100% Working Remote / Telecommute

[Lemur]

How many of you have set yourselves up to work 100% from home? What industry do you work in? Is the work you're doing now for accumulation purposes or are you already FI and just working from home to pad up more net worth?

I'm thinking of pursuing a CPA in an effort to one day have an option to work from home (I'm certain accounting can be done from home but I could be be wrong...). I'm also continually adding on to programming skills (R / Python).

My son will be going to elementary school in about 2 years or so; I'm visualizing a time where I can work from home in peace & quiet along side my spouse who already works from home (she owns a business).

[Scott 2]

I've been 80% remote for the past 8 years. My entire department is. I've been FI for awhile and just took steps to gamble my position against a move to 95% remote. I'm in IT - QA, project management, business analysis, release management, etc. I'll do anything but code.

From what I've observed, individuals who do best remote are talented self starters, trading career advancement for quality of life. I don't think there's any way around the lack of a physical presence handicapping you. I watched a handful of new hires crash and burn because of this. From an organization perspective, I think retention benefits offset the penalty. A stable team can be a lot more productive. IT rewards job hopping, so finding a way to keep people around is valuable.

In my case, I'd worked with the management team at my company previously. First for several years as a consultant, then for a year as a side job (100% remote and after hours). I think there's a certain amount of face time needed to establish a functional relationship. I would be wary of 100% remote from day 1.

Managing this need for face time, we have significant, expensive team building events multiple times a year. The company is built around remote IT. Even with those advantages and pre-existing relationships, I'm not sure I'll survive the leap to 95% remote. I am great with it, but if my peers do not respond well, it won't work.

My peers with kids have found it necessary to hire a babysitter for working hours. Combining child care with work does not go well.

[JuliusFC]

I work from home 100% as a technical writer. I am in the latter part of accumulation.

I started out 100% in the office. I made myself a valuable member of the team, proved myself to be trustworthy, and gradually started working from home more and more. I've done this at a number of similar jobs, including ones with "strict" no-working-from-home policies. If you are good at what you do and most of your coworkers are just average or below average (you know, the usual distribution...) you can often demand more than you might think. Many managers will value your contribution and want to keep you around.

[EdithKeeler]

I worked remote from home for about 4 years full time. I now work from home up to three days a week, just because I like going into the office. I personally hated being full time at home, but a lot of people really thrive on it. I need to have a chat over the coffee maker every so often.

I work as an insurance adjuster. More and more adjusters are working from home; insurance adjusting is a career that hardly anyone is entering right now and experienced people are retiring in droves. There's a real need for people (it's in like EVERY insurance publication I read!). While more and more of the work is being automated, and companies like Lemonade are trying to take people sort of out of the equation as much as possible, most other companies, and especially commercial carriers are kind of starving for people.

The down side is, without experience you may have a hard time finding a full-time work at home position. But it may be possible.

If you work from home as an adjuster, you'll spend a lot of time on the phone and there may be occasional travel--depending on what you do and who you work for. It sounds like a boring job, but it's actually pretty interesting. Some of it dull (I personally hate administrative stuff like the data entry I have to do--blech--but I love that I learn about new industries and things every day, get to speak to a really wide variety of people, get to do interesting analysis of situations to determine liability, direct litigation, write comprehensive reports, etc. ). You do have to deal with some stressful situations from time to time--getting yelled at, deadlines beyond your control, stuff like that.

Pays pretty well (probably $50K or so when you start), and up from there. Benefits at insurance companies tend to be pretty good--I still have a pension, for example.

Typically you would need a degree of some sort, good communication skills both verbal and written, and a good work ethic--it can be a very busy job.

(All of this is for the United States--no clue in other countries!!).

Most of the same above goes for insurance Underwriter, except it's a more popular position, generally, so there may not be as much need.

I am working right now because I'm almost FI, probably could be FI, but I have an elderly mother I help out, things like that, so I'm not ready to quit just yet. My time frame is leave within 2-5 years, depending on circumstances.

[BRUTE]

lots of good advice here. brute is in software and wanting to go 100% remote to enable him to travel. right now it's more of a 1-2 days a week thing, which he already enjoys.

it's definitely still pretty rare, and brute sees only experienced workers with great reputations being "allowed" to have this benefit. the other category are cheap companies that hope to severely underpay for the privilege of remote work. as in 30-50% less.

it also seems that there's a big mental step between "mostly remote" and "fully remote", like EdithKeeler has mentioned. some humans have described it to brute as having the "ceiling come down on them" after a while. it seems that not having ANY casual social contact is pretty tricky on the human psyche. so if there is a 100% remote agreement, brute would recommend proactively managing at least weekly social interactions of some other form, e.g. clubs, dinners, or meetups.

[OTCW]

I have a ful time job that is 0% remote, a part time job that is also 0% remote, and a side business that is maybe 25% remote, but this is only for the administrative portion. The actual billable work is all remote. Civil Engineering isn't very conducive to remote work I guess.

[iopsi]

You can definitely do it as an accountant, I don't know if you need a CPA, but a CPA never hurts. Experience in small business accounting will be much more important, as small/medium size businesses are the ones who can't afford to hire a full accounting staff and want to outsource it for $200-$500 per month, and their work will be part time in nature, i.e. you can do it all in a day or less per week. I've seen plenty of accountants operate on that model.

Can confirm since i literally do this. 100% from home and work 1/2 days a week.

------

As others have said tho, it's not for everyone if one likes to be around people etc.

[theanimal]

I am 100% remote working in insurance. I have to proactively be more social and communal with friends than I otherwise likely would in a normal job. In my experience, not seeing people or having real conversations in real life has very negative effects.

[Scott 2]

Keep in mind you may not actually like it. You're going to deal with a lot of cheap whiny jerks, and you'll probably get stiffed a few times too. There are good clients too, but less of them. It's also stressful, scheduling is REALLY IMPORTANT. Never make a promise that you can't deliver on, better to under promise.

I had a similar experience working at a consulting company that serviced small businesses. They are difficult customers. I keep in touch with the director of IT over there, and even during boom times, it remains an issue. My current employer provides a service to insurers, and it is a world of difference. Once terms are agreed upon, they just pay, and money never really comes up again.

the other category are cheap companies that hope to severely underpay for the privilege of remote work. as in 30-50% less.

Even in a company that pays fairly, the impact on career growth can greatly reduce your earning potential. Roughly, I'd say my 8 years remote, sticking with a single employer, have come at the cost of reaching a director level position. Outside of status, compensation in such a role might be 50-100% higher than what I currently earn. The associated stress and lifestyle inflation would have prevented a proportional increase in net worth, but I am aware of the trade off.

My primary hesitation in taking a remote job that pays well below market, would be the peer group it's likely to produce. Even if the money is enough, working with people who aren't very good at their job is torture. Wheaton levels and all that.

[Loner]

I'm self-employed in two different industries (writing; economics) for a handful of clients. I work 85 % of the time at home (the 15 % on-site is because i'm working with confidential data that can only be accessed in a computer lab). I worked 100 % from home for about two years. There's many clients that I've never met, or met only after years/months of working with them (they got my name through a reference).

Personally, I'm very happy working 100 % telecommute. I really do not enjoy small talk, it breaks my flow. When I work, I like to be absorbed into it for hours without anyone whispering a word around or taking a break. That's my ideal work environment. But again, judging from comments I get from people around me, that's not for everyone.

The work I do is my accumulation-phase work, but it I also likely do similar work post-FI.

It depends very much on your temperament, but one the whole, if you're the not-too-gregarious introvert type, I'd sure say go for it. I'd hate going back.

One thing. You mention looking forward to working in "peace & quiet along side [your] spouse". That's great and it sure works... but only if your spouse (or you) isn't too chatty

[SustainableHappiness]

Good advice wrt to career-ing and social/emotional aspects of remote work so far.

I was working 75% remote up until recently with 1 role 100% remote. 2 other ideas to consider.

1) Digital Marketing - Allows for typical employee-employer roles, freelancing gigs or starting your own business if you are good at or at all interested in self-branding. I was working for a marketing agency in Thailand consulting for a client in NYC working out of Canada (not client-facing) so our hours were all flipped around allowing for both fully remote and flexible hours. I got my Google/Linkedin/Facebook analytics skills doing 1 free gig w/ coaching and then started charging after that and learning as I went. Note, I no longer do this as I didn't find much enjoyment in the analytics apart from designing ads to play the game the best. Like most advertising roles fulfillment also is heavily contingent on your moral compass in relation to what you are selling.

2) Online Teaching - Online contracts are becoming more and more frequent for both established and start-up institutions. I'm currently designing multiple online courses. It's hot right now. Like most smart job/gig-finding don't wait for positions to be posted. Do research, find out who the Chair or Hiring Director or Dean is and start reaching out via digital channels (Linkedin/Email) with thoughtful messages on what you have to offer and what courses you could teach. Also (purely my opinion), skip HR, they are process executors, rarely decision makers.

Or teach English online. Typically hours are early in the morning or late at night (if you are in NA) as they are an Asian audience. Sometimes no teaching experience required, o.k. hourly rate $20-25 and if you can teach "Business English" all the better, you can start tutoring for more $$ once you get your feet wet.

[SustainableHappiness]

Oh yeah, and I always recommend having a room (with a shut door), or a coffee shop you can go to if needed. Doing work at the kitchen table, or in the living room has always sucked for me.

Oh and I'm currently about 50% remote.

[classical_Liberal]

if you can teach "Business English" all the better

I'm curious what defines business English.

Recently, I was watching a youtube channel, one of those digital nomad types. He had picked up a niche teaching English and customs to doctors who were planning on coming to the US to practice medicine. I found it interesting because I know there is a huge demand for these doctors, and my hospital nurse experience would put me in a very good position to provide such education. I enjoy teaching to a mature audience, but have never done it professionally. Where would one even start? Particularly with such a specific niche.

[jacob]

@c_L - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale Business proficiency corresponds to level 3.

[SustainableHappiness]

From people I've talked anecdotally and research I did a few years ago, "business english" typically means you have worked in or have a degree in Business. i.e. specific emphasis on point #2 in the wiki article.

"- can discuss particular interests and special fields of competence with reasonable ease"

The acquaintance I had who tutored in it, actually only had an bachelor's in business, however he became well known in his Korean English teaching world and ended up charging major $$ to Korean businessmen and children who wanted to learn "business english". He also played the game well by getting tailormade suits from Vietnam (I think that was the country) to walk the part. I keep putting it in quotes because I don't think it has a rigorously explored curriculum, it's more an adept English conversation partner with matching specialties.

On a further note, these Online ESL companies are booming at the moment and I have met at least one person who within about 6 months was offered a "good" (her word) salary and benefits for a still remote, but operational and training role with more control over hours flexibility and she felt like she was in her dream job.

Note; almost all of the people I've met are pursuing these avenues as a second career because there was a glut of teachers for the past five years in our region of Canada and they couldn't get union jobs.

[luxagraf]

I'm not sure what "business english" refers to in context, but my wife has been researching teaching english for quite a while now and things are changing fast in the online ESL field. The sort of wild west easy money that seems to characterize all emerging online markets is settling down fast.

As of a couple months ago China, probably the biggest employer in this market, changed things up considerably making it very difficult to get a job teaching English without some sort of a degree in teaching (going forward, not sure when these rules go in effect). It makes sense, especially given how shady some of these online ESL companies are, but it effectively limits the opportunities for those of us capable, but uncertified.

And from what we've been able to find, the money is not that good even with a masters in education (which my wife has). You're going to be hard pressed to make more than $15/hr, maybe $20 with one particular outlet I know of, but they require not just a masters in education, but a masters in Language Education.

If you find differently, by all means let me know.

[steelerfan]

My wife is 100% working from home. She used to work 2-3 days a week from home. Same company, different department. Insurance company business analyst heavy coding. She had an earlier stint 100% telecommute with the same company that did not work out. It really depends on your role.

I am an accountant also in insurance who works 100% in an office. The office is 10 minutes from home. I could work from home if I wanted to but do not want to. My boss is remote working from home. In essence since I don’t report to anyone in the office it is like being at home.

During work hours we have to be quiet as my wife works in a loft area. She is on the phone a lot. I may have to eventually work from home as we may go to that model. In that case I will be down in the basement, which is furnished with a fridge and bathroom. Although I am an INTJ I need to be at least around people.

[SustainableHappiness]

@luxagraf Sounds like your knowledge more up to date than mine (a few years old + anecdotal recently). Makes sense the field of play is changing rapidly.

[Scott 2]

I may have to eventually work from home as we may go to that model. In that case I will be down in the basement, which is furnished with a fridge and bathroom. Although I am an INTJ I need to be at least around people.

My desk is in the unfinished basement. I only use it if I really need to go heads down, otherwise I end up at the kitchen table or living room couch. Being 100% alone is fine for a day or three, but eventually it gets cold and lonely down there. My wife has been working remote or unemployed for several years, so if I'm in the main part of the house, we're essentially hanging out together while I play on the computer.

When she was working remote, her conference calls were my least favorite part. Hearing one side of a stressful, yet meaningless conversation is unpleasant. Having the separate work space was important then.

When she worked full time in the office, and I was working remote, there was some effort to make it work. I'd end up with DVDs or streaming playing all day (ice road truckers was great for this) and was very ready for attention by the time she got home. Meanwhile, she'd need to unwind from all the people at work, and I could easily overwhelm her. I addressed it by taking some yoga classes in the evening and going to a local gym on the weekends. If I wasn't such an introvert, it wouldn't have been enough.

[SavingWithBabies]

I've been 100% remote for the past 1.5 years. I'm in software development and work for an international company headquartered in the San Francisco Bay Area. I write code although lately I'm in more of a team lead position without as much code writing as I'd prefer. I'm still in the accumulation phase -- I'd guess we're roughly around 50% in terms of a very rough dollar goal. We have two young children at home and my wife is a homemaker. It does get hectic with two little kids but it mostly works out just fine.

My goal is to become self-employed and/or get to FI. At the current rate of progress on self-employment, I suspect we'll get to FI first but I am hoping to be wrong about that. A recession could slow down the accumulation side and the side project I'd like to be (self) employed by could take off. On the other hand, the recession might not come or might spare me and we could learn to live on less (lowering our required assets to be technically FI). So my action items are figure out how to sell my side project to more customers (while continuing to develop it) and figuring out how to live on less. I do want to keep going on my side project even if I get to FI.