Polyamory Support Group

Simple living, extreme early retirement, becoming and being wealthy, wisdom, praxis, personal growth,...
Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

@7: Seems like for once you're leaving out some juicy details...?

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Jin+ Guice:

Naaah. Just observation that if you are wimpy about break-ups (unlike Underwood in her videos) then the practice of polyamory does not help. In fact, I am so very wimpy about getting break-ups done it is possible that I subconsciously hoped that practice of polyamory might be way to avoid break-ups entirely. As in “We’re still together, but only for two hot weekends per year.” or “We’re still together, but only for pleasant conversation over lunch bi-weekly” or “We’re still together, but really only when I am sick and need somebody to pick up a prescription, and bi-weekly lunch guy is in Costa Rica with his terrible wife.”

I told The Cowboy that my relationship with him is now like his relationship with his ex-wife, whom he still cares about and buys new roofs, although he felt extremely depressed when he was stuck having to live with her. Except, obviously, I’m not buying new roofs for anybody. Ride to next colonoscopy might still be available. Depends on where I end up living.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

@7: I totally agree about the break-ups. I think I mentioned it in a previous post, but polyamory encourages not breaking up if you are getting anything from the relationship. The line between what is and isn’t dating can be confusing too. Your examples seem like productive secondary relationships though. I’d leave them intact, unless a partner you’d prefer not to hurt reasonably expects it to develop further or they are infringing on your boundaries.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

Back by popular demand....


Gd y'all, it's been a wild fucking ride.

I kept getting more and more jealous of my new gf. I'm still not really sure why. Trying to figure out the reasons for this has taken me on an emotional if not somewhat spiritual journey.

For me there are two types of jealousy. One where I go "Ouch, this hurts a little, I wonder why? Oh, this reason. Do I want to be upset about this. Nah, I want to talk to strangers on the internet about personal finance instead. Enjoy the orgy bb, make sure these people like you so I can get an invite next time." Then there's the type of jealousy where you feel like you're falling off of a cliff.

Last time I experienced that type of jealousy I was 23, working 20 hours a day, homeless and inebriated most of the time. I dealt with it by drinking a bottle of whiskey, weeping and then vomiting on a floor (because of the sadness, not the booze, duh) cleaning up the vomit and then making an intern get some flowers for Michael Bolton or whoever. Turns out, like most of the stuff I thought I dealt with while extremely high and basically an emotional child, this problem was not totally solved. Whoops.

What did happen in the ensuing ten years was my subconscious figured out how to effectively weaponize jealousy. Clever girl. So when my girlfriend would sleep with someone else I would have a huge emotional reaction which looks like me not talking and then disappearing for a few days to be sad on my own. Before therapy, I definitely would've just panicked at feeling jealous again, repressed it and yelled a bunch, so this is better.

So my gf is like "J+G, WTF, I'm tired of having mediocre sex with someone else bc I am bored WHICH I AM SUPPOSED TO BE ALLOWED TO DO and then you disappearing for like 3 days and then me having to leave to go back to work. This sucks. Also, I'm worried about emotionally connecting with someone the next time the sex isn't mediocre because I'm not looking to do that right now. Also I am fucking terrified of you emotionally connecting with someone else. Also, though it is not as bad as yours, I too am feeling jealous and it sucks. Also, when I get jealous I get kind of desperate and you get laid a bunch, so you are winning jealousy even though it is also making you miserable. So what if we just try being monogamous for like even two weeks and then see what happens." Then we negotiated for like 5 days about being monogamous. Now we are monogamous.

I am not totally stoked about the monogamy, but it was def the right move for now. I've been able to see a lot of things about polyamory and my own jealousy that were being obscured by the emotional cliff I kept falling off of while jealous. I realized I was carrying around a low-level anxiety at all times about her hooking up with other people. I didn't even notice the anxiety until it was gone. I do truly miss trying to bang 45-year-old divorcees from the internet while their husbands have their kids.

Some insights: I got into polyamory with my last gf specifically to solve the problem of her horrifying and tragic illness and our glaring sexual differences. I'm told she is now an extremely savage dom. Before that I had been poly one other time with someone who lived in a different city on a don't ask don't tell basis. I had never really considered what I might want from polyamory or how I might want to do it. Actually, I realized I had never considered what I might want from romantic or sexual relationships at all.

I went from dating someone who was mostly introverted, very loyal, and mostly interested in using polyamory to be a stripper and satisfy sexual wants that I had no interest in to someone who was extremely flirty and extroverted who had seriously dated multiple other partners over the course of her 5 year marriage where her husband also had serious other partners. I had also just finished reading the latest polyamory books, which all more or less endorse "relationship anarchy" which is the most extreme form of polyamory. Here's my summary of relationship anarchy: "Your partner catches the eye of someone at a party from across the room. They smile at each other. If you are not prepared to move in and spend the rest of your fucking life sharing your and your partner's most intimate moments and secrets with this person, then I guess you weren't really polyamorous after all. More like Ethical Loser."

Turns out I don't really want to have 85 girlfriends after all. Turns out I really just want to get laid. Whoops.

More specifically, I realized my romantic relationship needs are pretty low and pretty easily satisfied by one person that I really like. I still don't think I want to be sexually monogamous with one person for any great length of time, but I'm not sure how long "any great length of time is." The old version was "if you love this person, monogamy forever..." and then the new version "not even for one single solitary second..." so somewhere in between those two.

I also created a hierarchy of relationship needs, which is consequently my relationship escalator:

1. Sex. Like probably we go on a date or two first or whatever. This is also the only thing on the list that is a need.
2. Friendship/ some emotional connection. Basically friends with benefits. Some low-level emotional support similar to what I would give a close though not "best" friend (best friends get like family level support from me). Like if your dog dies, I'll be like "hey I'm sorry your dog died. Do you want me to come over at the end of your 3-day bender and watch you throw up a bunch and not judge you for it." This is the level of partnership that I'm usually seeking.
3. Emotional support/ strong emotional connection. This is where you become a candidate for a serious girlfriend, which basically means I think you're awesome and am probably falling in love with you. This is nice when it happens, but I don't need it to be happy. It's usually pretty intense when it happens and leads to long-lasting relationships. If your dog dies I'm coming over and like actually taking care of you so you don't just go on a three day bender.
4. Partnership. This is sharing life shit like moving in together or sharing a lot of free time/ meals/ some resources. You are in each others lives in a day to day way and support is now somewhat economic (like splitting groceries) and not just emotional. Moving in is the top of the escalator for me, since I don't believe in getting married, though I'm not 100% I want to move in with someone again. This is nice when it happens, though I'm cautious about all aspects of this stage and things have to be explicitly negotiated and talked about a lot or I won't do it. I don't require it from other people if they don't want it. I'm still kind of figuring out what success at this level looks like because my last relationship was successful at this stage until it wasn't.


Relationship escalators are notoriously difficult to go back down, but I'm hoping to be able to de-escalate or leave if one of the lower levels is being met while I'm at one of the upper levels. Which basically means I don't want to get trapped with a live-in girlfriend where we don't have sex again, but also I don't want to offer someone an economically advantageous romantic partnership when they're not being emotionally supportive or be emotionally supportive to someone I don't feel I have a strong connection with. It's also a reminder to myself to keep things sexy even after you've lived with someone for awhile. Despite my insistence that I need to constantly be dating 8 of the most promiscuous divorcees this side of the Mississippi, I am actually a total romantic and have been completely guilty of being all roses and cuddling and forgetting to be the funny and kind of mean person that they were first attracted to.


It’s also been nice to realize that it’s possible to be a total romantic and an unrepentant creep.

Anywho, I could probably go on about what it’s like to negotiate monogamy or the strange vagaries of jealousy and dependency, but I think this is probably enough for now.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Interesting. I am just getting back into polyamory post-Covid. I’ve been up and down the relationship elevator, inclusive of 20 year marriage, but at this phase of my life I have almost zero interest in long term Hansel and Gretel monogamy. I mean, tying yourself down to build a family nest makes good sense to me, but otherwise it seems like overkill. OTOH, maybe I’m full of shit, because I feel like I have very little internal drive towards pair-bond relative to my sex and maternal drives, yet I historically almost always have a husband or BF. IOW, I’m sexual and I am sentimental, but I’m not very romantic. In fact, you and me against the world seems kind of like a fucked up motto to me, because I like just being me AND I like the world too.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

Interesting.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 4:33 pm
maybe I’m full of shit, because I feel like I have very little internal drive towards pair-bond relative to my sex and maternal drives, yet I historically almost always have a husband or BF.
Why do you think this is?
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 4:33 pm
IOW, I’m sexual and I am sentimental, but I’m not very romantic. In fact, you and me against the world seems kind of like a fucked up motto to me,
Is that what you think romance is? It seems like a fucked up motto to me too. I meant I like dumpster diving flowers and planning extravagant dates, but I only want to do that for someone I know I already like a lot.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 4:33 pm
I have almost zero interest in long term Hansel and Gretel monogamy.
This is what I always think, but it keeps happening to me, so maybe I am full of shit too.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Jin+Guice:

Well, first off, I was just grumbling a bit when I typed the above.

I am reading a book on mind mapping by the author of “Passionate Marriage.” According to this science, it’s likely that other people with whom you interact good deal have better idea of your worst, most dysfunctional, traits or behaviors than you do yourself. So, I asked soon to be ex SO about my worst trait, and he said “You behave like a 6 year old, and I find that very annoying.” He also demonstrated how I flop myself down in a chair. Then the next day I was wearing a Sesame Street t-shirt and he said “That t-shirt is so you.” So, I suddenly realized that my primary Ne, tertiary Fe externally manifests a lot like Ernie. Ergo, the reason why I am almost always in a relationship is that there are a lot of grouchy old Berts out there. So, I am often happier when I dump Bert and find myself briefly alone again in the tub singing a cheerful song to my rubber ducky.

RoamingFrancis
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:43 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by RoamingFrancis »

I'll jump in the thread. @J+G, sounds like you're doing a good deal of self reflection and making progress towards understanding what sorts of relationships make you happy. That's great!

I've been interested in polyamory for quite a long time, but haven't explored at all. I was raised in an anti-sex religious environment, and refer to myself as a "recovering Cathoholic." That meant I didn't get much sexual exploration done in my teenage years. Now that I'm vaccinated and things are opening back up, my main hurdle is meeting people. I am confident once I'm in conversation with someone I like, but finding those people is tricky. I'm not a fan of dating apps, and I live on a pretty isolated farm. Any ideas, o wise forumites?

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

At your age any situation that resembles a college town environment would be your best bet. For better or worse, dating apps are prevalent these days, but they work much better for even old women than young men. Identical twins separated at birth studies indicate that who we end up with as partners is more random beyond proximity than many other outcomes. Dating apps tend to magnify this effect by removing some proximity barriers. It can be tricky to figure out how to remove proximity barriers on your own without engaging in activities that you wouldn’t choose if not looking for partner(s.) Therefore, especially for men, in either virtual or live context, it often devolves to a numbers game.

chenda
Posts: 3289
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by chenda »

RoamingFrancis wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:07 pm
Any ideas, o wise forumites?
Maybe a Catholic dating app ?

User avatar
Ego
Posts: 6359
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Ego »

RoamingFrancis wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:07 pm
I'm not a fan of dating apps, and I live on a pretty isolated farm. Any ideas, o wise forumites?
Make sure to mention this to the people you interact with regularly and let them know you are open to their suggestions wrt potential partners. We have friends who we believe would make good couples but find it presumptuous to make suggestions on their love lives if they haven't mentioned they are open to it.

RoamingFrancis
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:43 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by RoamingFrancis »

A college town sounds like just the place I should move to.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:14 am
Identical twins separated at birth studies indicate that who we end up with as partners is more random beyond proximity than many other outcomes.
What do you mean?

@chenda, I use the phrase "recovering Cathoholic" in the same way someone would refer to them as a "recovering alcoholic." Meaning, I was raised Catholic, had a negative experience in the church, and am no longer Catholic.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@RoamingFrancis:

Twins separated at birth are far more likely to choose similar careers and brands of beer than similar spouses. The same rule of thumb holds true for individuals choosing first and second spouse. However, it is likely to choose within your own social circle or peer group or simply those humans with whom you have social proximity at time of choosing.

MMV, but my experience with internet dating is that it tends to teleport me outside of proximity circle defined by my own habits. This may also be somewhat generational, but I think there is some level of gender differential, because men usually pick me up in their cars and take me away to their realms of activity rather than vice-versa. Actually, because I do have the Explorer personality type, that is one aspect of dating I enjoy.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

@RF: Why don't you like dating apps? I was embarrassed to use them and now I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm somewhat good at them. There are several things about dating apps and websites that advantage me personally.

Whether or not you are good at them, they seem ideal for your situation. There are a lot of steps to the dating process that can go wrong, but for your if you're not in contact with available women you are screwed from the beginning. So unless you are outnumbered by isolated female farmhands you either have to give dating apps a shot or find an IRL location where you can meet and easily talk to attractive available women.

white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by white belt »

To the polyamorists on here, how do the logistics work on where you spend time with partners and have sex? It seems that cohabitation with one partner would introduce challenges for other partners, especially if they are also cohabiting with others.

I don’t quite consider myself polyamorous as much as I just am sleeping around at the moment, but I’m coming to the realization that one downside of my current living arrangement is I believe it will be difficult to have sex in my bedroom. I will need to have another talk with my roommates but they mentioned that sound travels in the house and a previous resident in my room shook the entire house when they had a partner over (forgot to ask about overnight guests before moving in). Further challenge is they are almost always home due to working from home (but that may change soon) and I get the vibe that as homebody females who rarely drink or go out, they are much less sexually active than me.

Of course the easy solution is to go to a partner’s house, but that’s not always feasible. I like the other aspects of community living, but most houses do not have the sound insulation needed for privacy (another reason I’d like to rebuild a decrepit old house which is already down to studs so I can add sound insulation). The market solution would be to rent a hotel/Airbnb when I need it or pay the extra $300-400 a month to get a studio (no hope of getting near 1 JAFI with either of those options).

User avatar
Jean
Posts: 1890
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Switzterland

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jean »

I was always happy for my roomates when i heard them having sex. Are you sure your roomates would feel different about it?

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

If you can get yourself and all your partners past the jealousy, it becomes clear that the real struggle of polyamory is logistics. Love and sexual attraction may be infinite, but time, attention and energy are not.

The cohabitation problem is common and there are a range of solutions. I think, broadly these are: You personally have access to another place, you date only people who have access to a place, or you negotiate with your partner so they are out of the house when you have dates (an obvious trade is that you will sometimes leave for them).


Some of these solutions would work for you, but, also, why? What is your communal living situation? I've never lived alone and I've never lived in a place where bringing sexual partners home is unacceptable? And ya, you can hear it when someone is getting laid, if they aren't being quiet about it. I dunno we just always high-fived and were like "oh shit Roxanne went home with that cute film guy she was flirting with, I hope that dude's pancakes are better than his puns."

IME, women usually have nicer places than men, so unless you are dating exclusively married women, why can't you just go back to their place?

The other solution would be to move into the $300-$400 a month studio or bite the bullet and use that plus what you are paying now in rent to get a really swank bachelor pad (if having this would significantly up your game/ make your life better, it might be worth coming in at 1.5 JAFI or whatever).

RoamingFrancis
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:43 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by RoamingFrancis »

@J+G Mainly because I have never had any success with them. I do pretty well in in-person interactions, and have always just preferred to maximize those. As 7W5 said, relocating to a place with college town vibes is likely my best bet.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

“white belt” wrote: To the polyamorists on here, how do the logistics work on where you spend time with partners and have sex? It seems that cohabitation with one partner would introduce challenges for other partners, especially if they are also cohabiting with others.
It’s a logistical problem if you are just sleeping around, but it’s also a psychological/emotional space/attachment problem if you are in more than one intimate relationship.

In “A Pattern Language” the authors discuss how to meet the basic needs for sociability/intimacy/privacy at the levels of community/family/couple/individual through thoughtful design of space and architecture. When you practice polyamory, you need a somehow different space for each “couple” in which you are partner. For instance, the fact that two of the men I was dating were both fairly frequently taking me out to the same restaurant became an issue for me, because one of them really started communicating that he thought of it as an “our space.” So, I actually started favoring a particular booth with him to differentiate from other random table I might eat at with other partner.

Now that I have my own tiny apartment, which happens to have an odd/frugal overnight guests only 2 nights/week stipulation in lease, I am leaning towards either inviting zero partners into my space or just 1. I don’t want to TMI those who don’t practice polyamory, but I’m also considering how/if this will overlap with choice of zero or only 1 fluid partner. Logistically, it makes more sense to have fluid partner not also be partner who has occasional access to my solo space, because in my peer group the only men I might partner who do not have their own solo space would be men who live with other partners already who would therefore not be my fluid partner for that reason.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:50 pm
It’s a logistical problem if you are just sleeping around, but it’s also a psychological/emotional space/attachment problem if you are in more than one intimate relationship.
The of this is when it manifests itself in highly individualistic and strange unpredictable ways (and my god, it totally will, most notably in yourself). For example @7 has mentioned that she is uncomfortable sharing physical space with partners (even if that space is public), but this is not true for everyone. It's highly possible for someone else to be totally fine with you doing the most degenerate acts with your 15 other partners in the bed you share with them and then completely lose their mind bc you chatted casually with someone whom you hope to make out with near their beloved deceased grandmother's quilt.

Or for someone who is otherwise totally against anything but the strictest monogamy to be totally fine with you doing hand stuff on Tuesday, bc everyone knows that Tuesday is the day of the liberated hand and, WAIT, BUT WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU MADE EYE CONTACT, IT IS NOT THE DAY OF THE LIBERATED EYE, EVERYONE KNOWS THIS AND IT IS OBVIOUS!
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:50 pm
but I’m also considering how/if this will overlap with choice of zero or only 1 fluid partner. Logistically, it makes more sense to have fluid partner not also be partner who has occasional access to my solo space...
Fluid Bonding: The monogamy of polyamory.

Post Reply