Polyamory Support Group

Simple living, extreme early retirement, becoming and being wealthy, wisdom, praxis, personal growth,...
white belt
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by white belt »

Thanks for the comments everyone. It turns it out it was a bit of a miscommunication with my roommates and I am fine to have partners over, they just asked that I be respectful and understand sound travels very far in the house.

@J+G

At my last location I actually had a bachelor pad studio that came in at $500 a month including all utilities. It was a great little apartment and I could be as loud as I want (or rather the girls could be as loud as they want). My neighbor even commented that I was always so quiet even though I had girls literally yelling frequently, but I guess she never heard it in her apartment.

Unfortunately, moving to my current HCOL metro priced me out of such an arrangement. I ultimately opted for a room with my own bathroom in a shared house for $800 a month rather than paying ~$1200-1300 a month for a studio in a building. I also wanted access to the yard and outdoor space for some projects which wouldn't have been possible in a high rise and I thought having roommates would help me to develop my IRL social network.

I'm not convinced that having a swank bachelor pad would up my game at the moment until I develop more social connections. I have a good friend with a swank bachelor pad ($2k a month, high rise, private balcony, jaw dropping lobby, rooftop patio area) and he seems to have just as much trouble dating here as I do, despite being objectively better looking than me (e.g. I have seen very attractive girls literally throw themselves at him on multiple occasions in bars). But likewise he is still struggling to develop his social network.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

@white belt: Oh ya, I think a swank bachelor pad is pretty low on the list of amorous assets. Honestly, it's probably the worst ROI of anything that would still actually be a positive asset. You're also talking to a dude who has always lived w/ roommates and who currently lives in an RV.

I just meant if your roommate situation is so bad that you have to pay for another place, why not combine the money and just have 1 place that is swank.

Why are you having trouble dating and making social connections? I thought you were a ripped charmer with a lucrative military career? Did you move to Dallas or some equally horrifying car/ career metropolis?

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Finally, a graphical explanation!




Image

chenda
Posts: 3289
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by chenda »

@7wannabe5 haha thats a great graphic...

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

Fun fact: There is an entire website dedicated to why the dude who made that chart is piece of shit and a terrible dom....

"More Than Two" still slaps though... probably better than old Frankie V.

RoamingFrancis
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:43 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Just commenting that I am now exploring polyamory as well. Not looking for reading material, but have begun thinking of myself as a polyamorous person for the purposes of the experiment.

Edit: I suspect I will land on the "monogamish" area of the graph AKA "sex but not love." We'll see how things unfold.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Interesting essay from New York Magazine I happened upon. It has also been my experience that polyamorous dating sites are (over) loaded with men who are looking for "hotwifing" which leads to a very complex power dynamic.

https://www.thecut.com/2022/01/rachel-k ... cerpt.html

I also recently watched an episode of "Midsomer Murders" in which a threesome between two middle-aged men and a middle-aged woman was featured. The middle-aged female was murdered, and one of her male partners told the investingating officer, "I will miss her very much, like I would miss a favorite cricket bat." :lol: Clearly, a role not yet well-respected by society relative to growing popularity.

enigmaT120
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by enigmaT120 »

I love that show but I missed that episode.

llorona
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:44 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by llorona »

Apropos of nothing, I joined a local sex-positive poly community last fall that's basically full of a thousand Burners. I learned that I really don't want to attend orgies or have sex with strangers.

chenda
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Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by chenda »

@7wannabe5 Great article. I think there is some evidence that women are more likely to have homosexual leanings than men. Although that may be partially because its much more socially acceptable for women to 'experiment' due to men's peculiar infatuation with girl-on-girl action, which doesn't really exist vice-versa.

Shortly before covid I went to what might be loosly described as a sex club, with a friend who's into that scene. Threesomes, BDSM, orgies etc. you name it, she's tried it.

It was an interesting but slightly odd experience. I didn't participate in anything, though you very quickly become desensitised to what's going on. At one point I was giving advice on loft insulation to a guy whilst a women was getting spit-roasted right in front of us. Which created an odd dichotomy but it was curiously unerotic seeing it in front of you. Watching porn was actually more of a turn on. YMMV

Overall I don't think it's my scene but each to their own.

ether
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by ether »

chenda wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:37 pm
At one point I was giving advice on loft insulation to a guy whilst a women was getting spit-roasted right in front of us.
Nothing more erotic than carpentry, amiright!

RoamingFrancis
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:43 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by RoamingFrancis »

ether wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:52 pm
Nothing more erotic than carpentry, amiright!
I mean, at an ERE sex club there would probably be more talk about carpentry than actual sex. :lol:

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

“chenda” wrote: which doesn't really exist vice-versa.
Sez who? ;)
“RoamingFrancis” wrote: at an ERE sex club there would probably be more talk about carpentry than actual sex. :lol:
And likely a good deal of hand-wringing over safe withdrawal rate.

chenda
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Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by chenda »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:33 pm
Sez who? ;)
Fair point :D

Given the context I think I was taking his interest in getting wood and cantilevers a bit too literally.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

chenda wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:37 pm
At one point I was giving advice on loft insulation to a guy whilst a women was getting spit-roasted right in front of us.

This is, without a doubt, my favorite part of going to orgies.

candide
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by candide »

Recently read this in a book, couldn't resist:
Polyamory is wrong!
It is either multiamory or polyphilia, but mixing Greek and Latin roots?
Wrong!
The book, The Prodigal Tongue by Lynne Murphy, claimed this was spotted on a shirt. Golly, there are some nerdy T-shirts.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@chenda posted this related to the discussion in my journal.

On a list of 149 countries‘ Gini indices (link to CIA World Factbook), the female dating economy is the 75th most unequal (think European Union). The male dating economy is the 8th most unequal (think Subsaharan failed state).

Another study on Tinder showed that “the bottom 80% of men in terms of attractiveness) are competing for their bottom 22% of women, and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men.”

The second conclusion from these studies clearly reveal a female preference for polygyny — a social system where a small percentage of men monopolize the mating opportunities with almost all females, and many other males have no access to mates...In fact, polygyny is the natural state of nature for most species. And while humans have been able to create social structures to enforce monogamy, once we log on to dating apps, we enter a world built on shadows of the social structures of our primeval savannah ancestors.
https://medium.com/@bellehookwrite/attr ... 0cbee8e4db

I moved it to this thread, because I also wanted to share this Stoa interview with Janet Bennion, an expert on anthropology and polyamory, which touches on same topic in Q&A section:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIilq3IiDsw

One of the points made in the article is the irony inherent in the fact that those who are least likely to be in favor of socially-enforced redistribution of financial wealth are most likely to benefit from socially-enforced redistribution of sexual wealth and vice-versa. In the Q&A section of the video, a young man who argues as advocate for Jordan Peterson's perspective, suggests that rule of monogamy benefits society because otherwise many angry young men, and Bennion replies with suggestion that maybe it isn't fair to limit the freedom of females, and the discussion almost becomes transcendent of this irony or dichotomy.
The third — and perhaps most grim conclusion — we can draw from this data is that, on average, in a monogamous society, woman will be paired with an unattractive man.
The differing Gini coefficients faced by men and women guarantee that this outcome will the most common romantic pairing in a monogamous culture.
I wondered whether the author of the article was trying to inject some sly, dark humor with this observation. There is an old maxim along the lines of "ugly men make the best husbands" that contains a nugget of truth. Also, most conventional guides aimed at audience of females who are looking for marriage offer advice along the lines of "give the guy who isn't immediately attractive to you a chance to grow on you." OTOH, a fairly obvious feminist observation might be that maybe men still haven't learned to accomodate themselves to the "feminine gaze" in the way that women have accomodated themselves to the "masculine gaze." IOW, maybe only 20% of men are making the effort to learn what heterosexual women most often find attractive in dating context and manifest it. However, if it is the case that one quality most heterosexual females find attractive is "dominant signaling" then this will always be relative, so finding one's niche would be one tactic. For instance, a friend of my daughter had a terrible boyfriend who was the Chad-Dominant of the super-nerdy-chubby-kids.


On somewhat different topic, more relevant to ERE, in the video, Bennion also notes that those in power may not be in favor of polyamorous society, because it takes away from worker bee initiative. IOW, if societal expectation was that adult humans should have approximately 3 loving relationships, as opposed to 3 hook-up partners, then this would seriously impact time to make money. IOW, if you are looking for ways to fill your time post-FI, the practice of polyamory will definitely help.

Bonde
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 5:21 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Bonde »

There is some interesting Danish statistics on this:
The younger generations started having children later than the older birth cohorts. 25 per cent of the men from the birth cohort of 1950 had not become fathers when they turned 35, while the corresponding figure for the birth cohort from 1955 was 30 per cent, and 34 per cent. for the men from the year 1980.
Men become parents to a lesser extent than women. Around one in five men do not have children, while the same applies to one in eight women.
Highly educated men have more children. Among 50-year-old men with primary school as the highest completed education, 69 per cent children. Among men with a vocational education, 81 per cent children, and among men with a long higher education, 86 per cent children.
Men have children to a greater extent if they have a high degree of occupational activity. Among the economically active, the proportion with children increases according to income level. The same does not apply to women.
More men than women become parents when they are 40 and over. For all children born in 2019, 4 per cent of the mothers aged 40 and over, while this was the case for 13 per cent. of the fathers.
However, 83 per cent had of all children born in 2019 to fathers who were between 25 and 39 years old. The corresponding proportion for mothers was 86 per cent. 1 percent of the fathers were aged 50 and over.
Google translate from https://www.dst.dk/da/Statistik/nyheder ... ?cid=41883

The data cannot tell the reasons behind these changes. I suspect that increased wealth, more but not fully acceptance of LGBTQ, and metoo have influenced our behavior to be less traditional and more open to other ways of living and prioritising one's life than mating and having a family. I think the movement(s) is even more extreme in Japan.

AnalyticalEngine
Posts: 949
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

One interesting thing I've noticed about polyamory[1] is that it indicates a shift in the role property and money play in relationships. The people I've seen who practice it[2] often have their own jobs/wealth/life/independence/etc and therefore see less of a need to rely on their spouse's income for their lifestyle. This is in pretty huge contrast to monogamous marriage, which has a massive legal component about sharing property, custody of children, etc.

I think now that the economy no longer consists of "inherit land, have children to work fields, die of plague," we're seeing massive shifts in relationship preferences/behaviors that focus on what people enjoy vs what you have to do for economy survival. Hence the rise of LGBT acceptance, childfree, poly, single by choice, single not so much by choice, etc, all of which are enabled by the industrial economy and the fact Safeway can feed you instead of the peasant fields.

[1] I am not poly but I am increasingly meeting a lot of people who are when I go to meetup events.
[2] There seems to be a distinction between types of poly relationships. I notice there is sometimes "married man + woman seek third" vs being completely unmarried/unattached to a primary partner.

chenda
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Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by chenda »

Very interesting discussion. Jordan Petersen asserts that monogamy has reduced violence in western society as compared to other societies. He says this is an 'obvious fact' and whilst he cites some kind of study which purports to demonstrate this, it seems a highly speculative claim at best. I don't know how you could begin to objectively prove it.

As one of the commentators points out, if both men and women practice polyamory in equal numbers, the impact on the 'incels' and beta men is going to be cost neutral. Indeed the ideological inversion, monogamy as a form of sexual socialism vs the free market of polyamory, might be better understood as developing into a 'mixed economy' where a wide variety of sexual options are available.

Bennion equates monogamy with monotheism and the development of agricultural societies, although I'm not sure that's true. China and India are amongst the oldest agricultural societies and have remained largely Polytheistic. The Christian/Muslim 'ours is the only true god' type of monotheism is something of a historical aberration, and their dominance may reflect the popularity of doomsday cults during the decline and fall of Rome. As an aside, Islam has traditionally permitted Polygyny in certain circumstances, although not, afaik, Polyandry.

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