quite make sense to me.
I think the problem is that pain and pleasure don't exactly seem like opposites to me, but rather, two unrelated things.
Whether something is painful or pleasurable has a lot to do with how you choose to perceive it. e.g. Intense exercise could be painful and unpleasurable, or it could be invigorating and uplifting. Being hungry could be unpleasant, or it could actually be enjoyed as you cook a meal and anticipate devouring it. So the hunger and fullness aren't opposites, but rather one continuous experience. And if you learn to enjoy the hunger, and think about how it will make the meal that much more satisfying, well it hardly seems like a negative experience to me. It's just a sensory perception that you choose to interpret how you like.
This as opposed to a hunger that you are unsure of when/if it will be satisfied, that I could see as being unpleasant.
But to feel the pleasure of smoking a cigar, or drinking a well-made cup of coffee, what is the opposite painful experience we must have? The experience of not having coffee or a cigar? It's not exactly "painful" to not have coffee.
I hear/read this critique of hedonism often and it doesn't quite make sense to me.
I think the problem is that pain and pleasure don't exactly seem like opposites to me, but rather, two unrelated things.
Whether something is painful or pleasurable has a lot to do with how you choose to perceive it. e.g. Intense exercise could be painful and unpleasurable, or it could be invigorating and uplifting. Being hungry could be unpleasant, or it could actually be enjoyed as you cook a meal and anticipate devouring it. So the hunger and fullness aren't opposites, but rather one continuous experience. And if you learn to enjoy the hunger, and think about how it will make the meal that much more satisfying, well it hardly seems like a negative experience to me. It's just a sensory perception that you choose to interpret how you like.
This as opposed to a hunger that you are unsure of when/if it will be satisfied, that I could see as being unpleasant.
But to feel the pleasure of smoking a cigar, or drinking a well-made cup of coffee, what is the opposite painful experience we must have? The experience of not having coffee or a cigar? It's not exactly "painful" to not have coffee.