ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
Scott 2
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Scott 2 »

+1 classical_liberal

Find coworkers you peer with. Use the ERE skills and resources to move up or out.

When your web of goals is fully complementary, the time spent at work becomes fun. You can look forward to large parts of your work day and get paid well.

IMO one of the most interesting parts of this forum, is reading through the journals and seeing how various people solve this problem.

There's quite a few that have made work so good they decide to stay. Others who once they are "free," find new work they enjoy that also happens to provide income.

That's the real puzzle to solve - how do you maximize the percentage of your day spent on things you value. Hint, hitting a magic dollar amount isn't the answer.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FBeyer »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:51 pm
... FU amounts of money... only potential energy, not kinetic.

I model money as a tool; not an end to itself, unless you happen to be a tool collector. Hammers and planes won't do anything for you, unless you wield them somehow. Money sitting in an investment account won't really do anything for you. Cash on hand won't do anything for you. You are the one doing something with the potential you've gathered.

It always, ALWAYS, comes down to the person and their attitude. Thinking money solves problems on their own is a misplaced sense of responsibility. It's no different from thinking a tan and pretty clothes will make you more successful. It just happens to be an accepted self-delusion among FIRE circles.

FIRE 2018
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FIRE 2018 »

I played the corporate BS head games and politics during my successful career at Megacorp while at the same time kept my eye on the prize- FIRE when I could. When at work I was not the same person who was at home.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

Last edited by AnalyticalEngine on Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FIRE 2018 »

ERE and FIRE is not the answer to all problems but for some, it's freedom and no more working for a boss again. We are the boss of our own destiny.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by fiby41 »

ERE should be a compliment to one's life, never the sole purpose of it.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Jin+Guice »

As everyone else said, you should seek to learn from your coworkers. No matter how dumb and hopelessly boring some asshat you are forced to work with is, they always always know at least 1 thing you don't and do at least 1 interesting thing. Your life will be a lot better if you seek to know those things about them.

I think most of the people I work with are awful and pretty dumb when it comes to anything but doing their job and telling stories about their weddings. Learning to shoot the shit with and figuring out what is good about these boring normals is helpful in both the short and long-term. I balance this out with a healthy bit of secret elitism, but maybe one day I'll graduate to Kegan 4 and let that go.

From what you've said, it sounds like you are defining yourself primarily through your job and your pursuit of FIRE. I'd seek to find more outside interests that you can connect with people on. I'd find you pretty dull if financial independence was the only thing you wanted to talk about.

If you really hate your job, you should get another one. I don't think it's worth doing a job you hate for even 3-4 years to retire early. You'll never get the perfect job, but that doesn't mean you have to accept a miserable one. It's misguided and foolish to view the accumulation years as a price that must be paid in suffering for the reward of blissful joy in early retirement. All you're doing is compressing the standard consumer plan of hating work and then enjoying paid leisure when you're done working. How boringly mainstream.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FIRE 2018 »

In regards to ERE and or FIRE it took me a while to find people to share common interests such as these subjects. Similar to other posts, my previous peers at Megarcorp shared the misery loves misery concept and with the USA being a consumer driven spend spend spend economy, my peers fell into this category. I did not share in this belief but I usually lended an open ear to those who wanted to vent their frustration, and also I gave advice to those who care to listen. ERE and FIRE is a whole different mindset and lifestyle and it's not for everyone. It can be a lifestyle that can be anal at times but I have always lived a life of structure and self discipline. I'm still working on the "having fun" aspect and that's a work in progress.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by conwy »

nikolaj wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am
in 3-4 years i will reach FIRE.
You're saying all of this as someone who hasn't actually reached FIRE and, by the looks of it, is still working a 9-5 job.
nikolaj wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am
The only problem is that while my life is getting better on an abstract level (growing net worth), it is not getting better on a day to day level.
I've seen this disconnect sometimes in my own life. What looks good "on paper" vs what's good in reality.

I think it's important to try and connect the two. A FIRE stash is just numbers on screens. But those numbers *do* materially impact your life. Those numbers do actually mean time. Time to think, plan, experience, live... anything!

It doesn't have to be time in the distant future either. If you go the semi-retirement route, those numbers could give you 3 month or even 6 months of every year to yourself.

Personally I'm leaning more toward the semi-retirement route rather than full FIRE. For a mixture of psychological, financial-economic and career reasons.

Pyschological - Work gives me a feeling of safety and security. That's a nice feeling to have. So it's worth working 9-5 for at least part of the year, just to have that feeling, even if it's just a feeling.

Financial-Economic - The Western world (and, in fact, most of the world) is in an 'extended slow growth' period. From my observations, this means that overall returns, even on high-growth assets, are pretty low. So it will take a longer time (10-20 years) for me to retire. At the same time, wages are up and unemployment is down. I'm seeing this with my own eyes - job adverts in shop windows, recruiters contacting me non-stop, etc. In this kind of situation, jobs are abundant and pay well. It makes more sense to be working, earning income and saving moderately. I already have a pretty big stash (by my standards). In a slow-growth environment, I'd rather spend more and save less rather than put away 90% and live frugally during my best years.

Career - Taking a holiday right now has been interesting. It's revealed how much I enjoy creative work. While I love sleeping in, travelling, doing tonnes of walking, not being in a hurry, etc., I also find myself reading up on developments in programming, writing code in my spare time, etc. Now I don't strictly need to be employed to do these things. But if I can get paid so easily for doing something I naturally enjoy anyway, why not? It's going to be 10% less enjoyable than working my own projects, but 100% better paid. So it's a good deal to be employed.

It seems like you have finances and goals sorted, but maybe what's missing in your life is pleasurable interactions with people and maybe a feeling of belonging or membership.

I've found it similarly difficult, but I'm slowly starting to build a little network of acquaintances.

One thing I've found is that you don't always know how much you have in common with people around you. You mightn't all be into FIRE, etc. but there are often other things you wouldn't have thought of. If you observe people a lot and try and pick out things they say or do that interest you, then you can bring those things up with them and maybe find a connection.

For example, someone who's really into cooking can still be interesting to you, because you can take their ideas on cooking and put a "frugal" spin on it.

Or someone might have a perculiar style of humour that you find you find funny and engaging. That won't cost you a cent!

I've found it usually possible to be my full frugal self and still enjoy people's company (and they enjoy mine) just as long as I'm self-aware about it and honest and up-front with them. I just have to own who I am. My co-workers joke a lot about how I eat Sardines (one of my money-saving hacks). I basically became the "Sardine guy". This was Ok with me. It was funny. And of course they could all be made fun of as well in their own specific ways. Everyone has some kind of quirk or kink.
nikolaj wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am
It also bothers me that i have to surround myself with people who are anti growth, because you become like the people that you associate with daily, and their stagnation could rub off on me.
I had this experience too. It takes a lot of discipline to pursue frugality when others aren't doing it.

Still I think if you're persistent and people observe that you really mean it and this isn't just a fad for you, but a dedication, then gradually they'll start to work in with you and even help you. They won't invite you for expensive drinks for the 100th time if it's clear that you're not going.

But that doesn't mean you should separate yourself from others. You still want to extract all the benefits of socialising and being around people, but without compromising your principles.

If you feel like you're not "pulling your weight" by not over-spending, there are always non-monetary ways to contribute. Just one example - being a wingman to your buddy who's trying to chat up a lady. You can show that you love people without spending money on them!
nikolaj wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am
Has anyone else felt this? It is very hard to deal with, because it affects me 8 hours per day and i don't know how to solve this problem.
You should probably try and find a more interesting or motivating job. Or find ways to make your current work more interesting. Have you read up on 'job crafting' yet?

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