ERE doesn't make day to day life better

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nikolaj
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ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by nikolaj »

So i started my first corporate job half a year ago, and i have been doind this ERE thing saving 75% of my income. My financial situation has gone from 0$ networth to 20000$ net worth, which i have invested in a rental property. ERE is solving all my financial problems, and in 3-4 years i will reach FIRE.

The only problem is that while my life is getting better on an abstract level (growing net worth), it is not getting better on a day to day level.
1. My job still has all the same flaws, challenges and time wastes.
2. Co workers don't become more interesting, in fact they become less interesting as i learn more about economy while they stagnate.

It seems like ERE is a choice to grow better as a person. But when you grow better, you also distance yourself from normal people, who dislike growth.
It's getting to the point where i can only really have an honest intelligent conversation about life with 1 person at my job. This is also the only person at work doing better than me financially, which i don't think is a coincidence.
I like talking about personal finance, politics and economy, because i want to understand them better. But these subjects intimidate normal people and make them self conscious. Many of these people are actually intelligent, but they never question anything in life. Intelligent people who don't look for knowledge will still remain ignorant about the world.
It also bothers me that i have to surround myself with people who are anti growth, because you become like the people that you associate with daily, and their stagnation could rub off on me.


Has anyone else felt this? It is very hard to deal with, because it affects me 8 hours per day and i don't know how to solve this problem.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

As you grow and change, your circle of friends and acquaintances will also change. I felt similarly when starting my path down the ERE/FI road 7 years ago, but was surprised that like minded folks are out there, you just havent found them yet.

FIRE 2018
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FIRE 2018 »

Congratulations in your achievement and progress. It is hard to share your ideas and beliefs with peers. I also was in that same situation. However I kept my private life and financial stuff private when I worked at MegaCorp because I did not want to be another vicious gossip in the office. Keep forging ahead and don't listen to the negative vibes. Full steam ahead and screw the negative talk. Be better than that!

IlliniDave
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by IlliniDave »

Sounds like too much of you life is wrapped up in your job (based on your two examples of day-to-day issues). I think relatively few of us are able to rely on our paid employment for a vocation profound enough to define a full life for us. First thing I'd do is search for hobbies and interests outside of work characterized by immediate contact with the world rather than more abstract ones like money and politics and such.

sky
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by sky »

After you retire, ERE doesn't neccesarily create butterfies and rainbows either. You will have an incredible amount of freedom, but you have to make the right choices to find happiness and satisfaction.

nikolaj
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by nikolaj »

I think you guys are right. Simply having less focus on my work life and focusing more of my mental energy outside of it could help. Perhaps work stuff will seem less significant if it is indeed a smaller part of my life.
I don't really consider myself a career person, but it's easy to get wrapped up in it, when i spend every day in that environment.

7Wannabe5
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

What if you had a SO who was just as interested and engaged in financial matters as you but had no interest in sex? My point being that there is quite possibly something(s) your co-workers as interested in as you are interested in financial matters.

My friend who is multi-millionaire watches the stock channel and reads financial publications and talks about financial, or financially related matters, a great deal of the time. It's kind of boring after a while, so I try to change the topic back to gardening which is another interest we share.

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Sclass
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Sclass »

nikolaj wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am
It also bothers me that i have to surround myself with people who are anti growth, because you become like the people that you associate with daily, and their stagnation could rub off on me.
Yeah, work still sucks. Put it all into context. You are at the salt mine. What kind of person would slave away there for a tiny dividend of their human capital day after day? You are kind of getting disillusioned with the system for doing what it does so well.

Most of my old friends from my school days and work days are these kind of people. And I actually miss having them in my life. It was one thing having them tell me during our time in the prison camp that I could tunnel out. But once I actually tunneled out, they distanced themselves from me. And they covered my tunnel with an old tarp. That’s just the way it is sometimes.

I’m still trying to meet up with some of my old besties next month. I gave them two months notice of my itinerary. Still haven’t heard back. It’s okay. It’s hard enough to have an ego, but how about having one while keeping your head down and toiling at the same time?

Work is work. You get your salary there and some healthcare. And anything on top of that is a gift.

You’re taking a lonely path. Look at how few people we have here.

I think it is a good idea to find like minded people around us. They’re out there. They are rare though and you’ll have to do a little more than just showing up at the salt mine and chit chatting at the water cooler.

ERE will make your life better (I know, that wasn’t really what you were asking) when you realize that 90% of a younger persons misery is financial. Almost every complaint by my old salt miner pals could be solved with money. They might as well have said “I need more money” instead of recite the litany of issues they had, like kids college tuition, car problems, house interest rates, childcare cost.

Good luck. You’re still in your early stages. When my net was only $20,000 life wasn’t all that good. The quality of my colleagues was just awful too. Imagine the flooded mineshaft where all the low buck miners work. It’s gonna suck and it takes a kind of mental trickery to stay focused on digging. Don’t get upset if people are too good at tricking themselves.

FIRE 2018
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FIRE 2018 »

When I was working everyone that was in my team at work were "slaves to debt". That's what keeps our USA economy going strong but when you have the mindset of FI, ERE, or FIRE and pursue your dream it's a better way to improve your lives instead of being "slaves to debt".

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unemployable
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by unemployable »

Immediate-term drudgery and sacrifice in exchange for long-term freedom is kind of the point.

Your relationship with work and with your cow orkers would be the same regardless of your savings rate. Some of those things... I don't like talking current events and politics with others because I don't care what they think and have nothing to gain from the discussion. Having a certain worldview doesn't make you "smart" or "dumb". Perhaps your cow orkers feel the same way, and the things you have to say come off as unpleasant or condescending, and that's why they don't want to engage in discussion.

Tyler9000
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Tyler9000 »

To be honest, my first impression is that you need to step back and put yourself in the shoes of your coworkers. In one post, you labeled them as uninteresting, stagnated, normal, disliking growth, poorer than you, intimidated, self-conscious, ignorant, and uninterested in knowledge. If you met someone who viewed everyone around them like that, would you want to engage in a prolonged conversation with that person?

You'll feel a lot better once you learn to accept people for who they are. Stop fixating on what you don't have in common and start seeking out what you do.

nikolaj
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by nikolaj »

Sclass wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:17 am
Good luck. You’re still in your early stages. When my net was only $20,000 life wasn’t all that good. The quality of my colleagues was just awful too. Imagine the flooded mineshaft where all the low buck miners work. It’s gonna suck and it takes a kind of mental trickery to stay focused on digging. Don’t get upset if people are too good at tricking themselves.
Thank you for your post sclass, it is really helpful and insightful and definetely made my day better.

Tyler9000 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:39 pm
To be honest, my first impression is that you need to step back and put yourself in the shoes of your coworkers. In one post, you labeled them as uninteresting, stagnated, normal, disliking growth, poorer than you, intimidated, self-conscious, ignorant, and uninterested in knowledge. If you met someone who viewed everyone around them like that, would you want to engage in a prolonged conversation with that person?

You'll feel a lot better once you learn to accept people for who they are. Stop fixating on what you don't have in common and start seeking out what you do.
Certainly i am gonna come off as a jerk when i say so many negative things about my co workers. They are not bad people and we do have some fun together. My main criticism about them is being anti-growth. I realise that they don't exists to please me, but it is very hard for me to understand them. The thing is that i am unhappy with my life, so i seek to improve it. Many of my co workers are also unhappy with their lives, but they do not seek to improve their lives.

How can people accept things being bad, and do nothing to change it?

Tyler9000
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Tyler9000 »

nikolaj wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:16 pm
The thing is that i am unhappy with my life, so i seek to improve it. Many of my co workers are also unhappy with their lives, but they do not seek to improve their lives.

How can people accept things being bad, and do nothing to change it?
I hear ya. And don't get me wrong -- I've dealt with some of the same issues myself.

When I first got into FIRE I also had a strong urge to proselytize the concept to others, but it inevitably ran people off and made me feel more detached than before. Eventually I figured out that it's better to be a good example who is willing to answer questions rather than force conversations that others aren't really ready for. The key to being a good communicator is to shut up and listen.

Robdac
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Robdac »

A lot of this comes from ego.

You've saved a little money.
You've figured something out.
You want to continue growing as a human being.

You don't like parts of your job or most of your co-workers. Go for less ego keep growing. Every one of those coworkers can teach you something you don't know. Your job can teach you patience, discipline, and how to perform in less than ideal conditions. Sounds like an easy place to be a leader for others.

FIRE 2018
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FIRE 2018 »

When I worked at Megacorp, there were many employees that had the same thing in common. Misery loves misery. I listened, learned, took risks, laid low and FIREd because I could. You never stop learning.

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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

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Toska2
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Toska2 »

I quit my career to work at meaningless jobs. The notion that I will live and die at this job is a fallacy. Therefore it behooved me to accept lower positions where stagnation was no longer the norm.

Enjoy the company you are with, it will change when you are ready.

classical_Liberal
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by classical_Liberal »

I agree with the posted responses, particularly @ffj. I'm at that exact spot myself.

One thing that helped me earlier on in my journey was to realize that saving FU amounts of money doesn't make any day-to-day life difference because it's only potential energy, not kinetic. What this means is that you are beginning o feel all of that potential energy build up, yet it's just sitting there. So find a way to use it. Negotiate some type of life improvement. Maybe with work load, or schedule. Maybe with something else. Use the FU money situation to promote positive change you otherwise may not have been willing or able to do.

Scott 2
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by Scott 2 »

+1 classical_liberal

Find coworkers you peer with. Use the ERE skills and resources to move up or out.

When your web of goals is fully complementary, the time spent at work becomes fun. You can look forward to large parts of your work day and get paid well.

IMO one of the most interesting parts of this forum, is reading through the journals and seeing how various people solve this problem.

There's quite a few that have made work so good they decide to stay. Others who once they are "free," find new work they enjoy that also happens to provide income.

That's the real puzzle to solve - how do you maximize the percentage of your day spent on things you value. Hint, hitting a magic dollar amount isn't the answer.

FBeyer
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Re: ERE doesn't make day to day life better

Post by FBeyer »

classical_Liberal wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:51 pm
... FU amounts of money... only potential energy, not kinetic.
This!

I model money as a tool; not an end to itself, unless you happen to be a tool collector. Hammers and planes won't do anything for you, unless you wield them somehow. Money sitting in an investment account won't really do anything for you. Cash on hand won't do anything for you. You are the one doing something with the potential you've gathered.

It always, ALWAYS, comes down to the person and their attitude. Thinking money solves problems on their own is a misplaced sense of responsibility. It's no different from thinking a tan and pretty clothes will make you more successful. It just happens to be an accepted self-delusion among FIRE circles.

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