How to cut back on food spending

[intellectualpersuit]

I am not opposed to spending more for organic food. I believe doing so is less or equally as expensive in the long run because of negative health impact of non-organic foods and associated medical bills. Maybe I am exaggerating the negatives of non-organic food, but I think this is worth researching and considering, which I haven't really seen on this forum, so what do you all think?

[7Wannabe5]

Get a housemate who is willing to pay for the groceries if you do the cooking. Usually a win-win since not much more trouble to cook for two and home-cooked is generally healthier than take-out/convenience. Of course, this strategy works better if/when you are already retired or semi-retired yourself.

[prognastat]

Unless new research has come out on this the difference in health outcomes between organic/non-organic seemed pretty inconclusive. Some studies find differences, but many also don't. One concern regarding the studies showing higher nutrient level intake for those consuming organic is that this might be the result of health conscious consumers(which are likelier to fall in the organic consuming group otherwise why would you even spend more on them) might also be more likely to consume a higher amount of vegetables and fruits when compared to a control group consuming a regular American diet.

It seems a bias for organic often comes from the naturalistic fallacy where adherents believe that because the pesticides/crop types/ soil treatment are "natural" rather than "synthetic"/"non-organic" that it is by default better just because.

One thing that has been conclusively proven to improve health outcomes is having more wealth which reducing expenses would achieve.

[take2]

I've been up and awake in that part of London several times, but always to visit the establishment across the street, and I don't think I've ever left before 7am or so

Ha! Fabric is not really my scene but I do find it funny when I’m walking past a bunch of inebriated scantily-clad ladies with a backpack and two Ikea bags full of meat. Gives a whole new meaning to “meat market”


I’m not sure about the whole organic or non organic for long term health but I think in taste the closer you get to the source the better it usually is. The deep orange yolks from my aunts chickens taste better than the yellowish-orange free range ones I buy, and those taste a lot better than the bland pale whiteish yolks from caged hens.

Same goes for produce, and especially meat. In general I advocate for finding better ways to source quality food inexpensively vs giving up quality to save money. Cutting out meat is fantastic if you want to really save money, or if you have strong environmental views (I leave out ethical views because I tend to find those contradictory) but it’s not for everyone.

I do agree with the rest of the ppl here that almond milk and protein bars are expensive, probably carry too much sugar, and aren’t great for your wallet.

[Salathor]

We're at $300 or so for a family of three, and as Jacob said I think the issue is that you choose more expensive options.

Almond milk is significantly more pricey than regular milk and has virtually none of the cornerstone nutrients--check out its protein and fat content compared to whole milk.

Jasmine rice--instead, buy bulk brown rice. It's $.60 a pound and higher in fiber. Consider whole wheat as well.

Basically, start thinking in "kokus"--the amount of grain required to feed a man for a year. It costs about $200 to provide a person with 2000 kcal per day for a year using staple grains and beans, which also provide your full dose of protein and fiber if you cook smart. So, basically, your "cornerstone" nutrients (kcal, protein, fiber) are covered for $20 a month. Subtract a few bucks from that since you'll eat other food--you're at $15 a month. Now, add $105 per month worth of dairy, meat, greens, and fruits and you have a broad, health diet that costs $120 per month per adult--about $4 a day.

[Frita]

The keys are really:
- zero processed foods
- eat meat and fish maximum once a week (we probably do twice a month)
- buy only in-season stuff
- let the sales dictate your menu
Do that and you're 80% of the way there

Agreed. I’d add that cooking your own food, using that meat/dairy more as a condiment, and not overeating and/or having a high body weight to maintain are important. Often buying what is on sale and/or in season is cheaper for organic. Now buying processed organic would be a different story.

[Seppia]

Yup I did not specify that, but cooking your own food was an assumption.

[jacob]

Basically, start thinking in "kokus"--the amount of grain required to feed a man for a year. It costs about $200 to provide a person with 2000 kcal per day for a year using staple grains and beans, which also provide your full dose of protein and fiber if you cook smart. So, basically, your "cornerstone" nutrients (kcal, protein, fiber) are covered for $20 a month. Subtract a few bucks from that since you'll eat other food--you're at $15 a month. Now, add $105 per month worth of dairy, meat, greens, and fruits and you have a broad, health diet that costs $120 per month per adult--about $4 a day.

I appreciate the Japanese/samurai salary [koku] reference because it provides a good baseline for considering the entire universe/scale of solution. (See ERE book 5.2.1 on Identifiying needs and wants.) The reason I'm saying this is that I do get the Wheaton-level vibe from this thread that anything 2 levels below current spending must be rice and beans which apparently is the lowest possible point whereas in reality, everybody here, including the notorious lentil soup is several levels above what's possible.

It's currently extremely cheap (thanks oil!) to get the required macronutrients to stay alive. I'll just take your word that it's $15/month. What to add after that to improve it is a quagmire of dietary debates. Personally, I use it mainly on vegetables. Or maybe more precisely, I try to stay away from carbs(*), meat, and dairy, but most of all preprocessed stuff.

(*) Wait what? But didn't I just presume that rice and beans is a baseline? Yes, but this means less rice, more legumes (even if they do contain carbs).

[Kriegsspiel]

I have great admiration for the fortitude of folks who can load up on bulk frozen skinless chicken breasts and actually finish them all.

The trick with those is to thaw them out and put them in the slow cooker. They slow cook all day, then I put them in the fridge for later use on salads.

[jacob]

Around here all that chicken stuff mainly serves as DIY dog food. He loves it. I don't. We also collect chicken leftovers/random parts from neighbors. It all adds.

[Kriegsspiel]

Chicken stuff, like breasts? Yea, I could see a dog liking that.

[jacob]

Mostly carcasses, legs, and breasts in that order.

[Jin+Guice]

@OP:

That seems really high to me, it's amazing how little differences add up. The only clear thing I see that you're doing wrong is eating processed food, but somehow you're managing to exceed my food budget by a magnitude of 2.5-3x. The only other differences I can spot are, I'm a vegetarian, I buy a lot of food at Walmart and I buy non-perishables in bulk. It's amazing to me that this makes that much of a difference because without the numbers I'd say you're 90% of the way there.

I'm also a daily almond milk drinker. Walmart and Costco have by far the cheapest almond milk. It's never going to be as cheap as real milk, but I've run the numbers and they're selling it about as cheap as you can make it. I'm not sure if you're concerned about sugar, but both stores have no sugar added almond milk that is called "original" or something. It should be 30 calories per serving.



I've recently changed my grocery store strategy. I cancelled my Costco membership and buy bulk items and a small amount of produce from Walmart. I used to buy a lot of bulk produce from Costco. I'd eat almost all of it before it spoiled but, I'd be adding double the vegetables to everything as well as eating a ton of old produce. I started buying produce from a much more expensive but walkable grocery store. I think I may have reduced my grocery expenditure this way because I'm buying so much less produce, but I stopped tracking it.

The real balancing act once you get the basics of cooking for yourself and not eating any processed foods down is navigating your own food environment. For example, I can drive to Walmart, Costco, an Indian grocery store and a Chinese grocery store, but I can walk to 2 dollar stores, a bourgeois grocery store and the weirdest fucking grocery store of all time. I used to drive around to get the cheapest prices on everything and make grocery store trips as infrequently as possible. Now I just go to Walmart every few weeks and buy a bunch of bulk stuff and walk to the fancy grocery store every couple of days. I'm much happier this way. Jacob's sale/ loss leader technique is excellent because it can be used in any store.

As usual, the real win is approaching the problem differently. I used to cook for my friend and her family. They'd eat whatever I was going to eat, but I just made more of it. She paid for all the food and I lived on her couch for free. Gardening/ urban farming is another potential solution to the problem.

[TheRedHare]

For example, I live in London and buy all of my meat at Smithfield’s which is a wholesale meat market targeted at large buyers (supermarkets, butchers, etc). It’s only open from 2am-6am but they’ll sell to you as long as you buy in bulk. One trip for about £100 is enough chicken/pork/beef to last me and the SO 2-3 months. And we generally cook meat 4-5 times a week.

This is a great idea! I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier but....my mom has a small restaurant, so i'll see if I can buy chicken in bulk from her at cost and then freeze them.

[TheRedHare]

Basically, start thinking in "kokus"--the amount of grain required to feed a man for a year. It costs about $200 to provide a person with 2000 kcal per day for a year using staple grains and beans, which also provide your full dose of protein and fiber if you cook smart. So, basically, your "cornerstone" nutrients (kcal, protein, fiber) are covered for $20 a month. Subtract a few bucks from that since you'll eat other food--you're at $15 a month. Now, add $105 per month worth of dairy, meat, greens, and fruits and you have a broad, health diet that costs $120 per month per adult--about $4 a day.

I like your way of thinking.

I'll switch to brown rice, and start eating more beans. I need to find some good rice and beans recipes, or some decent spices because rice and beans can be so bland.

What do you mean by " Subtract a few bucks from that since you'll eat other food--you're at $15 a month?"

[prognastat]

I think he meant that if you were purely eating rice and beans it'd be $20 for those for a month, but if you ate some other things then you'd probably be spending $15 on rice and beans, but spend more than the $5 subtracted on a few pricier items.

[Papers of Indenture]

Aldi. If can get it at normal grocery chain for 3.49 I can get it for 1.99 at Aldi.

[Salathor]

Prog is right--I meant that ~$20 per month can supply your caloric need (give or take a bit based on food need and whether you can get your grains for $0.50/# or have to pay $1+ for them) using staple grains and beans, but you won't need the full 2,000 kcal since you'll be spending your other $100+ on calories from meat, dairy, oil, veggies, fruit, etc.

[take2]

This is a great idea! I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier but....my mom has a small restaurant, so i'll see if I can buy chicken in bulk from her at cost and then freeze them.

This is your ticket! Reminds me of an old roommate of mine who worked in the restaurant business for years and always kept good relations. For $120 his old boss would sell us 30 quality 12oz ribeyes (at cost). We would fire up the grill every Saturday and eat like kings for what averaged out to be a few bucks.

[TheRedHare]

Aldi. If can get it at normal grocery chain for 3.49 I can get it for 1.99 at Aldi.

Yea, I went into my local Kroger and the cost of chicken is exactly $3.49/lb