Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

[vexed87]

Many people make a hot tub by putting a tub outsider and making a fire under it. That's fun but you Can find a wood water boiller for more comfort.

Why anyone would want to sit in a saucepan is beyond me.

[Seppia]

Most of my stuff is pretty old too, when it gets so old that its reduced usefulness starts bothering me, I usually try tolerating this for a few months at least and then replace it with something used.

A great example was my last laptop, I postponed replacement for a couple years, then when it became unbearable I just got a new (used) one for $300 that will last me another estimated 7-8 years.

On a per year basis, it’s so cheap it isn’t worth dealing with the inconvenience of a too old computer.

My point being: if not changing/upgrading is somehow making you miserable, you should probably upgrade.

The whole point is quality of life

[Jason]

Sometimes anticipating a thing can be more enjoyable than possessing the thing.

Like having kids, conception is usually better than reality.

[Gilberto de Piento]

But maybe that's also one more thing not quite right, which in sum, is bad. The adage that you don't realize how much hitting your head on the wall hurts, until you stop doing it.

Scott 2, it's interesting you bring this up right now because I've been feeling exactly the same way. For me, it's not really about having the "better" thing but avoiding the frustration of dealing with or keeping the "lesser" thing working. Someone mentioned life energy and I think I've hit the stage in life where I've realized that I'm running out of time both each day and over the arc of my life. I've got too many competing demands and not dealing with something like a computer that takes 30 seconds to load each new webpage is worth spending a few hundred dollars to avoid. It's not so bad when most things are working out and you just have one hassle to deal with but if a person's phone is junk, their computer is barely working, their car needs constant repairs, their house has ongoing issues, their bike is worn out all those issues combined can really be a drag on being able to get anything else done or have free time.

Not everything old will be a classic that still works like day one as long as it is maintained. For example, 20 year old cars in the rust belt are often garbage due to winter driving. Old phones and computers get too slow to use.

It's not just physical items either. I have a lot of one-off projects as well as day to day chores that have to get done. If I didn't have to work I could do all this stuff easily with plenty of time and energy left over but since I am not early retired MMM it turns out remodeling a house while keeping all the other plates in the air is not a fun learning experience but mostly a stressful timesuck. I'm learning to at least get estimates so you can make an informed decision.

[George the original one]

Old phones and computers get too slow to use.

Software compatibility issues, too, if you have any desire to interact with other people. Have you tried sharing WordStar or SuperCalc files from the '80s with anyone lately? Or, conversely, have you tried importing an MS-Word file into WordStar?

[Cats_and_tats]

na

[Cheepnis]

I take lots of satisfaction in using something to its death. I'm mostly concerned about functionality. To that end I try to only get things that are durable and repairable. However, I also take care to keep their physical appearance good as well to satisfy my immense vanity. Pretty standard ERE mindset basically.

My computer is coming up on 10 and even though it still does everything I need it to, I can't deny I'm looking forward to the day it does so I can get a current system.

[oldbeyond]

I've bought some nice, durable things that amortize to very little considering their lifespan - the BIFL option. They still feel luxurious to me, and they make me not mind the simpler stuff. Even if the cheapest Walmart alternatives prove a bit cheaper, the cost would be worth bearing for the superior everyday experience. Generally, I have had the most regrets with mid range stuff, as it can be relatively expensive and not age well. So I tend to either get something nice, or give up on the product category in case and get something disposable. I do place some importance on appearance, in the sense that I like to surround myself with beauty. But I think it can be done efficiently with rather few resources, and I think it shows when something is a natural part of a life well lived and not pretty still life from a magazine.

When stuff breaks/gets to outdated, and if it can't be repaired or upgraded*, I don't feel bad about disposing of it as best I can and replacing it (used if possible). Nothing will last forever, after all.

*As for computers I've had great success with adding some RAM and replacing the hard drive with an SSD (as well as turning off some bells and whistles not missed since). The 9 year old Macbook I'm typing this on doesn't feel slower than my 6 month old workstation at work for daily use. Aesthetically, some paint, new knobs etc can improve a lot of furniture.

[jacob]

It appears that the issues in this thread can be understood in terms of two independent variables:

• The degree of appearance which seems largely aesthetical and includes concerns like "does it fit with the rest of my interior"/"does it match the style of the decade/my parents/colleagues". Alternatively, is it compatible with my neophile values or my reverence of history?
• The degree of functionality ranging from "fully functional" over "needs workarounds" to "basically broken".

This easily creates four different arch-type temperaments: (N/O)x(F/B)

• Prefers new and functional (NF)
• Prefers new and accepts broken (NB)
• Prefers old and functional (OF)
• Prefers old and accepts broken (OB)

The feeling of unease or downside comes from not living in accordance with one's temperament. I'm an Of, so I prefer old stuff and I don't mind having to tweak things a bit to get them working, that is, I subscribe to the "good enough" philosophy. This difference recently became clear to me when I had to explain various things around ERE HQ to a house sitter (presumably NF) and a several things had the form of "So when you use X, you have to be aware that it might fail like Y, and if so, all you have to do is Z". Conversely, I feel somewhat unease in NF homes (the Ikea catalog vibe) whereas NB homes just feel trashy.

[Cats_and_tats]

na

[7Wannabe5]

What I meant by sense of aesthetic was more like "If I pick a bouquet of field flowers and arrange them in a Mason jar or other simple vessel, will their appearance, and my mood when I catch sight of them once more, be ruined by the appearance of the peeling laminate off of chip-board monstrosity which currently functions as my table?"

I mean, humans in very impoverished cultural settings will still go to some effort to improve the aesthetics associated with their homes, clothing/body, tools and food. If you can decide whether or not the line of a woman's leg, or the scent of jasmine, or a cool starry evening, or a braided loaf of bread is pleasing to you, then you can create a lovely home in accordance with your personal aesthetic. And, if you are high-order frugal, you can accomplish this task making very little use of money. In fact, spending too much money will likely be counter-productive.

Wharton level meets Wheaton level.

[Scott 2]

I definitely fall under the old and broken category. When my oven stopped heating, my response was to make stove food. I discovered the broiler still worked, so I was thrilled to also have the option of tostadas. My wife eventually took matters into her own hands and got the starter replaced. This thread motivated her to join the boards and post, so clearly it's a shared struggle impacting my household.

I suppose the wisdom of my chosen archetype is what I question. I'm too lazy for old and functional, unless maybe I pay someone else for the repairs. Same with being a capitalist shark. It's smart, but also low paying work. By the time I've done my day job, I'm tired of chasing money. The immediate path of least effort is to be complacent about old and broken stuff. I almost always choose it.

It doesn't help that my aesthetic is bare walls, a computer and a mattress. I bought a picture once, wasn't worth it. Fortunately my wife makes some effort, our house is much closer to the high living neighbors than it would otherwise be.

Jean's not wrong, but that's where a bidet comes in. Those of us lounging in luxury get to catch up on the forum AND emerge sparkling. Sure it's an indulgence, but what a way to live. One of the rare times I bothered to get something new, and it is definitely worth it.

[Cats_and_tats]

na

[Jean]

My end plan is to have a small pistol shower on my bathroom. I'm only waiting for my tenant to burn the woodpile in the way of my waterpipe.

[Clarice]

I pretty much don't own nice things.

This strategy works only in a rich and stable society where promissory notes (or electronic signals on your computer screen) are honored. This is an American society today. Personally, I would be cautious, look for balance, and own some nice things. Your way is somewhat fragile. While you feel wealthy looking at your bank account on a computer screen, IRL you are somewhat vulnerable in case SHTF. Think of today's Venezuela - money is worthless, store shelves are empty, and people are left with the things they possess, for personal use or for trade. These periods happen rarely and last for a few years, but I would have this possibility in the corner of my eye. Some food, some things to trade, a vehicle in good repair... DH remembers to this day how he hauled a 50 kg (110 lbs) bag of potatoes from where he got it to his apartment in Saint Petersburg in the 90s - not a pretty story. In my life, it has happened once, so I can not completely dismiss this thought. Money is not wealth. Money is a promise of wealth. Balance money with other kinds of wealth.

[take2]

Ha, I did the same as Scott2 when my oven stopped working last year. I was in work-provided housing and didn’t have the mental energy to chase the housing agent to fix it so I just cooked on the stove for the last 6 months that I was there for. I suppose I’m OB as well as the thought of continuously chasing up the agent and documenting what was wrong on their archaic website was more painful then just coming up with new ways to cook on the stove. I made a lot of good stews during that time.

However I do agree with bigato on the cost utility curve. I’ve never done it with automobiles but I exclusively bought and sold all furniture off craigslist (or similar) when I bounced around apartments in my younger years. I always made a profit on items and generally my “decor” was quite nice. In a very early to mid 20’s eclectic bachelor sort of way - think lots of espresso furniture and cool wine racks.

Furniture is a great one as even really high quality stuff (unless it’s an “antique” or “handmade”) drops down to super cheap prices, usually bc people need to get rid of things ASAP and I was happy to take it off their hands. I did it once with a motorcycle too but that was more of a pet project and a “value add” - wasn’t working and I fixed it up. Sold it after I realised I preferred fixing it to riding it.

Never understood how people can value something so high when they buy it new and then discard it for nothing or for a fraction of the original price when they either find they need to get rid of it or upgrade. You see this all the time with phones - people will get the latest iPhone and just let the older perfectly working models sit in a drawer collecting dust

[take2]

I should add that the primary motivation for buying/selling the furniture was to limit the moving costs/hassle when I had to relocate.

To bigato’s point it was more economical to acquire cheap, well preserved high quality stuff and then resell and repeat then it was to buy new and keep it forever. This is probably more situational based (if you’re just staying put you don’t have to deal with it) but the concept could be extended regardless.

Also helps when you’re not attached to your stuff. I generally didn’t care what my furniture looked like, but will add that it was typically nice and always functional. My definition of nice may be different from others and now that I’ve moved in with the SO I’m starting to realise that a bit more.

[Peanut]

I bought a picture once, wasn't worth it.

Hilarious. But yet you like museums? Maybe you'd have different results with a different picture. I'm curious how this one failed, though.

@jacob: Nice paradigm, but it doesn't account for the appearance of one's stuff. I'm OFLN, old and functional and looks new. That's the ideal, anyway. Hard to achieve when you live with other people, though.

Of course the two categories of the most valuable old stuff out there, or of stuff period, are "vintage" (25 yrs+) and "antique" (100 yrs +). Like new is the holy grail of old stuff. Just enough but not too much patina, etc.

I was looking to buy a silly children's game, Trouble. There are two new "retro" versions, $13 and $20, but the former is said to be made flimsily. Then there is the actual original on ebay, $30 and higher for one in "very good" condition. This thing is just a piece of plastic! I had no idea what I should do, for eco, financial, or any other reason, so I didn't buy anything. Maybe I'll screw up the nerve to visit my mother's messy house sometime, get lucky and stumble upon it in there.

@cats_and_tats: (awesome handle) it's too bad about the sofas. I think you may be able to find some with warranties? (Of course for the appliances and extended too). Anyway I can somewhat relate as I have purchased two sofas. The first was a big purchase and we've had it 15 yrs, reupholstered once as we used to have multiple dogs. Fun fact it is Danish and apparently indestructible. It's not stylistically what I would choose now after figuring out my aesthetic is not modernist but it's still a great sofa. The reupholstery was a compromise as I wanted a new sofa and DH didn't. I'm very glad now we kept it because of the second sofa I purchased 3 years ago. It was not cheap but much cheaper than the first. Also smaller, and looked great--tufting everywhere. After a year of light use the bench was not right. So I never want to sit on it or have guests sit on it but it's still there.

[Cats_and_tats]

na

[prognastat]

I think many here prefer to have a wealth of skills in the event of collapse rather than a wealth of stuff. If you have skills that will be useful in the event of collapse both to sustain yourself and to sell to others along with the tools to perform this skill this should significantly up your odds.

I suspect for most people it's out of sight out of mind and they never again think of those things until they go into the drawer to look for something or clean up and find it again.