Thoughts on Plastic Surgery?

[TopHatFox]

So I know that plastic surgery rates are going through the roof with the rise of social media and narcissism. It’s almost like an arms race that’s leaving more people behind than it puts on the pedestal.

People who are more attractive are more likely to get job offers, dates, better service, are thought to be smarter, etc. So...is plastic surgery worth it?

I assume people on this board are on the right side of the bell curve, so let’s say that issues of nutrition and exercise are taken care of. Same with stuff like well-fitting, flattering clothing and good hair grooming.

But...what about the stuff you need specialists for? Where do we draw the line? Teeth whitening, gum/teeth contouring, braces, functional jaw surgery, cosmetic jaw surgery, chin surgery, a nose job, lip surgery, ear surgery, dermabradion, a facelift, a neck lift, hair transplants?

As far as cost, the procedures are becoming cheaper and cheaper, and for folks like us who save a lot, a few grand for a lifetime benefit seems like a good roi.

I mean, is this the new normal, average to even above average people getting procedures done to compete? And if so, is there a benefit to opting in to stay competitive?

[Jean]

If you have bad genetics, your partner should know it before you impregnate her.
Maybe offering free plastic surgery to people who accept being sterilized would be a good way to save our futur on this planet.
More close related, I think it's not really beneficial long term, because it quickly moves the arm race on thing that are harder to change: Height, skin and eye color, etc. Not counting the dead face that many people end up having after a few surgery.
Even with unlimited money, I wouldn't do it, because a lot of people keep doing it past the point where it's beneficial to their look.

[Lemon]

Generally no. Risks > Benefit cost aside in my opinion. These procedures are not without risk of complication particularly when price becomes the biggest priority. Death, wound infections, scarring are all possible. That is the bigger concern for me and why from what you list even free none of them really appeal (maybe hair if I was to lose it very young - but that doesn't need a GA). They also are not going to solve the problem if it is primarily psychological.

What are you competing in to need plastic surgery?! Unless you have something massively disfiguring I would assume doing all the non surgical things you mention puts you pretty near the front of the pack anyway.

[Mister Imperceptible]

What are you competing in to need plastic surgery?!

Seems especially unnecessary considering robots won’t care what you look like.

[Dream of Freedom]

Plastic surgery was developed to help wounded solders who were disfigured in battle. It is hard for me to argue that one should remain in a condition like that. For normal people though there are better ways to be more attractive.

[2Birds1Stone]

I am starting to question whether or not you spend your time on the right forums.

[George the original one]

As far as cost, the procedures are becoming cheaper and cheaper, and for folks like us who save a lot, a few grand for a lifetime benefit seems like a good roi.

I'm sure that's what Elaine Garzarelli believed. You're likely too young to be familiar with her, so google her name and plastic surgery.

[7Wannabe5]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... tly-mixed/

I am pretty contrarian in this realm, because I have had a mini-face lift, but I choose not to replace two missing molars. My "ex" paid for the lift, because I was going through a phase where my rule-of-thumb was that any time a man said anything insulting about my appearance, I should respond by suggesting a way he could spend his money to fix the problem. For instance, "I really don't like that red dress on you." would garner response along the lines of "Okay, what color dress are you going to buy me?"

My surgeon had a very strong aesthetic, and I was on the young side (late 40s), so the results were not scary looking or even very noticeable, and have held up quite well. Oddly, my only regret has been that I think that I sometimes look a little bit younger than I feel. Like I gave up a bit of the slack people will sometimes grant you when you are older.

[iopsi]

I think it is greatly overestimated how much looks matter for employment or for appearing smarter, the major variables for getting a good job are definitely others (and maybe you could marginally appear smarter to a few people that know you superficially... not that good of a perk!).
Surgery makes sense only if you want to attract young girls while you yourself are young, and even then if we talk strictly about sex it might be better to hire an hooker every once in a while.
At the older stages of life, we cannot compete with looks anymore and need money and status to attract women. So facial looks are a depreciating asset.

Not seeing this good roi you are talking about. Overall i don't think it's worth it unless you have actual deformities or facial features that threaten your health.

[EdithKeeler]

I'll have a tummy tuck when I lose a certain amount of weight. I see nothing wrong with having plastic surgery if you want to. I've known several people who've had plastic surgery for different reasons. A high school buddy (guy, gay) had a big, honkin' ugly nose. Not his fault, but his nose was awful--a huge hump and sort of discolored, just because of the way the veins ran. His mom wouldn't let him do anything about it when he was a kid, which I understand, but as soon as he had enough money, he had it fixed. He looked so much better, and felt way better about himself. He was a professional dancer (ballet and Broadway), and I doubt his nose really had much to do with his dance career, but he felt much more confident about himself and that confidence allowed him to go after parts he would not have otherwise.

My mom is having her eyelids done. They droop so much they interfere with her vision a bit. I'm not so thrilled with it; she has so many other health problems, I wonder if it's worth the risk, but her choice.

A friend had weight loss surgery; she had a total body lift after.

Guy I knew in college was born with a harelip; it was corrected when he was a baby, but he still had a noticeable scar. (Much more noticeable than Joachim Phoenix's). He wore a porn-star mustache for years, but hated that, too, and eventually had further correction done to minimize it.

Good girlfriend ripped her earlobe off--had surgery to rebuild it.

I think some people (Michael Jackson, Joan Rivers...) go a bit too far with it, and I don't think that all plastic surgery looks so great, but people's choice. I think "to look better in selfies on Facebook" is a goofy reason to have it, but... whatever.

[BPA]

As someone who used to be quite physically attractive and isn't any longer, I can say this. I have noticed zero difference between getting dates and jobs when I was younger and now. And frankly, people take me far more seriously now than they ever did when I was conventionally pretty. I do get sexually harassed a hell of a lot less often now, so I consider that a plus.

To me, to get it for purely cosmetic reasons is the anti-thesis of ERE. Unless you learn to do it yourself.

[Frita]

Do what you need to do. I personally would not do cosmetic surgery as I perceive aging as a privilege. But I say that as a 50 year old and have zero psych ability regarding the future.

[TopHatFox]

I always wonder why you care so much about what other people think? This is YOUR life, not theirs, so fuck them if they don't like you, pardon my french.

NF who values community, and is currently in the plastic capital of the world. Why do you all care so little NTs huh? I only care what my inner circle thinks, and if a nose job or finishing off braces makes it easier to get new ppl in the slot after all the other low hanging fruit are optimized, then maybe that’s at least worth considering. Not so sure about a facelift or similar since that’s a decades from now type of question, and all the body operations can be solved with barbells and eating healthful food. My confidence is fine. Having lots of hobbies, being thin, and a nw higher than most ppl my age helps.

[Mister Imperceptible]

An NT is just sorry your standing in the inner circle depends so much on superficialities that you are considering plastic surgery in you early-mid twenties. If you’re considerating such things this early, it sounds like you have decades of insecurity in front of you. What’s going to happen when you’re 30? 40?

I pity the “low-hanging fruit” that fall in and out of your slot.

[TopHatFox]

haha by “low hanging fruit” I meant getting dress, diet, and exercise under control. The stuff that doesn’t require specialists. Perhaps priorities will be different when I eventually move to a small hippy town. At this point I’m just exploring different ideas just to pass the time.

This isn’t something I just made up btw, there is a strong correlation between select plastic surgery and access to high quality people. Just go to a reunion of an ivy league school 20-30 yrs in (I know because I served them booze as a current student lol)

[Fish]

From Investment in Aesthetics discussion (July 2016):

I'd only consider physically altering my appearance with surgery if there's a predominant functional component, such as with orthognathic surgery. Surgery is expensive, and altering the body using foreign objects can have adverse effects, such as infection, follow-up procedures, etc.

What happened in the last 2.5 years to change your mind on this?

[Bankai]

It's quite obvious that the issue is inside the head, not in front of it. You could really benefit from learning not to give a fuck.

You described yourself as an '8' in the dating thread, and generally consider yourself very handsome and hot (my impression from that and other threads). If so, why the surgery? It can maybe turn a '2' into a '3' by fixing obvious deformity, but for an '8' your expected outcome might actually be negative (very small marginal return vs. Still high risk of things going wrong - and these things go wrong even for people with unlimited money - see the long list of celebrities before and after).

Also, re your point of helping to get a job - I don't buy it. Facing male recruiter/interviewer, you probably have equal or greater chance of NOT getting a job if you're too pretty due to his unsecurities. The only actual research on this subject I've seen related to taller people being more successful. You can get taller (a bit) by lenghtening your legs by implanting metal bars inside etc. Super painful and takes couple of years, but very popular in some parts of the world.

[7Wannabe5]

Personal anecdotes aside, there actually is a good deal of research indicating that humans whose adult appearance most resembles a human baby (or Mickey Mouse, or even Mrs. Santa Claus) will be reflexively viewed as more trust-worthy, warm, approachable and employable, because "pretty " or "cute." However, when it comes to low-hanging fruit for a man in his early 20s who is very slender, I would suggest that the WSP program for serious, efficient achievement of something like "golden proportions" through strength training/weight lifting might offer a better ROI.

All humans, male and female, have to make general and in the moment judgments about whether attractive submissive appearance/behavior/signaling OR attractive dominant appearance/behavior/signaling would be in best interest. Having both of these options available is likely to prove most beneficial. For instance, because I am tall, not slender, 1st born, handsome (as opposed to pretty) nosed and not hesitant to interject myself into conversations or raise my hand in classrooms, I have had less lifelong difficulty with being taken seriously than many other females in my acquaintance. So, I also maintain a long mane of fake blonde hair, a couple cute dresses, and a handful of tricks for overt submissive signaling for the occasions when I wish to be taken as the less serious party Sometimes I amuse myself by signalling overtly dominant in relationship to affluent old men,and I find this behavior to be profitable, but it is not entirely natural for me, so I have to do something like tightly channel the anger I felt when J.Bozo violated contract with me.

[suomalainen]

Are you trying to just get laid or find a mate? Can't help you with the former, but with the latter, if you don't like / fit in to the Miami culture and the resultant women there, move (like you were asking about in another thread) to an area where your odds are higher. There is a lid for every pot. It's a numbers game. Talk to a thousand women in low-pressure (i.e., non-dating) situations to find your lid. I always thought the "get the girl" or "win the girl" programs were kinda pathetic. If she isn't also chasing you, she's not worth chasing.

Hint: in a speed dating research study, heterosexual men and women answered surveys after speed dating sessions. A key result? For men, "felt a connection with so-and-so" correlated highly ONLY with how physically attractive the man found the woman. For women, "felt a connection with so-and-so" correlated highly ONLY with how much the woman felt listened to.

Takeaway: the highest ROI you can have is to not "try to land someone". Be yourself. Have fun. Find the natural lid to your natural pot rejecting (and being rejected) hundreds of times along the way. And don't be a douchebag when you find her.

Re: op, I might consider minor corrective surgeries, but vanity is ultimately pointless. Everything degrades, so when most of you does, but one part of you doesn't, it just looks freaky, so I view vanity surgeries as a trade of long-term costs (physical and financial) for short-term gain.

edit: also, one thing I tell my kids is that if that one girl you're infatuated with doesn't reciprocate, don't pine for her or try to "get her", just move on. There's always another bus.

[7Wannabe5]

Another thought would be that the biggest ROI on any sort of effort towards aesthetics is likely to result at the level of most casual interactions in the social field, but this is not unimportant, because all the little interactions we have with other humans through the course of a given day will influence us.