Owning Small Business Best Way to ERE?

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jeremymday
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Post by jeremymday »

Maybe this doesn't seem like your idea of retirement, but wouldn't have a small business be a great way to ERE.
Be debt free, have low monthly financial commitments...
But not rely on the capitalist model so much? Be more self reliant. Rely on the community for support, and give back to the community?
Make as much or as little as you need? Work the hours you want? Do the work you want? Get satisfaction out of helping your neighbor and get paid to boot?
I feel like more people thinking about ERE should be talking about self employment? No?
Cheers,

Jeremy


celliott
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Post by celliott »

Well, I'll give you the highlights of my story:
I dropped out of high school during my senior year only to pass my California high school proficiency exam at 29 years of age because I wanted to take a correspondence Paralegal course for which I was rejected because I had no high school diploma. Up to this point I hadn't needed a diploma because I had already benefited from the role model of a family whose dad was a self-employed handyman/janitorial business owner.
I was intrigued by the freedom he had to make his own hours. I had some full-time jobs, e.g. building crop-dusting aircraft from the ground up (absolutely loved this work) or being a tune-up mechanic at a tire and battery shop, or being a “Innoculator Technician” for a mushroom spawning company, etc. But those jobs all felt like jail. 8 hours a day in the same building day in, day out. I kept thinking about the freedom of the handyman.
I started a janitorial business on a motorcycle (imagine carrying a bucket of cleaners and a broom while riding to my first account – a $68.00 per month small USDA office that took 45 minutes to clean once a week).
I came to appreciate that basically all knowledge is available in books. I was directed to a great book helping me to market, estimate and bid janitorial contracts, understand customer service, and basically run a small business.
My little business grew. By the time I was 23 I was pulling in 6k per month part time. I sold that company and semi-retired for a year. Skipping ahead to save digital ink….I later, started another janitorial company that netted me 7k per month working less than 3 hours per week. I moved to another state to do volunteer work. While there I bought my first house with cash.
Reading, I was intrigued by real estate investing. I invested in about a dozen different books, read plenty on internet forums and websites, etc and did my first flip at the end of 2003. That learning experiment netted me 13k. In 2004 I started buying up houses and decided to keep them for a new part-time residential real estate rental business. I really enjoyed that immensely. However, I had to learn how to estimate values (CMA’s) study mortgage loans, increase my construction experience beyond that I learned from the handyman role model I spoke of earlier, market properties, etc, etc…
We now own 8 properties. Four of them are paid off. I just paid off my house (which I purchased 15 months ago) 2 days ago.
We are semi-retired (although we have been working the business more this last year) and most would consider us financially independent at this point (I’m 49) I consider us to be frugal to a reasonable degree. We have used our "freedom" to travel and do volunteer work in Costa Rica (lived there 3 years), Colombia, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Panama, and the Dominican Republic.
Having said that, we never aspired to be rich. We could’ve become rich quite easily, but we’re just didn't dedicate ourselves to that end. We’ve kept life simple so that we would not be enslaved to an 9-5 lifestyle. We have only ever worked part-time since I was 20 years old. I got into the whole consumer-oriented lifestyle early on enjoying what was for me new-found wealth. If I wanted it, I bought it (usually on credit) I came to see it as another form of slavery limiting my options just the same as a full-time job does. I opted out. I hate debt, although I now know how to use it as an effective tool (the so-called “good debt”). We found our volunteer work far more rewarding and our financial decisions were a means to that end.
So, yes, being self-employed has always been the better choice for us as it suits our life choices quite well. However, it's not a "bed of roses" either. Employees often cause the greatest headaches imaginable. I could write a book highlighting those nightmares. Life was simple when we did our own cleaning. But to achieve the freedom we desired, we had to hire out. You also have not just one boss, but every client/customer is your boss. In the early stages of starting a business you have few choices. However, as we grew, we fired the customers that were simply unreasonable or too demanding. You also are protected in that rather than have all your eggs in one basket, you have many sources of income. In essence, you're diversified and better protected to weather the occasional economic storms. You may lose some income, but you'll almost never lose it all. In facts, we've even been know to grow during recessions because we are good at what we do. But we run our business like we run our personal finances: We almost never go into debt to finance anything. On the rare occasions that we have, we use it sparingly and pay it off quickly.


S
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Post by S »

Small-business ownership seems to be working well for my dad. Most of his life he floated around doing interesting jobs like "live-aboard yacht crew", "seaplane tour pilot", or "charter jet pilot in India" but he didn't save money from these. About 3 years ago he found himself living in a small US city in the middle of nowhere. He likes to go out to the bar and needed a ride home but there wasn't a taxi service, so he bought a used police cruiser and found a guy to drive it. Fast forward 3 years and he owns 30ish taxis in 4 towns. Apparently the good money is not in driving around looking for fares, but in "non-emergency medical transport". Basically, Medicare pays him to drive people to their doctors appointments in the large city a few hours away. He is making lots of money, but currently re-investing it back in the business (more cabs). He bought a garage which is marginally profitable by itself, but now he gets free work done on his cars when the mechanics aren't working on someone else's.
Of course, the downside is he works a lot of hours right now. Like celliot said, managing employees seems to be one of the hardest parts. The plan is to eventually sell the business or find some employees capable of running it for him so he can go back to floating around. Working like crazy for a few years so you can be free to do what you want the rest of your life... sounds like ERE to me?


tjt
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Post by tjt »

@jeremy - You touched on my ERE plan. I run a small online business with my wife, that drives about 5 hours per month in effort, and nets about $1K in profit per month. Of that, we pay ourselves $500 per month. You can look at this 2 ways.
First - It's a nice return on time. Basically it's $100 per hour.
Second - It's not much in the way of supporting a family of 4.
However, it works great with the idea of ERE. Our math right now is that we can get our spending down to $3000 per month with our house already paid for. But with something like this income, rather than needing to get our expected returns up to $3000/month based on 3% real return, we now only need to get it up to $2500. That's a huge difference in assets required.
Plus the business started as a fun hobby and I still enjoy it. My wife does the parts I don't enjoy (procuring inventory, shipping inventory) and I do the web development, SEO, and R&D which keeps me interested.


JasonR
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Post by JasonR »

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George the original one
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Post by George the original one »

Not everyone is cut out to run their own business. I discovered I wasn't, primarily because I'm horrible at selling. Marketing, now that I can do, but the actual selling is a different matter.
Work as much or as little as you want? No, that's a myth until you've built up a business with trustworthy employees. You're at the beck & call of your customers until then.
Self-employment taxes take another bite out of the profit unless you can structure the company in a way that is like being a landlord, where your income is considered an investment rather than work.
And, finally, I'm much happier in pursuing my interests without having to think about how to monetize the results.


celliott
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Post by celliott »

@JasonR
Here is the best starter book I know of:
Inside the Janitorial Business by Frederick R. Massey
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Janitorial ... 0942144023


akratic
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Post by akratic »

I tried the small business path before I tried ERE. I tried selling iPhone apps, ebooks, t-shirts, and a software as a service IT website.
In 2010 my business made a profit of $18,000, which was higher than my expenses. I guess you could call this financial independence, but actually I hate the business, and look forward to shutting it down. The business requires me to run around doing tasks I don't enjoy like processing purchase orders and sending invoices, it requires me to spend days dealing with credit card processors and banks, it requires me to check my email every day and reply to support emails, and I have to keep improving the products and putting time into the business. Despite attempts to automate things, it's a far, far cry from passive.
I had this idea that I could just set things up, and then I'd be free. It didn't work out that way for me. It took me 1.5 years to get to the point where my small business is profitable, where I can make $18k/yr, but have to tether myself to a computer, and improving the products indefinitely, etc. If I had a more successful business, I could hire people to do the tasks I don't enjoy, and I could hire people to deal with the paperwork and complexity that hiring people entails...
In contrast, I've been working on ERE about 1.5 years now, and my investment income theoretically covers about 50% of my expenses these days.
For me, five years on the ERE path basically guarantees freedom for the rest of my life. In contrast, five years on the self-employment path could have led to anything from wild success with millions in the bank, to complete and utter failure with nothing to show for it but life lessons. If I had to guess where I'd have ended up continuing on the self-employment path, though, it would have been a steady income, say $50k a year, but lots of headaches, and maybe more freedom than a 9-5er has, but way less than someone who is retired.
The are some amazing self-employment success stories, but there are a lot more failures that you don't hear about.


JasonR
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Post by JasonR »

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Koogie
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Post by Koogie »

Owning a small business is the ONLY thing that is allowing me to retire before 40. Without a worldbeating idea, winning the lottery or being a virtual ascetic like Jacob, not sure how anyone else could do it.
That said, it is more often than not a lifestyle defining choice. It sucks in all your time, working and free, and is an emotional rollercoaster a lot of the time.


mikeBOS
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Post by mikeBOS »

five years on the self-employment path could have led to anything from wild success with millions in the bank, to complete and utter failure with nothing to show for it but life lessons.
This is my issue with the business route. If you want to be a businessman, growing a small, sustainable local business could be great fun, even if it ultimately fails or only brings in marginal income. But the goal of financial independence, for me, isn't just to be free of a 9-5 and a boss, it's to be free of working for a living entirely.
Owning a low-overhead part-time or full-time business, where you don't need to take on any debt or make any large investments in equipment, sounds like a nice way to help get to early retirement. But as long as you're still running it you're still encumbered and not quite retired.
Businesses that are 99% automated where you only need to put in an hour or so a week over the internet excepted.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

I agree with mike, Akratic, and George. My plan is the set up at least a minimum of completely passive income and then possibly start a business basically as a hobby. If it turns out that I'm "Cut out" for it, and it succeeds wildly, then great. If it fails, then I'll gain wisdom but lose little (I'd probably choose something with very low capital startup needs)


Piper
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Post by Piper »

I just quit a job where the owner/boss considered himself "retired". He worked in that small office 6 days a week and spent 5 of those days micromanaging his employees. The perks for him were going out to dinner every night with an ATM card on the payroll account and not caring if the paychecks bounced. Didn't sound like a nice life to me.
The only self-employment that I truly enjoy is I like to go on backpack trips by myself and then come home and write about them on my blog. I get about $300 a year in ad revenue from this. If only I could live on it, that would be the best ERE.
My plan now is to work a traditional job for a while and save up as much as I can. I'm an introvert. I don't like selling. I don't like marketing, either. I think there's too much selling and marketing and chasing of money altogether in this country. I just want to go to my job, do it well, spend my mental energy on my skills--using, developing them--and then spend my free time hiking in the wilderness. With any luck and a good dose of frugality and hunkering down I can get enough savings to make that $300 a year self-employment gig work out somehow.


celliott
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Post by celliott »

Well, in our case we will have it managed by a younger partner who has a 33% stake in the S-Corp.
We'll draw 66% of the profit in distributions amounting to approximately $3,600 to $4,000 per month. We could do that now, but we are still helping her organize and grow a bit more before we take off some time next year.
If I want to help with any other marketing or bookkeeping aspect online, I'll draw a wage in addition to the distribution of profits. It's all good. I've done it before, but never with a part owner. That's a much more secure arrangement as they have a lot of skin in the game. She's the next generation about 20 years younger than us, so we should be good to go for the foreseeable future. We'll live on a fraction of those distributions while we invest the rest in dividend producing shares while we wait for the final mortgages to payoff on our rental real estate.


jeremygross
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Post by jeremygross »

I'm interested in hearing about the different types of businesses people are running! I'm especially interested in learning about side businesses that can be run during non-typical working hours (before / after work, and on weekends).
My wife and I have quite a bit of student loan debt and I believe creating additional income is the only way out to reach ERE.
From this thread I see:

>rental properties

>janitorial business

>taxi services / non-emergency medical transport

>selling ebooks / apps
Any thoughts on this?


tjt
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Post by tjt »

My business is an online jewelry retailer. The inventory is small and mobile (our entire inventory fits in a gym bag), and startup costs were minimal since we started with a single product line and the store runs on open source software.
I enjoy programming and learning SEO for fun. If you don't enjoy those things then I wouldn't recommend this for you.
We just have to keep inventory up, ship products, and answer occasional emails. I could probably make it bigger and make more money, but I honestly like it the way it is right now.


Robert Muir
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Post by Robert Muir »

My business is being the computer guy for small businesses. Pays very well, but it doesn't meet your outside normal working hours criteria. However, if you become good at removing malware, fixing OS problems and performing personalized training, there is definitely a market out there for after-hours personal and sole-prop clients.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

@jeremy - I'll be the devil's advocate and say that maybe less people should pursue small businesses as a way to FI (there'll probably never be a RE from the business.) simply because business start ups are touted as a way to easy money while in reality it's probably some of the hardest money you can earn, especially after taxes.
Of course, just the right amount of people should pursue small businesses, namely those who are cut out for it.
I don't know what the average income is for a small business owner and in any case it is hard to measure, since some 95% of businesses fail. Hard to say whether that just means that the entrepreneur tries again or gives up, so it's hard to know how 95% of entrepreneurs are doing. In any case, the dispersion of business income is bound to be a lot higher than it is for employee income.
"Make as much or as little as you need? Work the hours you want? Do the work you want? Get satisfaction out of helping your neighbor and get paid to boot?"
I've done a few different kinds of businesses and in my case(s) these things only hold in theory. You can certainly make as little as you need, but making as much as you want is a lot harder. I'd certainly like to make $10,000/month on ERE, but how? I have the worst kind of market---selling information to smart tightwads. (More money in selling "get out of debt"-brochures to the financially challenged.) When I was doing editing, I calculated that I could potentially earn $120k/year. However, first this would mean acquiring more clients (which is also a form of work) and second it would mean working 12 hours a day. Do the work you want? Sure, but "work you love" also comes packaged with work you hate or don't want... for instance, I don't like the sales and management part of the business. Sure, I could outsource this but as it is, those are also the most profitable parts of a business (they are yet to be replaced by friendly robots) and so outsourcing ain't cheap."


Redsted1
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Post by Redsted1 »

I own a bar in Seattle currently and have around 15 employees (myself included). I can completely identify with what people are saying above--working for yourself and not having to be stuck in a cubicle on the 15th floor somewhere is an amazing feeling. I also now have equity in a business that can be leveraged to make me more money. Even though margins in my business can be razor thin, my place makes a good profit for most of the year, and in the months it doesn't we are still in the black.
The downfalls...I have only owned the bar for 7 months so there is still a ton of debt to be paid down, as to be expected. I also am working 80+ hours a week right now to make sure it gets where it needs to be. The silver lining of this is that I am only 26 so I figured while I'm young it's ok to log a few extra hours to ensure an easier road in my 30's. I have friends doing that many hours in law school right now...what's the difference, right? Also, if I stay on track with my debt schedules I should be well into the six figure income range in 3-4 years, so that's a major plus as well. I can definitely echo the statements above that employees are generally a huge headache, as well as tax laws, labor laws, and taxes in general. Also, dealing with any government entity is a burden--the liquor board, L & I, health department...it doesn't end. I'm lucky, though, because I'm in this with my brother so we will lighten each other's load.
Overall...I'd say it's worth it. If this idea fails, I'd figure out a different business to get into. I'd rather retire at 50+ on my terms than work for the man and retire earlier, but that's just me.


JasonR
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Post by JasonR »

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