Polyamory Support Group

[Jean]

Be nice, including to yourself, is how I would sumarize a better guideline.

[7Wannabe5]

@Gravy Train:

Good point. I got knocked up at 22, so I skipped right over that phase. However, it does kind of happen again in your 50s when you are considering how long you have left to hook up with somebody you can rely on to keep your walker screwed tight and remind you that frozen limeade should be diluted with water before you drink it. Ticking biological clock #2 when every day you wake up looking just a wee bit more like Mrs. Santa Claus.

[Jason]

Maybe The Pence Rule could be helpful here. You say to your girlfriend "Listen, I want to sleep with this other girl, but I'm afraid of being alone with her because of all the stuff going on these days, so I think it's important that you be there with us, at least in a witness capacity. I mean, you don't want me to end up in a lawsuit do you?"

[Laura Ingalls]

I think pulling off polyamory in a society designed for serial monogamy is going to require ninja level communication skills. From what G+J has shared this relationship doesn’t have it.

I am struggling with the sex is painful narrative. Are you expecting a nearly 40 year old woman to be ok with the car as the default location for sex?? My neck and back hurt just thinking about it.

There are overweight 50 year old guys with more satisfying sex lives than you. They have them because they are good communicators and picked partners that enjoy sex.

[7Wannabe5]

Are you expecting a nearly 40 year old woman to be ok with the car as the default location for sex?? My neck and back hurt just thinking about it.

Well, even some people in their 50s and 60s (even 70s!)can get a bit nostalgic for the experiences of their youth, and car "sex" can be altered to fit the location. My married polyamour was my only mid-life lover who didn't at least have his own temporary-post-divorce-room-in-old-Frat-brother's-house, so we did make do on occasion, although he usually rented a hotel room, and we did sometimes hang out at my place, although that was definitely NOT my preference.

Also, since I generally follow the at-least-3-dates rule for sex, making out with an old guy in his car on second or other intermediary date is fairly frequent occurrence. I highly recommend it as good practice to any other mid-life female dater, because unlike callow youth who might feel like "just heavy petting" is disappointing or minor rejection, the older gentleman generally love it. Afterwards, they text stuff like "Made me feel like I was 16 again! What are you doing this Friday?" Of course, I do it because I very much like it too. So win-win.

There are overweight 50 year old guys with more satisfying sex lives than you. They have them because they are good communicators and picked partners that enjoy sex.

Very true. And, I should currently be reminding myself of this fact with genders reversed. Unfortunately, it often happens that the most sexual people hook up with the least sexual people, because the least sexual people can only be sexual with the most sexual people. But, there must always be some other compensating factor, and it is a worthwhile exercise to figure out what that factor is and how you can maybe acquire it on your own. Luckily, IME, it is also true that the most sexual people often hook up with other most sexual people too. Then it's like crazy hawt.

[Laura Ingalls]

@Laura. Pretty sure the car thing was a joke about her auto-immune disorder, and they don't exclusively have sex in cars.


You're my favorite, 7w5.

I wasn’t sure. I can be to literal for my own good.

7w5 I am all for alternative locations. I try to avoid ones that are going to require PT or chiropractic care afterward .

I won’t claim to be the overweight 50 year old woman with a hawt sex life. I have the rest of this month and half of next month to be a 40something.

[7Wannabe5]

@Gravy Train:

Thanks It's not always easy being a 54 year old who still has the predilections of a convent school escapee. Given the open status of my insufficient relationship, the main factor holding me back from dating at the moment is my inability to resign myself to the havoc late peri-menopause has wreaked upon my body. However, since my vision has also become somewhat impaired, and I tend towards a more easy-going aesthetic than many of my female peers, I have decided to simply give up on the butt and bid fond adieu at this juncture to those of my male peers with strict "something slinky" triggering mechanism. My belly is relatively flat, so just a little bit of effort should get me back to my minimum requirement for feeling sexy which is not looking too much like a Bio 102 frog with limbs akimbo.

ETA: Sorry if I grossed some of the guys out with the above

[George the original one]

Are you expecting a nearly 40 year old woman to be ok with the car as the default location for sex??

Subaru Outback, 2015+, have an incredibly, unbelieveably spacious back seat. Only trick is to avoid the seat belt connectors.

[jennypenny]

@GTOO--LOL! I have Dream Weaver in my head now.

[Jason]

Are you expecting a nearly 40 year old woman to be ok with the car as the default location for sex??

I guess self-driving technology will just be an opportunity for you to play "I-Spy" without worrying about the road.

[llorona]

The issue I'm having are 1) I don't go to a lot of places where there are single available women and I'm not used to flirting with them when I do.

I hear this a lot from guys who are poly. While it might be difficult meeting women out in the wild, are there polyamory meetups or Facebook groups in your community? Is there a kink community? Lots of poly people there, if that's your thing.

2) My girlfriend is not at all helpful and is constantly trying to make rules that severely hinder my ability to date anyone.

She's doing the female equivalent of clock blocking you. Sounds like you need to set aside time to delve deep and have a heart to heart. You can't have rules just for the sake of having them - and you shouldn't agree to rules that you can't keep, because then there will be fallout when you inevitably break them. Need to drill down - for instance, why doesn't girlfriend want you to date the same person more than three times? What is she afraid of? Is that fear realistic?

FWIW, my husband and I don't have rules, per se. We have boundaries, and very few of them. For instance, my paramours are allowed to come to the house (when DH isn't home), but we don't have sex in the bed that DH and I share. This is because our bed is a place of comfort, rest, security, etc., and we want to keep that private & between the two of us. I'm not saying you should follow our model, just sharing that we've had tons and tons of discussions on what's okay and what's not okay, and this is how it shook out for us.

I've matched with a few girls that I liked talking to, but all of them either stopped talking to me when they found out I had a girlfriend or I went back home before I was able to meet up with them.

If I were single and this happened, I'd stop talking to you, too! Gotta be upfront and lay what you're offering on the table, otherwise the people you're matching with are gonna feel duped. Either come out of the closet or get off the dating apps.

DH and I have only been open for a little over a year, so I'm far from expert at this. You can take my two cents or leave it! Either way, wishing you much luck -- really hope you and your girlfriend are able to find a balance that works for both of you.

[7Wannabe5]

@llorona:

Do your husband's paramours come to your house too? I am very curious about how other people manage these matters.

I just finished reading a fun mystery novel in which the protagonist single female detective is a practitioner of non-monogamy. In this novel, a parallel between easy-going, peace-loving matriarchal bonobo culture and pro-sex-feminist practitioners of polyamory was once again suggested. IOW, the best way to reduce male aggression is to offer men wide access to sexual activity and partners, but the only way to do this in egalitarian manner, given 50/50 gender ratio, is for women to accept multiple partners, and for men to accept women accepting multiple partners.

I have to say that I have been surprised at how accepting, and relatively well able to suppress jealousy, my partners have been in return for the same option. Of course, this might be due to the fact that on average the male desire for variety is more deep-seated. I like having a variety of partners, but for me it is more at the level of lifestyle, or personality, than sex. Different conversations over dinner, different interests to share, and different phases of levels or roles within intimacy.

So, I need to talk with my BF about how his "rules" which effectively limit my other relationships to strictly casual or not-sexual are not working for me, especially given that we are not the most sexually compatible couple ever. I mean, we are compatible in the sense that my open dial will spin to his midnight radio broadcast, but my reception range is much wider and picks up more central stations stronger.

[Jean]

The only way for men to widely accept polyamorous partner would be to discharge men of all responsabities regarding women pregnancies.

[C40]

@Jean: not really. TL:DR: for the man who don't want any (more) kids, we can just get a vasectomy.


I did have an interesting discussion with my sister when talking about getting a vasectomy - that if a woman gets pregnant (when either he or both don't want her to be) the man is suddenly in a poor position. The woman has full choice of whether to get an abortion, have the child, give it for adoption, etc. The man does not have control over which of these happens.

The man loses if the woman decides the opposite of what he wants:
- If he wants to raise the child and has moral objections to abortion, and she gets an abortion, he may feel really horrible about that
- If he does not want to raise or provide financially for a child, and she has the child, he could be on the hook for a lot of child support.

Maybe in a perfect world there could be a way for a man to officially declare one or multiple of the following and them having some legal importance/effect :
- Please have the child. I commit to supporting the child half/half
- Really please please have the child. I'll commit to raising the kid myself entirely, and I'll pay for whatever work salary you miss out on while pregnant, your hospital bills, etc.
- Please get an abortion. I'll pay for X% of your abortion related costs. I am excusing myself from responsibility of raising or paying for the child.
- Please have the child and give it up for adoption, I'll pay X% of your missed work pay, pregnancy healthcare, etc.

Of course, in the real world, this probably would not work or would be abused too much. So for a guy like me who doesn't want to have or support children, the obvious thing is to get a vasectomy. Then I will have 'discharged myself of all responsibilities regarding women pregnancies'.

[Jean]

If you get a vasectomy, you effectively discharge yourself of all the responsability that could be due to a pregnancy. Forgoing monogamy is forgiving the only autority(the mutualy agreed monogamy contract). Without it, it's responsability without autority, which is a deal no sane man would accept.

[Bankai]

TL:DR: for the man who don't want any (more) kids, we can just get a vasectomy.

I spent a good few hours on PubMed reading about potential side effects and it's not all roses. Some studies detail ~30% of men reporting chronic testicular pain after the operation. In extreme cases, PVPS (post-vasectomy pain syndrome) is still present even after removing testicles (!)

If it was as simple as having mirror surgery with 100% guarantee of no side effects, I'd get one in a heartbeat. As it is, I'm not sure it's worth the (small) risk of things going (catastrophically) wrong.

[llorona]

@WannaBe: Good thing you and I are too old for babies! (Sorry if that's a presumption on my part.)

After extensive discussion, here are agreements that DH and I have reached:
1. DH moves much slower than me, like glacially so. Thus far he's only had flirtations. But yes, he can bring his paramours over to our house. I'd prefer they didn't spend time in my office, because I have a lot of personal and work information lying around. The rest of the house (and yard, if that's their thing) is fine.
2. Before any of our lovers come to the house, we have to meet them in person and get to know them. For instance, if I start talking to someone from a dating app, I need to date meet them in person and establish trust & comfort before inviting them over.
3. Protecting our marriage is of utmost importance; therefore, we place high priority on selecting sane, self-aware paramours who accept and respect our marriage. Lovers need to be reasonable adults - no drama, no 3 a.m. phone calls, no breaking down the door, etc.
4. DH does not want me to cook for my lovers. He views my cooking as an act of love and nurturing that should be reserved for him. Given the latitude he gives me, I am happy to comply.
5. This is not an official rule, but if DH and I start feeling distant from one another, we set aside an evening to bond and reconnect.

What are your BF's "rules"?

[Laura Ingalls]

PSA regarding vasectomies

If you have one submit your semen sample and make sure ithas no swimmers. I know two men that have not had the first attempt not work. One had another child. The other just submitted 3 samples all with live sperm. Both ended up having a second vasectomy.

[Jin+Guice]

Along with the "oh yay house and kids and husband" feeling there's also a "oh no my free, fun-loving, sex-drenched 20s are coming to an end" feeling which you could very likely capitalize on, if you're aggressive enough. I'm going to guess that your best avenue for success is likely an online platform, but I'm also going to guess that everyone else on this forum has 100% more experience than me in that arena.

Noted, thank you .

My point is, there are available partners. From what I've read here, though, and the fact that you've already had this option for the last year, the impression I get is that you're not actually that into the idea of polyamory. I could be 100% misreading you and this thread, but there's a stranger's impression for you.

I am interested in polyamory, but it is uncomfortable and new for me in this context. I was in a polyamoruos relationship before, so I assumed I would be a real ace at it, but the circumstances of that relationship were totally different. The girlfriend I was dating then lived in another city about 2 hours away so we had total separation of location and life. I was also homeless, had a higher profile job where I dealt with more young sexy people and was doing a lot more drugs than I do now.

This time around is proving more difficult. I also haven't hit on anyone in 7 years, and I've actively avoided people hitting on me. My parents separated due to infidelity and my first serious girlfriend cheated on me, so I take fidelity and commitment perhaps a bit to seriously, when I agree to them. Figuring out how to hit on people, something I was never great at to begin with, while also navigating the dating world as a polyamor and appropriately addressing my girlfriend's feelings is honestly pretty fucking challenging and scary. I also voluntarily (and secretly) forfeited the first 6 months because I wanted to let her enjoy the fruits before I started indulging myself. In hindsight I don't think this was a good strategy, but I can't change that now.

I think pulling off polyamory in a society designed for serial monogamy is going to require ninja level communication skills. From what G+J has shared this relationship doesn’t have it.

I agree with you and I admit that I have terrible communication/ social skills when it comes to these issues. I am also bad at setting and enforcing boundaries. Recently it has become painfully clear that these are some major issues I need to address, not only in this realm of my life. I have been putting a lot of work in and I'm seeing some slow and painful improvement. My most common description to my IRL friends is "I thought it was going to be about drowning in pussy, but it's actually about drowning in difficult conversations."

I hear this a lot from guys who are poly. While it might be difficult meeting women out in the wild, are there polyamory meetups or Facebook groups in your community? Is there a kink community? Lots of poly people there, if that's your thing.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to check that out.

She's doing the female equivalent of clock blocking you. Sounds like you need to set aside time to delve deep and have a heart to heart. You can't have rules just for the sake of having them - and you shouldn't agree to rules that you can't keep, because then there will be fallout when you inevitably break them. Need to drill down - for instance, why doesn't girlfriend want you to date the same person more than three times? What is she afraid of? Is that fear realistic?

Thanks for chiming in with some excellent advice and your own experiences. I agree that she was essentially cock blocking me and the discussion where she brought up the rules I mentioned above was a long, intense and not very pleasant one. She is not especially good at having difficult relationship conversations and/ or I am not especially good at figuring out how she wants to have them. Hashing out the polyamory rules is not the only realm of our life where this is a problem. The initial agreement we made was that she could begin doing sex work again (something she strongly wanted) if we could open our relationship (something I strongly wanted). She does date women occasionally, but I'm sure she would agree to close our relationship and stop dating anyone else if she could continue sex work.

Her greatest fear is that I will meet someone else and leave her. I can't say this fear is 100% unfounded, I don't want to get married or commit to anyone forever. It's easy to get excited by a bright shiny new person who you don't engage in the mundane tasks of day to day living with. However, I am skeptical that this will because there is no way that any new person can recreate the depth of experience that you have with someone you've dated for 6 years and lived with for 7. I am very cognizant of this and the small amount of flirting I've done has only served to remind me what a catch have back at home. I'm also not looking for a new primary partner and meet very few women who I really really really like.

I do think it is likely I will meet someone I like a bit and that this will cause a great deal of conflict. The dream scenario for me would be 1 to 2 other steady women with some random hook-ups and the occasional threesome. Her strong preference is that we date other couples or I bring in other women for threesomes. Basically any scenario where she is also there. I'm fine with doing this too, but I don't want to be limited to it, I'm not going to do the legwork for it and I think we need to improve our own sex life before adding other people.

So, I need to talk with my BF about how his "rules" which effectively limit my other relationships to strictly casual or not-sexual are not working for me, especially given that we are not the most sexually compatible couple ever. I mean, we are compatible in the sense that my open dial will spin to his midnight radio broadcast, but my reception range is much wider and picks up more central stations stronger.

This is strikingly close to the problem I have been describing with a much greater amount of word salad.





The OP was kind of a bummer, because I was and still am feeling a little frustrated, but I am really enjoy the fuck out of having an open relationship.


It's so relieving to flirt with strangers at parties or just in the grocery store and not feel guilty. It feels like turning on part of myself that has been turned off for a very long time.

One of the reasons I wanted to do this was because I didn't date much before I met my girlfriend. I had consciously started asking girls out on dates/ using okcupid about 3 months before we met. Prior to that my strategy had been to go somewhere a woman I knew I liked would be and try to make-out with them, ask a woman I was interested in to hang out and try to make-out with them or just make-out with someone because we were getting fucked up together and they kept looking at me. It's nice to be more direct. It's also interesting to realize how much more self-confident I've become and how much better I know myself and what I want.

I'm a bit shy and I didn't know how to flirt at all when I was single. I've been spending a bit of time reading about how to flirt and watching other people flirt. I've been able to start intentionally flirting and goddamn, it is really fucking exhilarating.

I feel like I'm on an emotional fucking roller coaster. All I'm doing is flirting with people and talking to girls I don't know or care about on dating apps, but I've been having some pretty violent mood swings. I'm not sure what is triggering them. Thankfully I have a lot of experience managing my own emotions so I can return myself to an even baseline relatively easily. Rereading this, it sounds awful, but I haven't experienced this depth of emotion in a long time and I'm really enjoying it. I've found that I am also more engaged in other parts of my life and also being more sexy with my girlfriend.

I've really come to believe that her auto-immune disease is the culprit in the degeneration of our sex life. It wasn't like a cancer diagnosis where the doctor goes "well, y'all have six more months to fuck, so better get it in." It was more like 3-6 months of her rejecting me or stopping in the middle of sex because it suddenly hurt, then her getting diagnosed, then like a year of trying to have sex which usually ended in her crying and then her finally getting a treatment where we can have sex sometimes, but it's always kind of a crap shoot. So for the better part of a year and a half we were essentially punished for trying to have sex, a bit of a fucking boner kill. The result was a sort of desexulizatoin where sex/ being sexy with each other was slowly removed from our day to day lives. But, after about two months of engaging with other women, it feels like the internal switch is beginning to be flipped back.

[7Wannabe5]

@WannaBe: Good thing you and I are too old for babies!

Yeah, if I got knocked up again at 54, "Who's the Daddy?" would be the least of my worries.

What are your BF's "rules"?

Well, the term "rules" is likely overstating my BF's desire or ability to exert authority/responsibility over my lifestyle choices. More like very strong druthers that are quite in alignment with those held by Jin + Guice's GF.

Her strong preference is that we date other couples or I bring in other women for threesomes. Basically any scenario where she is also there. I'm fine with doing this too, but I don't want to be limited to it, I'm not going to do the legwork for it and I think we need to improve our own sex life before adding other people.

Ditto. Except my BF is very much willing/wanting to do the legwork. We have attempted 2 MMF encounters and neither went very well. I am pretty sure this was due to the fact that the other guys were put off by my BF's vibe, because it would be kind of like having Pat Riley on the sidelines while you were attempting a free throw.

Anyways, although no longer likely to get knocked up, it is kind of like I am now stuck co-parenting 2 different permaculture projects with 2 different paramours.. One of the primary reasons I didn't break up with my BF is he reminded me about a cool experiment with oven baking pine cones to mimic fire situation we were going to do. Maybe my polyamory pattern will end up being something like taking on a new garden simultaneous with each new lover, then eventually just being garden buddy with each lover, and if I own the land then I would be the Garden Baby-Mama, but if he owns the land then he would be the Garden Baby-Daddy.