Polyamory Support Group

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
7Wannabe5
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

It will soon be possible to create embryos that share the genetic characteristics of more than 2 humans of any combination of gender. Possible option for those who are frugal to the extent that they only want maybe 1/8th financial responsibility for an offspring?

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C40
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by C40 »

wow. It's like the idea some Native American* groups had - of Partible Paternity - coming true in real life. Sort of. I gotta imagine that's going to be really expensive, and not actually a good choice for people who want only partial responsibility of a child for frugal reasons.

*and likely some others around the world

7Wannabe5
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@C40:

It’s not quite ready for prime time yet. I happened upon it in a book on heredity I just finished reading. In 2012, Shinya Yamanaka won the Nobel Prize for figuring out how to turn somatic skin cells back into pluripotent stem cells (cells which have the potential to become any other kind of cells.) Skin cells from mice have been transformed into eggs and sperm through this process. So, a skin cell from a male can be used to make both eggs and sperm. If a woman wanted to carry a baby that contained 1/4 genetic material from herself and three men, two zygotes could be formed and then the cells from the two zygotes could also be rendered pluripotent and combined into one embryo to be implanted. In some sense, the child would be the genetic equivalent of a mutual grandchild of the foursome. Given current ability to identify some simple characteristics, the foursome could also choose whose eyes, which tendency towards baldness, and totally negate some known to be harmful genes.

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jennypenny
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by jennypenny »

The adage 'Too many cooks spoil the soup' comes to mind.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@jp:

Lol- I also had the thought that it could greatly magnify the current lopsided curve of financial status of children. One child might end up inheriting the accumulated wealth of 4 different sets of Boomer grandparents.

ether
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by ether »

Isn't there a federal ban in the USA on genetically modifying embryos?
Not arguing either way but even China has made the practice illegal, and it was a pretty noble goal of making children immune to HIV
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/12 ... years-jail

7Wannabe5
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Yeah, but the science is advancing much faster than the law. Not trying to scare anybody, but theoretically somebody could just nab some of your skin cells and have your child without your permission.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by ZAFCorrection »

I'm curious if the "it's all about the child" argument for child support would hold up even in that case.

Alphaville
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Alphaville »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:54 pm
Yeah, but the science is advancing much faster than the law. Not trying to scare anybody, but theoretically somebody could just nab some of your skin cells and have your child without your permission.
GOOD LUCK RAISING IT :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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C40
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by C40 »

jennypenny wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:06 am
The adage 'Too many cooks spoil the soup' comes to mind.
Absolutely. There's also the problem of "if no one person (or household) is responsible, then no one is". The idea of partial paternity seemed to work (very) well in groups of people that lived more communally and caring for children was done communally. For us modern people, and especially how most live in the U.S..... no

Jin+Guice
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

C40 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:26 pm
My strategy related to this is now to cross off any potential partner from consideration if they tell me they go to swingers clubs.
Haha, a wise strategy. I've talked to several people about this topic. People who have opinions about swingers, but aren't themselves swingers, usually view them negatively. The reasons given are that they are too conservative and homophobic. I've never heard anyone complain about the lack of intimacy but, now that you mention it, I think it's true. From what I've observed, swinging is still about reinforcing the couple, so people aren't necessarily looking for intimacy, the assumption being that they've already found it with their partner.

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C40
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by C40 »

There's just something different about (a lot of) the folks that are really into swinging and clubs. Including the single/unattached ones. I suppose I would agree that they are more conservative... Hadn't thought of homophobia but perhaps(?)

It's all a little strange and fascinating, because you end up with different groups/camps/types of people who are non-monogamy, with different common traits and behaviors. You've got:
1- Swingers
2- Polyamorous
3- Ethically Non-Monogamous
4- 'cheaters'
5- Folks who just happen to date a few people at a time while looking for a partner
....(?)

Group 1 does often have lack of intimacy, but it's about more than or something other than them having essentially the one main partner and the others who are just for sex. Because some of the people in all the other groups above do that as well, but want and have more intimacy

7Wannabe5
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

6- Players- people who “just happen” to date a few people at the same time while NOT looking for a partner.

Maybe for primarily heterosexual men “swingers” come off like “players” have always come off to primarily heterosexual females? I mean the barriers to intimacy that male players erect on auto-pilot can often be chuckle-worthy in their obviousness.

Jason

Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jason »


Jin+Guice
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

It's been about 6 months since my last update and there have been a lot of changes. I've been reluctant to post because I'm not being a very responsible coronavirus participant which is evidenced in my dating activity. Even though this group has nothing to do with polyamory, I've realized that sharing the details of my new found polyamorous life with (otherwise) like minded internet strangers is a net gain in my life. I'm willing to endure the quaranshaming for quaransharing if that's what the frugal masses decide to provide me with.

My girlfriend has continued seeing her other partner and they've now been together for about 9 months. I met him and his long-term girlfriend for an arranged dinner several months ago, so I can cross that awkward life experience off the list. She's continued her reversal from "polyamory is terrible and I hate it and you are a total scumbag for wanting to do this" to "polyamory is the best and I can never go back." I've spent some time reflecting on this. I realized that I'd tried to change someone and actually succeeded at it. I was worried because I don't want to be someone who sets out to change or fix romantic partners. I realized that I'd always been able to see the sexual deviant in my girlfriend and this was my reason for sticking it out with her. She is very conflicted between an extremely traditional Southern Baptist upbringing and her conservative family against her sexuality, sex work and drug use. I wasn't sure she'd be able to embrace that part of herself, but I could always see it in there and I'm glad I gave her time and space to work it out, even though it did irreparable damage to our relationship.

I started meeting internet strangers for dates in mid-May. I pretty immediately met a married chick who I started dating. The relationship escalated very quickly, which I don't think either of us anticipated. In hindsight, I wish we'd gone a little slower, but it hasn't been a problem so far. She is the most extroverted person I've ever dated. She's very socially intelligent, which is not what I'm used to dating, and I had trouble trusting her in the beginning of the relationship. Part of me still finds something untrustworthy, but as she's shown herself to be honest throughout months of dating her I've been able to trust her more. She is very polyamorous and goes out with and sleeps with other people regularly. I've been getting jealous again (naively I thought I'd beaten jealousy after being in open relationships with two other serious partners, but I guess it sneaks up on you when you least expect it), which sucks. Otherwise the relationship is going really well, we are still in the honeymoon phase so it's hard to know, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the future. She is very experienced in polyamory and kink so she's been breaking me into those worlds slowly.

I've been dating a few other people but nothing major has developed with anyone. It's somewhat frustrating to be the half of the couple is massively less successful at dating, but it's difficult not to be in that position if you are going to be a straight dude who's polyamorous and sees anyone, so I'm working on dealing with that too.

I broke up with my girlfriend of 8 years at the end of August. In the course of about a week she switched from begrudgingly allowing me to have other partners, while promising that I would not develop a single feeling for them or date anyone who was very available, to being 100% all in on polyamory. At first this was great, she had another partner she really liked who was willing to provide her with experiences that I am totally uninterested in. Restrictive rules were lifted and she lost the existential sadness and anger that she'd had since I started dating other women 10 months prior. Then she started pushing back on rules. This created a near perfect experiment in how each of us treated the other when we want something. Reading that last sentence over, I can see that's the point where we were doomed.

After 10 months of having rule after rule imposed on me and 6 months of therapy, I was able to clearly state boundaries and articulate simple rules that placed barriers in the places I wanted them. This was met with extreme resistance, not taking my rules or nos seriously and constant harassment to lift my restrictions or negotiate around them. Most of my restrictions involved not using our shared living space for dates or, later after some concessions, not being sexiled from our house. As coronavirus hit my girlfriend also tried to impose rules on me about who I could see, after continuing to see her other boyfriend who is an ER doctor who was consistently exposed to coronavirus (he was using PPE and began getting tested frequently after several months, when testing was available). The rules she demanded I follow (backed with moral justification about the pandemic) were very advantageous to her and, I later discovered, were subject to some parameters her other boyfriend was placing on his partners.

I was beginning to become frustrated with her dismissal of rules and also growing resentful over the barrage of ever changing rules imposed upon me over the past 10 months. Then she screwed me over by staying out all night with her other boyfriend the night before my birthday and not being very present on my birthday. At the time we were quarantining very strictly, only seeing one other person each and not seeing any friends. Birthdays are important to me and I usually throw a huge party, so I was pretty bummed out about this year. I'd specifically asked her to be mentally/ socially present for my birthday (she is usually not after she stays up all night with her other partner, which is usually fine) and she'd agreed. When she showed up clearly out of it and proceeded to take a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day, I was very hurt. She is generally an honest and trustworthy person who is very good at "adulting," and this was a major breach of trust and not consistent with her usual behavior.

The breach of trust caused a major rift. There'd been a lot of agreements that she'd ignored or broken in small ways over the years. There'd been a lot of "misunderstandings" which I had chalked up to my own poor communication skills and different negotiating/ communication styles. Her breaking an explicit agreement made me question how much of this was really a misunderstanding and how much of it was somewhat manipulative. This lead to about a month of fighting, after which I suggested we break up. She said she didn't want to, admitted to making a mistake and asked to try to work on fixing it. At this point I was VERY resentful and not sure I could, but I agreed to try. Over the next several months our communication improved slightly but she continued to push boundaries and break small agreements. Every time this happened I became extremely mad and we had really bad screaming fights, which is not something that is normal for us or that either of us are comfortable with.

After again suggesting we break up we went back to couples therapy. I was also discussing the issues with my own therapist. I "graduated" therapy in mid-June as my therapist felt that we had discussed most of the issues I'd come into discuss (which were actually not relationship oriented). Couples therapy did not go well. I was having trouble voicing my needs and I felt the framework the therapist laid out was: 1) You can assume no social mores or unspoken agreements, if you haven't discussed something beforehand it is almost always ok; 2) Agreements are fine, but you must be open to modifying them and you should be flexible about modifying them; 3) Handle all problems "in the moment," and don't bring up past conflict or instances of the same problem (sort of including past agreements?). I can see how not focusing on the past is important for good and honest communication and problem solving, but I was unable to get the therapist to provide a way where I felt like I could set and enforce boundaries. Between sessions of, somewhat exasperatedly, trying to work this out with our therapist, my girlfriend broke another explicit agreement and we had an explosive fight and I broke up with her.

I've been pretty upset about it since. After I made it clear that I'm moving out, my girlfriend suggested we keep seeing each other but not live together. I'm not sure what we're going to do. I haven't been talking to her, but on the few occasions that I had to we got in fights ~2/3 of the time. We've have 2 cats that I'm very attached to, which will live with her since she owns the house we live in where they were born, so I'm going to have some communication with her to arrange the logistics of seeing them (kind of grossed out that I'm now a "pet visitation" person). I'm not sure if I want to keep seeing her or not or what that would look like. Right now I'm not talking to her about anything but logistics through the end of October.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by classical_Liberal »

Sorry to read about the relationship ending. Eight years is a long time, I imagine it's pretty sad.

Miss Lonelyhearts
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Miss Lonelyhearts »

As you describe it, your (ex?)partner’s behavior seems strongly inclined towards nonverbal acts that say “Fuck you,” followed by denials that that was what she meant. She may even believe she’s being truthful when she says this.

Your couples therapist’s guidelines seem well intentioned, and especially well suited to in-the-moment conflict resolution. For therapy itself though (the actual meetings), was there not an opportunity to say “I feel chronically resentful because I’ve lost trust that you have my best interests at heart”? If not, insufficiently therapeutic.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Sorry for your loss :(

Relationships are complex adaptive systems, so I think the points your therapist made were actually pretty good. However, as somebody who has had her own very bad couple's therapy experience, you have my empathy.

OTOH, if you are no longer shacked up with ex, I think you can now self-describe as "playing the field" rather than "polyamorous" if you think that might improve your straight guy dating opportunities.

I packed all of my earthly belongings into my Smart Car on Tuesday and drove north. So, I am currently "on the lam"* from my Covid lock-down-live-in relationship with the the last of my polyamours, although we remain on friendly terms. I am staying at a rent-by-the-month rural resort area motel, which I think is pretty safe for Covid. I talked to 3 different old guys on the hiking trails so far (at greater than 6 ft. distance), but highly doubtful that any of them were interested in me, because I am going through a chubby phase and I was wearing a garden/explorer hat and knee-high black wool socks which I "inherited" from my friend whom I helped with hospice. I wasn't trying to flirt, but sometimes when you are startled by a coyote, you feel the need to talk to somebody about it.



*his verbiage

Jin+Guice
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Jin+Guice »

Thanks for the condolences y'all. I am pretty sad.

A couple of interesting things that I hadn't considered for poly:

It makes breaking up difficult. There was a lot I wasn't getting from my gf, but it was easy to find it somewhere else. I'm glad I stayed with her and tried to make to work for so long, because think it will make me more inclined to value long-term relationships in the future and I now know a lot more what I want from them. However, I need to be wary of staying in relationships longer than they are serving me.

There's a possibility I may never be single again. This is good and bad. I spent a lot of my early 20s being very single. I had a long distance gf for <1 year from 19-25. I was also sleeping in parks or on couches most of the time between 22-25 and I moved to a city where I didn't know anyone. Early loneliness extreme. Still, I haven't been alone for 8 years and have lived with my gf for 7. I do wish I was able to spend some time single after this break up just to see what it's like again. There is the possibility, due to the opportunity for multiple gfs, that I'll never be single again. Fucking weird.

@Miss Lonelyhearts: That's what her actions felt like, but I think it's actually just a gaping blind spot that I'd failed to noticed and perhaps encouraged, due to weak boundaries and poor communication for years. It was unacceptable once I realized it was there. If we had continued therapy, I think I could have asked our therapist point blank how I was supposed to ask for things I needed, given the framework she presented.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:17 pm
OTOH, if you are no longer shacked up with ex, I think you can now self-describe as "playing the field" rather than "polyamorous" if you think that might improve your straight guy dating opportunities.
I'm struggling with this rn. Things are pretty serious with my new girlfriend who I've now been dating for 5 months. I introduce her as my girlfriend and, we don't have statuses currently, but we'd both be each other's primaries if we did. I would like to "play the field" for a bit, but I've been feeling conflicted about going out with women and not telling them I have another girlfriend. The easy explanation is that I just broke up with my girlfriend of 8 years and I'm not looking for anything serious and "seeing a bunch of people." I haven't dated single, non-poly women for 8 years so I'm not sure how often to expect getting slapped in the face... What do y'all think?

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Polyamory Support Group

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

Never mind what is sustainable in the long run from a relationship perspective, I again ask what time is left over from all of this juggling for your art? Even one woman seems to take up too much of my time. The perusing of online dating sites, the messaging back and forth, it’s just a gigantic time suck. Even when it becomes clear after 1-3 months that it is doomed, I feel I need to make it last 4-8 months just to get my money’s worth.

To me even the need for therapy indicates that a relationship is not worth salvaging. If I pour my heart out and am still misunderstood, what good is it to get a referee^H^H^H^Htherapist to explain it? Although if nothing else you know you tried as hard as you could and it could not be salvaged.

Congratulations on your freedom and I hope you pour whatever feelings into your music.



PS I got Covid from a woman and I do not regret it. Whether it’s scare stories about heart complications or testicle complications, I consider the government response along with the recent characterization of masculinity as toxic to be smothering and debilitating. Quite actually psychological warfare and a form of population control. I have purged most of what little gregarious instincts I had to begin with and women notice. No need for moral authorities. No need to care what anyone thinks. If you think the human population needs to be curtailed for the sake of the environment, then the virus is a blessing. Live your life.

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