Is doing your own car mechanics "normal"?

[TopHatFox]

I shared to my dad that I wanted to change my own car oil so I can learn and he freaked out. I'm pissed. Daddy Youtube is where it's at. Like, I'm not changing the rack & pinon or the transmission.

Makes me wonder though, just like personal finance, or bike repair, or cooking, I'm assuming car repair is yet another thing that either never gets done or gets outsourced to professionals? (Of varying quality, usually bad quality)

[C40]

Most people don't change their oil.. and most people don't consider changing your own oil strange, at all. Your dad is just being weird. Does he have some objective concern, like you making a mess with spilled oil?

It is very much like cooking and those other things. Much better to do yourself. Even more-so than other things that take more skill. Because changing your oil yourself and doing it perfectly is so easy - but - so many shop technicians still manage to screw it up.

[Alphaville]

Must be a class/occupation prejudice? DIY car repair is extremely common among working people in the USA. O’Reilly’s, Pepboys, Napa, CarQuest, Autozone, etc etc, are a testament to that. Also, engineering types and car hobbyists love to wrench.

Oil change can be a mess if you spill, and you have to recycle at the right place, but otherwise it’s practically a no-brainer.

Ok, takes a leeeeeeetle bit of brains to not get smashed by your vehicle, and to not burn yourself, and to apply the right torques, but it’s extremely simple provided you have a stable dry surface and the right tools.

Trying to change oil on a muddy driveway in the middle of winter is objectively harder, so in those months I’d buy my choice of oil and filter at Walmart and take them to my indie mechanic for a nominal fee.

As for bigger repairs: it’s a skill set that takes time and experience to acquire, not just to repair, but more importantly, to prevent inflicting damage to your vehicle.

But it’s good to learn and get better at it. Potentially it can have huge payoffs, thousands and tens of thousands of dollars over a lifetime. Maybe even more as it can prevent serial auto shopping with all the interest charges. And even if you only perform basic maintenance, learning more will make you a better car buyer, and a better car user, and a better customer of mechanic shops (less likely to get scammed). E.g. paying $100 for a pair of windshield wipers, lol.

Again, make sure not to damage your car or smash your ribcage lol. Basic precautions.

Tools will cost you, but they can be rented. And jackstands or ramps (I recommend jackstands) will serve you for a lot more than just oil changes—greasing the chassis, replacing brake pads, doing front end work... and of course basic inspections.

Consumers tend to look at cars as blocks of shiny paint, not as the sum of all the intricate mechanisms that make things run underneath.

I don’t miss having a car, but I do miss wrenching.

[Sclass]

I don’t think the average person in the US does much of their own work anymore. At Autozone I see people getting free assistance with light bulb and wiper installation.

Most people I know lease and the maintenance is included. I think they spend in excess of $10,000 a year on their car expense which has mechanical maintenance factored into the payment. You can save a lot of money if you buy a good used car on Craigslist and fix its on going issues yourself.

Go for it THF. YouTube is your friend. Get some cheap tools at Harbor Freight to start out. Get a beater car you aren’t afraid to mess up. The more trashy it is the more experience you’ll get. Just make sure it has good bones.

Oil changes are actually a small money saver. They’ll get you started but it is the bigger jobs like brakes, timing belts, emissions and HVAC that will save you the big bucks. The good thing about oil changes is they’ll boost your confidence and they’ll eliminate the opportunities for an unscrupulous mechanic to over repair your car at great expense to you.

[TopHatFox]

Agreed, tbh my parents are poor, so anything they do, I should probably do the opposite and teach them to do the opposite...

While it has good bones, since this car has 70K miles and was bought cheaper than the individual kbb price, I should probably also:

1. Change the transmission oil/filter as well
2. Check and consider replacing the coolant and brake fluid.
3. Looks like it has a timing belt rather than chain, so that should be fine.
4. My check-out mechanic said the brake pads are at 70-80%, so that should be good
5. Get two new rear tires (dunno which ones yet) and fill up all tires to appropriate PSI
6. Get a professional alignment of wheels since the DIY string-method seems imprecise at best
7. I do hear some groaning when I turn the steering wheel to the left, and the steering wheel seems a little stiff (dammit), so I may need to hire a mechanic to replace the part of the electric power steering or other component that's causing it (Most expensive repair of the list unfortunately $$$)
8. The automatic lock button on the driver door doesn't work, but all the automatic windows work, so I'm guessing the fuse that protects the door lock circuit is blown and needs to be replaced.
9. The windows need silicon applied to them so they go down even smoother, and the driver side window has some scratches that can be smoothed down. I believe the windows all have (legal-strength) tinting, but that's only on the inside. May as well pass a smooth polish to the windshield so the wipers operate even smoother. Put water or some of that Rainx stuff for windshield wipers.
10. The car has some paint scratches that can be buffed out, and a tiny ding or two that can maybe be removed by hiring someone
11. The automatic passenger-side mirror isn't working, so I may need to replace its wiring, or maybe the wire isn't connected at all. Investigate.
12. There's a scratch and shit paint-job on one of the doors, so maybe I can buff it and re-paint better with a kit, or just replace the handle.

After that, I believe the car may as well be new.

Good news - I raided the cluster-fuck of a tool shed, and now I have steel jack stands & a steel jack, a nifty mechanic creeper-rolly thing, some 'Merica wrenches (but I think Toyotas use metric since they're Japanese), an automatic waxer/polisher, a little metal brush to clean the battery terminals, synthetic motor oil that matches the Corolla's recommendation, WD-40, emergency battery jump-kit, an empty fuel container, a car battery tester, an air compressor, and some other stuff to start out.

[Alphaville]

wow!

this sounds great but really quick:

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/wh ... -motor-oil

i just woke up so will leave less important replies for later

[Alphaville]

also: re: tires. it’s not an all-wheel drive vehicle, is it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere

ETA: more awake now, just noticed “corolla,” which not awd, ok to replace tires per axle then

anyway, what year? curious...

[Laura Ingalls]

About 30 years ago my late father sat on his deck with a beer and talked me through changing the oil on my old car. I have both diy and paid for oil changes since. I do think it’s an “adulting” skill as is bike repair and knowing how to use public transportation. Your father seems defensive about his lack of knowledge.

[Sclass]

this car has great bones. Reading your list you can just drive it as is.

1. Change the transmission oil/filter as well
Easy to do with simple tools and YouTube. Risks - you get some debris into transmission or you don’t properly seal things up. Be mindful of your work. Penalty of failure is high. Proceed slowly.

2. Check and consider replacing the coolant and brake fluid.
Takes five minutes to check. Again YouTube to change. Same risks, make sure to check your fluid levels after your done to make sure it is sealed. Flushing brakes needs to be done without introducing air into your lines. Be very vigilant your first time and pump your pedal in the driveway before you drive off to make sure you have solid brakes.

3. Looks like it has a timing belt rather than chain, so that should be fine.
Ok, I think you have a chain. And, on that particular car, Toyota had problems with the chain tensioner. So while people think they’re good with a chain, the tensioner can fail and you basically have the same grenade failure as a slipped belt. My BIL had this happen on his Matrix of about the same vintage. It was totally unexpected. Do some research online and see what people are saying about your car. You may not be ok on this.

6. Get a professional alignment of wheels since the DIY string-method seems imprecise at best

Agreed. String is hard and it is a skill. For toe I use two free HF tools tape measures and two thumb tacks and I get great results. For camber and caster I use an SPI Fastrax. Not a beginner fix. I was always told I couldn’t do this precisely at home but that’s just wrong. Autocrossers taught me how to do this trackside in twenty minutes. You just have to learn the knobs. To learn how to do this right I had to do it wrong a few times. When you get new tires, get it aligned. Sadly on a corolla all they’ll do is front toe which can be done at home with tape measures and tacks.

7. I do hear some groaning when I turn the steering wheel to the left, and the steering wheel seems a little stiff (dammit),
Watch a bunch of YouTube videos and read forums. If your steering rack has failed or your tie rod ends are bad at 70k then others surely are complaining and fixing

8. The automatic lock button on the driver door doesn't work, but all the automatic windows work, so I'm guessing the fuse that protects the door lock circuit is blown and needs to be replaced.

Check the fuse. But... It could be a number of things. Food in the button. Bad door lock motor. Bad fuse. Bad central door lock controller. Start with the easy things. Again, check online to see what other people with your car have experienced.

11. The automatic passenger-side mirror isn't working, so I may need to replace its wiring, or maybe the wire isn't connected at all. Investigate.

On my cars this was usually caused by drink spilled on the button. Disassembly and cleaning fixes. One car the maid “borrowed” and broke the mirror off. She didn’t tell us and I think she had a relative replace the mirror. When I debugged it I found the wire hadn’t been plugged in inside the door because it was hard to reach without taking off the interior door panel. It’s a simple system to debug. Just start at one side of the circuit and work your way back.

After that, I believe the car may as well be new.
—and the beautiful thing is it doesn’t need to be. If you drive a beater and you aren’t a perfectionist you’ll save a lot of money.

Good news - I raided the cluster-fuck of a tool shed, and now I have steel jack stands & a steel jack,

And this is the best yet. Safety safety safety. Glad to hear you have jackstands. No repair is worth getting crushed. My tip in another thread was buy a set of inexpensive stands...they can save your life.

[2Birds1Stone]

Since oil changes are $15 with a coupon in NY, I never bothered. But I've done plenty of larger repairs and maintenance on my vehicles over the years. From thermostats to crankshaft sensors.

[flying_pan]

Historically, a lot of people maintained their vehicles. It is definitely less common nowadays, but I think it is still popular.

As @2B1S said, you can get oil change for really cheap + they can inspect other parts (not some Lube chain, though), so a lot of people nether bother. You can do it, it is a good way to start car maintenance, but you won't save much. You'll save on other things, though. There are tons of small things which you can replace relatively easy, like all sensors, thermostat, spark plugs & wires, alternator, etc. These things will save you a lot. For most of them, all you need is a socket set and torque wrench.

Brakes and suspension (some parts) are also good for saving money, but you'll need more tools (namely, jack). However, they pay off for themselves after 1 job. To do work on the engine, you have to like it, otherwise it'll simply take too much time. Transmission is not recommended to tinker with, but if you have a manual, clutch and cylinders are fine to replace. Some things, like PCM, impossible to do without special equipment (they rarely fail, though; mine did and I went to a dealership after I exhausted all other theories).

Overall, I think it boils down how much you enjoy doing it. I started not because of the money, I was just curious to understand how different mechanisms work together, and it is interesting to "debug" the problem, maybe because I am a software developer. If you have a solid car (and it sounds you got one, great job!), then it will stay a good deal even if servicing by a mechanic.

[TopHatFox]

It’s a Corolla 2015 L, so no CVT, cruise control, or other stuff that can break

[bryan]

2. Check and consider replacing the coolant and brake fluid.
Takes five minutes to check. Again YouTube to change. Same risks, make sure to check your fluid levels after your done to make sure it is sealed. Flushing brakes needs to be done without introducing air into your lines. Be very vigilant your first time and pump your pedal in the driveway before you drive off to make sure you have solid brakes.

When I did my brakes/rotors I used a ball-check collector thing (like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F9XHVKA), worked great but had to take my time because each brake seemed to go at a different rate (do a few pumps at a time then go check the bottle). Also, my brake fluid reservoir was really difficult to see the fluid level and I ended up sucking air at one point.. had to go buy another pint of fluid and flush that line all the way (luckily it was a front line).

[Alphaville]

It’s a Corolla 2015 L, so no CVT, cruise control, or other stuff that can break

oh, everything breaks lol, but manual gears are great

and that car is NEW afaic. my last motor vehicle was a 2002 chevy truck xD
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re: brake fluid, my old mechanic didn’t have the machine for it and would send me to firestone to get it done.

rotors/pads however are pretty straighforward.

seconded also in staying clear of the transmission until you’re expert. start with basic maintenance & build up slowly. again, remember: first, do no harm. i’ve seen some diy repairs go awry. catastrophe is possible. so try to learn systematically and gradually.

chilton manuals used to be pretty good, not sure if they still exist or they have them for your vehicle. last one i had was a haynes which was okay. but even in the age of youtube they’re useful because they’re methodical and there are experts that stand behind them.

i guess what applies to this bike repair book applies to those as well (i just watched that recently, so it’s fresh in my mind). chec it out: https://youtu.be/CBJtM7K-MaA

now if you’re planning to keep the car long term, finding the shop repair manual would be gold. they can be pricey and/or hard to find but worth it in the long term.

car repair is pretty popular in the rural area where i used to live, so i’m shocked to see it’s now becoming less common elsewhere. weird...

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eta: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1620923637

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eta, a: firestone has “lifetime” wheel alignment, it think it’s like $190 for as long as you own the car. can be a good return on your money if you refuse the repairs they will suggest every time you visit.

[Alphaville]

I should add, since you're facing front end fixes (noisy steering), the way to proceed is:

1. Take car to shop for "wheel alignment." Get the lifetime version.

2. Car goes in, returns with a partial alignment and/or a repair ticket

3. Read ticket with diagnostic, say "oh! bbl..."

4. Perform front end repair yourself (it's not rocket science)

5. Return for wheel alignment that must be performed after front end repair anyway.

I got the lifetime version while I was living in a ranch with a long dirt road and alignments were frequent. Ended up replacing the whole front end, not in a single shot but part by part, because money: tie rod ends, ball joints, pitman, idler arm... Which meant, of course: alignment every time.

Maybe it's different in Florida, unless you run into many potholes. But anyway, well aligned wheels are good for your tires, and these lifetime deals have no limit as I recall. Wanna take it every other week? Sure...

What else... good gas. Don't "save" money on cheap gas. Not worth it. Consumer Reports publishes a list of quality gas brands every so often. Go to those. Go to a gas station that looks like they maintain their tanks and aren't leaking gas into the ground (and the ground leaking who knows what into the gas...)

And don't let the gas go empty unless you want to choke your filters.

Same with good oil. Worth the extra money to prevent busting your engine.

Air filters also, check them often and buy a good brand for your model.

For good smell and AC efficiency, replace the cabin air filters. When I bought my old truck it got diagnosed with "failing AC" at the dealer that inspected it. Filter replacement fixed that right up lol.

[TopHatFox]

After I inflated the rear-left tire of the Corolla, the groaning noise has gone away. Now it's just a slight whirring noise whenever I turn the steering wheel. I did some research, and it might just be that the intermediate steering column (the part that connects the upper steering column/steering wheel to the power steering rack and pinion below) just needs some lubricant. That would be awesome, as that's a $5 repair. Will do as you recommend once finals are over.

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BEST WAY TO EXCHANGE EXPENSIVE FORD VAN FOR TOYOTA COROLLA, TOYOTA MATRIX, OR SCION xB/xD?

Expensive Ford Van Needs to Go: Dad bought an expensive Ford Van, and he still owes 20K on it. It was bought new for an even more egregious price. The monthly insurance on it is like $250, not to mention that its gas mileage is poorer than a sedan or hatchback at 21/29 compared to 29/37 for a Corolla (figures estimated). Parents owe 150k on their mortgage and only make a combined 50k/yr, so this car is unacceptable if they want to save anything.

But to What Should We Change it For: Dad is okay changing it for a used Scion xD/xB or maybe even a Toyota Matrix, since its seat go all the way down. He'll probably be more opposed to getting a Corolla since for some reason he really likes a van. His reasoning for the van is that he sometimes uses it to carry the occasional construction item from Home Depot for home projects, or to return dogs we take care of to their owner.

A Sedan or Hatchback Seems Fine: My counter is that you can easily fit a mix of 3 dogs in the back seat of a Corolla, and definitely do that on the Matrix or xB/xD. As far as getting construction materials from Home Depot, most materials fit in a car. The only ones that might not is sheetrock, 2x4's, plywood, or other large items. Even these can probably be strapped to a top rack of a sedan or hatchback. Hell, it may even be possible to get a sedan or hatchback to haul a light-weight trailer with those materials. He doesn't work in construction or any other blue-collar field, so there's no real reason to own a van here aside from just wanting one (which is costing our fam's finances dearly).

How to Change Car While Minimizing Transaction Loses: I'm not sure how to make the transfer to minimize losses. I'd imagine that even if we sell the van as individuals, we'll lose a few grand since it was bought new and is now being sold used. Hell, after we sell it, we'll probably still owe the loan company thousands. So, on top of what we lost for depreciation since it was bought new, if we sell it at 15k, we'll need to give the loan company 5k to satisfy the loan.

How to Change Van to Car With Limited Parking Spots, we don't have an additional car spot. So in making the change from the van to another vehicle, I'm thinking it makes the most sense to first buy the used vehicle, then sell the van. That way, dad always has transportation to and from his job. Where can we store the additional vehicle as we're trying to sell the van?

Would a Trade-in be of any Help, Or Just a Massive Loss in Money: I'm not sure how trade-ins work, but if it has anything to do with dealers, I can already guess it's going to be a pain in the ass, with me and the fam losing.

[Alphaville]

$250/mo for *insurance* on a van made my head explode. what in the...

anywyay, any wagon should fit 3 dogs. or a honda fit with flat seats. money moustache loves his scion...

i liked the old washable backs of the honda pilots. and im the only person in the world who likes the now discontinued prius v, but that was an extremely versatile car: one could probably live in it. it was $30k new so i never bought it.

as for contruction materials: home depot itself rents pickups for $20! why pay $250 *insurance alone* for the idea that maybe some day.... just.... wow. most expensive sheetrock ever.

you’re doing a very good thing for your family.

ps. trade-in is a scam. private sale for maximum cash is the way to go. must take precautions to avoid getting jacked though.

and yeah your van might be underwater but *$250/mo insurance wtf^

oh yeah this is why i didnt buy a new car last time: insurance was gonna be more than the payment lololol.

[bmjohnson35]

It's completely normal. I have been doing my own maintenance and repairs on my cars since a teenager. I have no formal schooling on the subject and simply learned organically over time. The internet makes it even easier than when I started. Their are several benefits to doing your own maintenance:

1. Savings.
2. Personal control over the quality of work.
3. Being able to deal with breakdowns when professional help is not close or unavailable.
4. Sense of accomplishment.

BJ

[SavingWithBabies]

I change my own oil. It is a bit messy but I prefer synthetic and quality filters and then change it once per year (we don't drive that much). I try to time it so I'm not changing it during the winter as that gets old quick. Otherwise, it's basically down to a short task that I try not to rush because spills suck. And then you still have to get rid of the old oil, clean up, etc. So it takes a while but for the price of paying someone else, or a bit less if I shop for deals on the oil/filter, I get synthetic oil on my schedule. Works for me. And I do other work too -- most recently, I did the timing belt on our 4.7l Toyota SUV and it's a big job but it went like clockwork with the right tools. Plus I could fix some long term issues that needed to be taken care of at the same time plus go above and beyond and replace the water pump (thankfully, was starting to go) and timing belt tensioner, rollers, etc. Car work can be incredibly frustrating if something is rusted on (more of a problem up here in the rust belt) or you don't have the right tool or directions/guides. But Youtube has made it so much better, you can typically find dealer manuals (sometimes not technically legally) and even scan tools (I'm waiting on my tool that will let me scan more of the Toyota systems so I can start to debug why an issue -- I can't get the ABS/break error codes over normal ODBC tools) and there are often forums dedicated to makes/models with tagged threads for DIY tasks and work arounds for when you don't have special tools (but some I buy when it makes sense as some make a potentially dicey operation simple and you can always "rent" the tool by reselling it on eBay).

But I enjoy this kind of work. It does take some aptitude and care. Like getting torque wrenches, developing a feel for how much you are torquing if you're not using the torque wrench (not something to be afraid of -- just have to be careful not to crank too hard on things) and troubleshooting skills. All fun things if you don't need it done now for $0.

[TopHatFox]

After reading some more, I think I'll get *myself* a manual transmission Corolla/Corolla Hatchback. I think the manual transmission cars last a whole lot longer and are easier to fix. Safety comparisons with automatics don't seem statistically significant, but at least standard transmission cars force you to pay attention. I don't really like living in dense cities either, so that should be fine. I got a Haynes Manual for the Corolla my mom got and that's been super useful. I guess the question will be how to actually find a used manual transmission car as they aren't exactly common in the US.

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@Alphaville, yeah man, the entire car market is full of pitfalls. Car getting stolen during sale, bribed mechanics, dealers that won't let you take a used car to get inspected, individual sellers hiding major problems in a car, aftermarket car parts causing more problems than OEM parts, OEM parts that weren't good to begin with. I can see why most people fail in choosing a car that sets them up for financial success tbh. Getting it right requires a lot of study, experience, and people skills.

From everything I've learned thus far, the best way to do it is:

1. Identify reliable car brand and model that fits your needs (needs which are probably smaller than you think)
2. Find that car in the individual-seller market
3. Read books on car mechanics and thoroughly inspect the car from bumper to bumper
4. Thoroughly inspect the car seller, the title, and the VIN of the car
5. Have the car taken to a highly-rated, non-chain mechanic and give the mechanic a thorough list of things you want him to inspect
6. Use whatever you find to reduce the price
7. Purchase the vehicle and transfer the title (purchase in specific way if you don't want it registered in your name for privacy)
8. Continue to accrue car maintenance knowledge and change fluids, worn parts, and take to mechanic for bigger issues

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I doubt most people are willing to acquire the knowledge and skill required to do the above eight steps. In fact, they often fail on step 1, by choosing a car that is out of their budget or inappropriate to the task (e.g. a Ford F-150 to drive to the office and back)