Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

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Clarice
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Clarice »

@prognastat:
Skills are definitely superior to stuff (cannot be taken from you), but why limit yourself when you can have them all? :D

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Sclass
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Sclass »

Here is an alternative take on the OP.

I happen to like old stuff. I love fixing old stuff and saving money by using other folks trash. But let me share an interesting story where I believe my proclivity for resurrecting old things almost cost me a fortune.

Back in 2006 I picked up a young report on my engineering team. He was recently laid off and desperate to get employment. The pickings were good at the time. So I mentored this guy in investment and he got me into young tech. One day after hours he saw me reflowing a pcb from an original iPod. He said cool...but why waste my time and do that? Why not get a new one they’re cool.

I said what do you think about AAPL? He said dunno but it probably had legs. So I asked what’s so cool about it? He said buy the new iPad and find out. Humorously he teased “old guys” like me are snapping them up. He also said while I was at it why don’t we get a Kindle 2nd gen. It was $400. My God I thought...why would somebody buy that?

Try it you may like the new tech he said. Soon I was enjoying my iPad 1 and kindle 2. I was really enjoying it. It was a big jump from using a tired Dell Inspiron laptop and a paper back book. Simply transforming. I read more I researched more. We started tearing apart the financials of AAPL and AMZN. Then I taught him really the only thing I had to offer. How to shut up and make a bet. We dove in big.

I told him his job was secure and he put all on. Ballsy kid. I put on less than 5% of my NW on each which is a rule I live by.

The rest is history. Be careful about avoiding the newest tech. That kid fast tracked my ER. He went on to cofound a very successful unicorn.
Last edited by Sclass on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Clarice
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Clarice »

@jacob:
I am surprised that New and Functional reminds you of Ikea. If someone played an association game with me and said, "Ikea" the first word in my mind would be, "Crap".

This conversation is veering toward furniture and appliances. :o I wonder if OP has meant furniture and appliances or "stuff" in a more general sense...

Anyway, when it comes to furniture and appliance, Craiglist is a viable strategy as one is rarely in a hurry.
Another obvious strategy if you not planning on moving is to buy quality. We have a 14 yo Ethan Allen sofa that is in a very good condition despite taking some heavy abuse in the past from DD who peed on it, spilled on it, and jumped on it. We cleaned it. It still looks and feels great.
Another thing is not to replace something just because it's old. We still have a washer/dryer set in good repair that is older than 20 years. DH fixed a washer a few years ago when it broke with a $6 part that he got on Amazon. Many of my friends went through a few new washer/dryer sets that broke beyond repair at the same time.
We don't have anything broken. When something breaks DH reacts with an urgency that most people reserve to a fire alarm going off. :lol:
Not being in the know, I would definitely not spend good money on "decor" - pictures and such - rarely worth it. I would decorate a la 7wb5 style. IRL, I don't have enough space on my walls to put there all the pictures that my mother has painted. :shock:

jacob
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by jacob »

Not Ikea in particular, but the furniture catalogue look.

prognastat
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by prognastat »

XD I actually do have the first two and working on the third. The first two pretty much go hand in hand, it's much harder to get a bank account in another country if you aren't a citizen.

I would suspect Jacob has all 3.

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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by plantingourpennies »

Scott 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:46 pm
I suppose the wisdom of my chosen archetype is what I question. I'm too lazy for old and functional, unless maybe I pay someone else for the repairs.
You're right to question it. Human beings are tool makers and picture painters. When our tools don't work, it interjects a bit of mental fuzz into our heads-similar to living with clutter. When our surroundings don't have a bit of artistry to them we feel that we are missing something.
Scott 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:46 pm
I definitely fall under the old and broken category.
Learn how to spend money on things that are meant to be repaired. Look for items that are...

-Depreciating slowly (or not at all)
-Made of technology that is stable
-Have a good community around them (internet forums, youtube videos)
-Are pleasingly designed. Which aesthetic it follows doesn't matter, the important thing is that somebody decided that this "thing" was important enough to inject a bit of art into.

Repair is like excercise- awkward at first, but addictive after a while.

tl;dr
As jacob said, own some classics-http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-2 ... ssics.html

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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by jacob »

prognastat wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:48 pm
I would suspect Jacob has all 3.
No, I have 2.5.

vexed87
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by vexed87 »

Lots of things I own have been acquired new, but are not new any longer, I won't replace them unless they fail, even though they are getting old, they fit in with what I already own.

I did pass up on a free and working 60s era Kenwood stand mixer recently because it was hideously old fashioned and the plastic was yellowing. It would have looked horridly out of place amongst the stuff bought new (but now old-ish) stainless steel appliances on our kitchen counter. I like to acquire used but functional items, but as far as aesthetics go, I have my limits.

prognastat
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by prognastat »

@Jacob

I'm assuming you have half in skills in your opinion? Because I don't know how you would have half in the other two.

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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by jacob »

Permanent US resident, not citizen. Maybe it's more like 0.8 :-P

prognastat
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by prognastat »

Damn, I forgot about that. Well that puts me down to 1.5 XD Though it still means if things truly go to hell I still have the option to move back to the Netherlands if things were to get real bad for some reason, but not affect the Netherlands to the same degree. However, giving how financially linked most first world countries are these days I doubt there could be some kind of total collapse in the US and the Netherlands be relatively fine.

I was considering getting full dual citizenship, but given the current political climate I'm holding off on that.

Scott 2
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Scott 2 »

@Peanut - I learned within 2 days of a picture going up, I never see it again. Not intentionally, but I tend to hyper focus on my task at hand. And there is always a task.

The museums are something my wife enjoys. Making her happy is my primary motivation. I would never go on my own accord. There is a lot about the experience I only tolerate (travel, crowds, noise, etc.). I also tend to take the amazing parts for granted.

My wife has decorated the walls.


@Clarice - I agree, if the US economy collapses to the point where electronic assets are gone, I'm in trouble. Even if I had nice things, I would lose them to my neighbor with the "God bless our snipers" bumper sticker. Almost all my skills are computer based. I can't say I fear of such an event. I understand living through it would forever change someone's perspective.

I wasn't focused on only furniture or appliances with my original post. They are easy examples. I can use my own body as another. I've been nursing minor foot pain for about a year. I self-diagnosed, got some ideas off the internet, and have been making due. My doctor offered a physical therapy referral, but that could cost $1000. Based on prior experience, I convinced myself internet exercises are good enough. It doesn't help that I only do them when my foot pain flares.

As a novice consumer, I find judging the value of premium products daunting. It can take a couple attempts to find a true high end offering. That gets very expensive and makes me resistant to trying again.

We have two king size luxury beds in our bedroom. The first one was a dud with no financial recourse. After a year, I had to admit the problem wasn't solved, then bought a superior second bed. I couldn't bring myself to trash the first $1500 mattress, so they sit there on the floor, side by side. Our bedroom is almost all mattress.

My wife's sense of aesthetic is the only reason a mattress isn't used to furnish our living room.


@Anesde - Limited time to invest in a transaction leads people to buying high, selling low. At a certain point, I have to spend my energy on something other than money. Especially as income has gone up, dealing with selling used has been a very logical thing to cut. I generally low ball myself for the easy sale, but can still get frustrated with the games and give up. The few times I've had something higher quality, it has been easier to sell.

The problem I've run into as a buyer, is the time needed to execute the transaction. It can take a couple hours to coordinate a deal. If a seller has misrepresented their item, the time is lost. Often, I can get the low quality solution delivered to my door for the same money. When I value the incremental consumption of my free time, it becomes tough to come out ahead. I use $100/hr, since more money doesn't relieve my life constraints.

I've concluded the capitalist sharks, as Bigato called them, enjoy the negotiation. I have a friend like this, she restores old stuff and spends her weekends selling it at shows.


@plantingourpennies - Measured by tool making and picture painting, I am a very poor human. Some earlier posters alluded to work time constraints making repair impractical. That is true for me. Additionally, the few times I have done DIY, I derived no satisfaction from the result. My greatest skill is focusing on detail, making it very easy to find fault.

When my best efforts lead to an exacting understanding of my failings, there is no reward. Even when I hire an expert, I've learned from experience to accept their work at face value. Scrutiny leads to disappointment, making "old and functional" feel "old and broken".


Overall
I'd like to claim a conclusion from all the discussion, but I don't have it. I can admit I'll never be a Renaissance man.

My impulse is to run from the mess. I could abandon my fancy townhouse for a smaller home in a less affluent neighborhood. I would justify it as reducing the surface area of my problem set. I'm not sure it's a great fix. This pattern will repeat and nobody is paying a premium for my old and broken home.

Another option is to accept a less frugal lifestyle and throw money at the problems. I could set a budget and abdicate responsibility to my wife. She doesn't want to deal with the mess either though, and I can be annoying once money starts flowing out.

My third option is the default - continuing to live an old and broken life. It's so easy.

Clarice
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Clarice »

"God bless our snipers"? Huh... Never saw this one in California! :lol: I agree with you 100% with your medical approach. Physical therapy is a big scam. You get a DPT (doctor of physical therapy), you put on scrubs, and you conduct PE lessons for $100/hr in an outpatient clinic or help people make it to the toilet in the hospital while charging Medicare part A $200 for an "evaluation". You saw through it and used internet exercises. That's a smart off the market solution. Nothing turns off people's brain as sitting at the examination room with no pants and listening to the doctor. As Jerry Sienfeld said, "Pants always beat no pants." You preserved your wits and saved money. Well done!

7Wannabe5
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Cats_and_tats:

It's interesting to me that you came out to participate on this thread, because I was thinking about a classic example from old school sexual dichotomy marriage therapy when I wrote my response.

The example involves a couple shopping for new flooring for their kitchen. They are both in agreement that new flooring is a practical necessity, but the husband is driven towards making decision primarily based on metric of low price, whereas the wife has some notion of her preferred aesthetic. Also relevant to this example is the fact that it takes place in situation where the wife is at-home primary inhabitant/utilizer of kitchen. The decision comes down to something like $1/square ft. for vomit-orange congoleum squares vs. $1.25/square ft. for basic blue congoleum squares. The advice offered by this form of therapy towards long-term harmony, is that if the difference in price will truly make a difference in the financial well-being of the household, the husband should hold firm on price, but if that is not the case, then the wife's preferences should be honored. The interplay of "respect" and "honoring preference" is at the core of sexual dichotomy relationship theory.

I think about this example fairly often in reference to the philopsophy/practice on this forum, because IMO, unless securely moored to some greater purpose, "freedom" is no more noble a goal than "beauty." IOW, superficial over-simplification would be that it is not particularly noble to save money on flooring in order to earn the freedom to spend your time playing video games.

Since all individuals (at least in theory) have "feminine" and "masculine" aspects to their personality, this sort of argument between 1950s conventional husband and wife can also be internalized in more or less functional or dysfunctional manner. For instance, at the very end of the modern manual for young ambitious men entitled "Efficiency" which I am theoretically following, the authors caution that once you have achieved the pinnacle of success to be gained through such a program and are retired upon great wealth, there is a danger to sink into bad habits such as substance abuse. In accordance with sexual dichotomy theory the reason why this may happen is that ignoring or repressing the "feminine" aspects of one's nature will leave that aspect of personality so weak and undeveloped, the vacuum will naturally tend towards being filled with the easiest fixes for unpleasant emotions. The other obvious risk or result is that the individual will simply stay stuck in hyper-efficient masculine functioning and never actually choose to retire for very long.

Anyways, if you care to take a twirl at the feminine half of maximizing overall function in accordance with this theory*, you should sit in your living environment, open yourself fully in your sensuality, thereby getting into strong touch with your preferences, and then you should communicate your preferences very clearly to Scott 2. However, since people who are locked in masculine energy are also often blocked to direct instruction, no matter how politely or softly proffered, you have to be very careful about your verbiage when expressing your preferences. For instance, "I think we should buy a new sofa." will not work as well as "I feel sad and mildly depressed when I look at our sofa."

*I would note for the record that I naturally pretty much suck at strongly stating my preferences, but to the extent I have self-aware made the attempt, I have found great success.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
Last edited by Cats_and_tats on Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@Cats-and-tats:

Gotcha :D

I was mostly just being silly (obviously, I knew Scott 2 would be reading along as I spoke to you female to female.) Partly, I was projecting my own current weariness with residing in my BFs middle-aged post-divorce man environment. Actually, this is even worse than typical graduate school age bachelor pad, because in addition to the "nothing" there are boxes full of decades of accumulated clutter. Also, I am typing this while pet-sitting for my multi-millionaire super-fit friend in his late 70s, whose home is indescribably the very opposite of anything in Dwell magazine. He bought it furnished from some dead woman with not-very-good-taste in the early 1980s, and has not changed a thing (or wiped down the wallpaper)since then, except to pile some of his stuff on top. So, I worry this is where some of the young men on this forum will wind up.

Cats_and_tats
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Cats_and_tats »

na
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Peanut
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Peanut »

@cats_and_tats: On the other hand, one could also say that your friend (and her husband) knows a definitive way to make herself happy, and that is also a valuable thing insofar as it is realizable. Personally I do understand the interest in that level of aesthetic detail, but I would take a lot longer to make the desired alterations. It tends to cost less then too. I think what’s different about the way people live today is that there is a compulsion for everything to be “done” right away. In the past couples spent years and even decades making their homes into their ideal.

I don’t know if it’s patience, delayed gratification, or something else less self-flattering but my history has been to take my sweet time about doing and deciding things big or small. I probably carry this too far at times though. We or really I took a year to actually buy that first couch but we found it fairly early on. I try consciously to speed up certain decision-making now.

Perfection is impossible however. Making mistakes in what we buy is hard to take, and getting ripped off even harder, I think. But it’s just going to happen at times unless we opt out completely, which is fine if in alignment with our priorities. @Scott 2: If you’re a novice in some area it helps to find an expert, or just other opinions. I have certain acquaintances or friends I know to turn to when I’m out of my depth. Heck this forum has been awesome for my car troubles.

Final thought is that there is no reason to keep the extra mattress in your room. Why not Craigslist it and give it to someone who will enjoy a crappy mattress that is free? Think of it as an off the books charitable donation. I got the sense on another thread that a lot of people prefer to dump stuff at the Salvation Army as opposed to using craigslist and I acknowledge it takes a little time and there are some flakes but IME it tends to turns out great. I had some baby stuff I gave away and in the process I met a foster mom taking in two kids, a social worker helping a mom from Puerto Rico, and a man hosting visitors with a baby and those brief contacts with other people felt like reciprocal goodwill and were mildly illuminating as well. Nyt once reported on a study about how random, positive encounters with strangers boosted happiness. These were like those, only better.

Scott 2
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by Scott 2 »

I completely agree on the value of expert input. Picking a qualified person can be tough. I am getting better at recognizing posers with age.

Having two king size beds looks absurd and was a stupid allocation of resources. It's kind of like driving a new car off the lot though. A used mattress is worth so little, that once costs were sunk, it has been acceptable as a secondary piece of furniture. The good one can be used exclusively for sleeping, which should extend its lifespan.

prognastat
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Re: Frugal Downside - All my stuff is old

Post by prognastat »

And I assume there isn't a guest bedroom the other one could go in where it would be used very infrequently?

Maybe there are friends/family members that could use it?

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