Do people just give up after 25?

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TopHatFox
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Do people just give up after 25?

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:40 pm

I don't know if I'm crazy here or not, but it seems like people kinda....give up after a certain age? Almost like they're dead inside or something...no longer curious, not taking care of their bodies, no longer interested in their own goals, etc. It's kinda sad!

Have you noticed this phenomenon?

Seppia
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Seppia » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:51 pm

No.

daylen
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by daylen » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:14 pm

Lol. Let me offer a hypothesis for why it looks that way to you.

The things you associate with are not the things they(*) associate with, so the complexity/information they occupy themselves with seems simplified/invisible from your perspective. This may imply you are on a dunning-kruger mountain in the areas they identify with.

(*) ..they being a select few available in your memory that you generalize to be the set of all humans with age > 25.

Seppia
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Seppia » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:39 pm

daylen wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:14 pm
This may imply you are on a dunning-kruger mountain in the areas they identify with.
The Mount Everest of it.

TopHatFox
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:42 pm

I dunno guys, this is a pretty select few of a forum. The people I see in the population statistics certainly seem to be indebted, overweight if not obese, and in okay-jobs. Those seem like the standard markers of success to society to meeeee

Seppia
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Seppia » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Many people don't even give up, they never really try, but this isn't exactly the forum where we use the averages as the bar to jump over, right?

I do not think age has anything to do with it: I'm sorry for being direct, but I feel the "are old people weak" question equally as stupid as the "are young people lazy and entitled"

TopHatFox
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:52 pm

I think it's important to acknowledge the phenomena though, because then the question becomes how to find the still-curious & fit older people.

daylen
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by daylen » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:04 pm

..or the question could become how to use the measuring sticks of whoever is there to listen. You may not always have complete agency over who you associate with, but you could try disassociating from yourself to allow whoever is there to become a part of you. They may even take a part of you.
Last edited by daylen on Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dream of Freedom
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Dream of Freedom » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:04 pm

Youth hides those particular shortcomings. Of course that 19 yo has a shitty job she has no experience or degree. He doesn't have money, but he is just starting out. They aren't fat yet because their bodies have been using the caloric surplus to grow taller not rounder, but that stops.

BookLoverL
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by BookLoverL » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:07 pm

I think probably by age 25 people who are on the "9-5 work for life" track have had a few years to become fully settled into their zombie routine, even the ones that went to university, so they start to not even remember what it was like to actually have time to do other stuff than work. Plus the sedentary lifestyle is getting to them by then...

Also, at 19 or 21 you can easily tell yourself, "my job sucks because I'm SUPPOSED to be at the entry level, it'll get better in the future", but the more time you spent in work, the more you can tell that work is rubbish when you've been there a few years, too.

On the other hand, I'm 25, and I definitely don't intend to give up on happiness. ;) Man, I'm so glad I only work part-time...

Kriegsspiel
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:21 pm

As far as work goes, I could see people working in fucked up environments, like the current university system (that you're working in, if memory serves), being soulkilled early. But if you are working in a non-retarded place then odds are you won't. FWIW I've worked in a lot of different jobs, and I've noticed blue collar workers are more happy and engaged than "unskilled" white collar.

Frita
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Frita » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:33 pm

@Seppia
:lol:

Neurologically, the frontal lobe is finally fully-developed at age 25. So the impulsivity of young adulthood should theoretically be tempered with some logic. If this does not happen for the masses, I’d say it’s cultural with ERE being a tiny subset of that.

From a personal standpoint, 25 is the age where I realized that working as a teacher was akin to prostitution. Still at it part-time despite FI BUT getting serious about giving up in about 45 days. DH (who ERed easily) and I are both 50. We have acquaintances and friends ranging from 20s to 80s, are still interested in learning, and are fit and weigh what we did when we reached full physical maturity (him, HS weight; me,JH ). I do yoga with 70 year olds who outdo us all. Lots of fit older bikers and skiers here too, though many seem brainwashed with Consumerism and/or boutique environmentalism.

mathiverse
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by mathiverse » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:48 pm

That doesn't appear to be an accurate description of 25+ year old people in the areas of the SF Bay Area that I frequent. Maybe because a lot of people in tech are type A? Does careerism count as not giving up?

OTCW
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by OTCW » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:00 pm

People give up when they give up. The ill effects show up a lot more readily as they age.

platypus
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by platypus » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:01 pm

I've noticed some older people who appear to have given up on life, but I don't think it's because they're old. Usually they're in a horrible marriage, and I suspect that's the culprit. It may just be a symptom though.

I think the giver-uppers are in the minority. It's definitely common for people to have bad physiques when they get older, but almost inevitably they haven't given up; it's just that their strategies for improvement are ineffective.
Frita wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:33 pm
From a personal standpoint, 25 is the age where I realized that working as a teacher was akin to prostitution.
I'm very curious about this. What makes teaching like prostitution?

Kriegsspiel
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:05 pm

platypus wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:01 pm
I'm very curious about this. What makes teaching like prostitution?
The part where they're paid to humiliate you and spank you with paddles.

I'm thinking Frita teaches at Catholic school. And is familiar with... less mainstream prosties. You deviant, you!

IlliniDave
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by IlliniDave » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:33 pm

I dunno, I'm 2X25 and then some, and I'm going down swinging.

TopHatFox
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:05 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:21 pm
As far as work goes, I could see people working in fucked up environments, like the current university system (that you're working in, if memory serves), being soulkilled early. But if you are working in a non-retarded place then odds are you won't. FWIW I've worked in a lot of different jobs, and I've noticed blue collar workers are more happy and engaged than "unskilled" white collar.
What’s so bad about higher ed? Overwork & underpaid or something else? Got any recommendations for better public places to work?

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Sclass
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Sclass » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:55 pm

A lot of good points here. I think I can add that reality hits the 25 yo pretty hard and they succumb to it instead of figuring out how to change reality.

I like the point that youth hides sins.

I recall having an internship at about 22 and I was terrified of the lifestyle the 25 yo guys fell into. They married a local girl and got her pregnant, not necessarily in that order. Bought a small home. Buckled down for the long slog to 65 in the company (big industry). I ran back to grad school as fast as I could so I wouldn’t “die”.

In my case I wanted to stay in the cocoon on school a bit longer. Perhaps people who don’t have the privilege of paid tuition to college give up sooner simply because they leave the cocoon earlier. 25 may be where a lot of people have been out in the world long enough getting their ass kicked. Then they start to realize they aren’t going to win this. Then it goes one of two ways, fight or surrender.

I dunno. It was long ago for me.

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Ego
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Re: Do people just give up after 25?

Post by Ego » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:07 am

OTCW wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:00 pm
People give up when they give up. The ill effects show up a lot more readily as they age.
This.

While it is possible from time to time to learn something useful from those who gave up, the most powerful lessons are learned from those who live long while maintaining their curiosity, health and passion for living.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Even if those people are in your head.

Also critical and the reason I do not like Myers-Briggs:
https://hbr.org/2018/09/having-a-growth ... -interests

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