Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

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Alphaville
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Alphaville »

oh nice. bob & brad got seal of approval from my own pt ha ha ah.

one thing to note, i scrolled through pf video and they mention shoe types cushion etc.

but they also have a video about barefoot/forefoot running, so you might want to piece things together, as some info they have might overlap etc.

anyway, i am no pt, im only a fellow patient (but with different conditions), and yeah, no steroids for me either if it can be helped.

i don’t know what you mean by crossing legs btw.

oh, question: do you favor one foot over the other when you stand? do you have a shorter/longer leg or different angles of your feet? the tilt you mention—have you had it checked/measured? hip rotation, etc? i’ve found a wide array of physical therapists, and some are awesome and some are just glorified gym staff.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Western Red Cedar »

I tend to cross my right leg over my left thigh a lot unconsciously which can shift the hip and affect muscles in the lower back. I've had PTs measure the rotation and had it corrected, but never measured on my own. I did have one PT who thought my right leg is just slightly shorter. I tried a small lift in my shoe but it felt really awkward and uncomfortable.

I've also had lower back pain for a few years now that tends to be on the right side around my Quadratus Lumborum. Most PTs seemed to think the issues were linked. I pretty much got rid of the back pain after starting a lifting regime last year but it still pops up if I'm sitting for long periods without good back support.

The Athlean X YouTube channel is one of my favorites and this video opened my eyes when talking about sleeping and sitting patterns. I think Jeff used to be a trainer for the Mets and most of his information is great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXh1oLXb6zk

His take on treating other areas of the body rather than the foot is pretty consistent with what I've found in my own research:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72p58Iy6u7M

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Alphaville
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Alphaville »

aaaaah brilliant videos, yeah, thanks for sharing those, they make a lot of sense.

and—crossing legs when sitting! ok. i don’t sit much anymore which is why i couldn’t see what you were saying haha. when i sit it’s very deliberate and i try to keep a balanced posture (both feet on the ground etc). and don’ do it for too long. or i’ll get my legs off the ground and cross them both, as if on the floor, etc.

anyway looks like you’re on your way and it’s now just a matter of perseverance... best wishes!

and thanks again for those videos i’ll explore some more related to my own issues.

basuragomi
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by basuragomi »

Seems like there is a whole spectrum of approaches to settling down:

Stand
Lean
Partial kneel
Kneel
Sit
Squat
Recline
Lie
Hang

In my experience each one of these has drawbacks or isn't comfortable for very long. I think a good approach would be having the ability to transition between each approach seamlessly and cycle through them.

To that end, using something like a keyer and airmouse instead of keyboard + traditional mouse for computer work would be much more flexible. Maybe a VR headset with virtual desktop instead of traditional monitors as well, so nonstandard furniture wouldn't be necessary. AKA the full cyberdeck approach. VR headsets unfortunately aren't very usable yet in terms of resolution, but I'm waiting for the day they are.

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Alphaville
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Alphaville »

basuragomi wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:44 am
In my experience each one of these has drawbacks or isn't comfortable for very long. I think a good approach would be having the ability to transition between each approach seamlessly and cycle through them.
very much yes to this.

one thing my pt told me is that even standing in the best of positions for a long time will put a hurt on you. one needs to move and change frequently.

(this is why i opted for the pricey adjustable electric desk, which lets me shift heights, although ofc it’s not as optimal as it could be some day—a bit of a “comfortable prison” situation right mow.)

(and i do lie down/recline/sit on a platform a lot, which is why i favor tablets in the meantime—but tablets can give you impinged shoulders and a sore neck).

anyway i just wanted to confirm your conclusions is all, per my experience + professional advice i’ve received.

white belt
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by white belt »

I have a walking treadmill paired with a standing desk. I’d say if I’m working an 8 hour day from home, I will spend about 2-3 hours walking on it and the rest of the time standing. Walking actually feels much better on my body than standing for long periods of time. I find I can easily do web browsing and typing in word documents while walking. If a task requires extreme precision clicking (very rare), then I’ll just pause the treadmill and stand.

From what I’ve found, switching positions is really the key to whatever activity you are doing. The more total time you plan on spending in a specific position in a day, the more often you will have to switch things up to prevent repetitive strain fatigue and injuries. Spend some time standing, some walking, some sitting, standing on one leg, etc. I’ve always experienced quite a bit of discomfort standing in one spot for a long period of time and I believe it is just as awkward as sitting for a long period of time.

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Alphaville
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Alphaville »

white belt wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:48 pm
I have a walking treadmill paired with a standing desk.
my desk came with one of these:

Image

which keeps me from sustaining a stiff pose.

it’s very entertaining and works the legs but it’s not the same as a walk. more of a mild strength-balance thing.

but besides, i’d like to walk 3 hours a day!

would you mind sharing make/model of your treadmill? i’ve looked into treadmills, but no good luck so far. ended up getting a cheap crap one to survive the pandemic but being a mechanical slope it can’t be used with a desk

white belt
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by white belt »

I picked up a Lifespan TR1200-DT3 for $700 back in March. It was new but I think one generation behind from the latest because it doesn’t have Bluetooth connectivity and some other features I had no use for. It is more pricey than a regular treadmill, but it has a souped up motor and internals to deal with the extra wear that comes from using it at walking speeds. As someone who has worked for home full time since July, it already has paid for itself in terms of value for me.

I think the ERE DIY method might be to take an old or broken treadmill from Craigslist and replace some of the internals to make it better able to withstand walking speeds. I think there are a few DIY guides floating around on the web, but I went with the consumer solution since I was short on time.

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Alphaville
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Alphaville »

oh, “under desk treadmill” my new fave search term. thanks!

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Update:

My barefoot walking experiment is yielding positive results. I've been walking around my apartment every day, for about a year now, and the plantar fasciitis is much better. It's not completely gone, but better than it has been in years. I've got some pretty significant calluses on my heels and the front of my feet (next to the ball).

I pretty much use minimalist shoes, or high end hiking boots when I'm out and about now. I've got a couple pairs of custom orthotics, but they seem to quickly cause issues so I'm ditching them all and going back to the traditional insoles. Lower back pain is also much better.

The irony of this is that I've basically done the opposite of what many physical therapists recommended over the years.

I'm stoked about the progress! It's been more than a decade now, and finally something is working. Ironically, it is a free, minimalist, simple solution - walking barefoot.

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Alphaville
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Alphaville »

hah! that's great. congrats!

mathiverse
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by mathiverse »

Western Red Cedar wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:16 pm
Update:

My barefoot walking experiment is yielding positive results. I've been walking around my apartment every day, for about a year now, and the plantar fasciitis is much better. It's not completely gone, but better than it has been in years. I've got some pretty significant calluses on my heels and the front of my feet (next to the ball).
Congrats! Quick question, do you mean before you walked around in shoes when you were at home? Or in something else?

ertyu
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by ertyu »

i recommend flip flops outside (in informal conditions) too. i really want vibrams but currently the only option for getting them is ordering them from amazon uk and paying through the nose for shipping and customs duty. so if a pair finds their way to our second hand stores, i'll have one, if not, oh well.

Frita
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Frita »

@WRC
This reminds me of the hippies and sailing bohemians one meets in the Carribean who are barefoot 24/7. Every chat seems to include the the number of shoeless years.

Anyway, I think not wearing shoes in the house is a good idea. (This is part of my souse’s culture and took awhile to adapt.). Things stay cleaner with no exposure to chemicals and whatever else people step on. It sounds like healthier feet is another pro. Glad you solved the PF.
ertyu wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:37 am
i recommend flip flops outside (in informal conditions) too. i really want vibrams but currently the only option for getting them is ordering them from amazon uk and paying through the nose for shipping and customs duty. so if a pair finds their way to our second hand stores, i'll have one, if not, oh well.
Agreed, flip flops are a great alternative to barefoot outside. Once they are molded to one’s feet, they are the best. (I admit to putting layers of duct tape on the soles’s holes to try and get some more wear.)

My spouse loves the Vibram soles on Clark’s shoes, especially for city walking. It does seem that they don’t wear out but crack in the same spot so they are unusable.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Western Red Cedar »

@Mathiverse - I've been able to work from home full time since last March. That means I'm able to go barefoot for 12-16 hours per day on a typical weekday. My office culture was pretty laid back, but I don't think it would have been cool to wander around without shoes on. I lived in Asia for a couple years and also adopted the practice of no shoes in the house.

@Frita - I lived in Asia for a couple years and also adopted the practice of no shoes in the house. It's great. We also try to avoid carpet and only go with hardwoods and rugs if possible to keep things clean.

Hopefully I'll be able to break out some flip flops this summer :)

mathiverse
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by mathiverse »

Ah that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the reply!

Salathor
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Re: Walking, standing, sitting, lying -- more natural approaches?

Post by Salathor »

We're a barefoot (indoors) house and it's pretty rough visiting our inlaws who keep their shoes on inside. We've got babies and it's rough to think of all the gross stuff they're rolling in on the carpet :-p For outside walking I'm usually in flip flops for anything under 2 miles and hiking boots/real shoes for anything over, or for bike riding. I like the idea of barefoot outside but then I don't like the idea of tracking dirt onto the rugs. I don't see myself stopping to wash my feet every time I come in otherwise.

I'm definitely a "no sitting in chairs unless necessary" guy, too. We're sitting indian-style/crosslegged most of the time if we're at home, unless actively working at the computer or eating dinner. I've been trying to talk my wife into a floor-sitting dining table, and I think we're getting close to acceptance!

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