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Kierkegaard (roughly translated) "The highest goal in life is the will to be yourself."

Mr. Rogers (roughly translated) "One should not feel obligated to do great things in order to be loved and accepted."

I might add Montaigne to this:

"My art and profession is to live."

and

"We are great fools: He has spent his life in idleness. We say, I have done nothing today. Really, have you not lived? This is not only the most fundamental but the most illustrious of your occupations."

Of course, he also said "The soul which has no fixed purpose in life is lost; to be everywhere, is to be nowhere." So... who knows.

chenda wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:36 pm

FWIW, the Zoroastrian notion that our purpose in life is to bring this potentially pefectable world closer to perfection gives a good purpose for life.... be a good person, engage in selfless service and chant. You'll improve the world and get then liberation from it.

I have no idea what this stuff means. What if you deny the existence of perfection? or good purpose?

The only thing I believe is that things change. This leads me to think that death is inevitable, and this finitude gives me direction (sometimes).

daylen wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:54 pm

I have no idea what this stuff means. What if you deny the existence of perfection? or good purpose?

It's based on the belief that human society could evolve to a point where there is minimal conflict and human suffering. Not quite utopia but in that vicinity. I expect many will be cynical but I would contend it's conceivable. This interview gives a good overview https://youtu.be/3s1t0hrl4pE ( the most recent comment has some interesting discussion, which might be a first for you tube : )

Edit: If you deny perfection or good purpose then it may not be the best spiritual path to follow.

Make God Great again!

For those who have a hard time connecting. He can be contacted through a few strong hits on a glass pipe.

https://thethirdwave.co/psychedelics/5-meo-dmt/

A slower path could be to read "The Mind Illuminated" and put it to practice. The greatest meditation book I've seen. You don't have to be overly religious at all and there's not much religion in the book anyway. Just patient.

Helping other's is also said to give satisfaction. How about mentoring? Take on a young ERE trainee or programmer novice?

Conflict and suffering are just the death of parts. The whole cannot grow or even be sustained without fragile parts. Perhaps a more sophisticated ecology could emerge if humans stopped living so long.

Wow, some great responses here - thanks everyone, there's a lot to process and I'd love to hear more.

To respond to a few things, I have meditated, I found it relaxing and a way to get tasks or "thought loops" out of my head and onto paper. But I didn't notice any spiritual progress. I actually bought and read about 70 pages of The Mind Illuminated. I may return to it in a bit.

@Chris - the system vs goal thing is interesting. I heard him on the Tim Ferriss podcast, and what seemed even more useful was the idea of a "web" or goals and projects, where even if you "fail" a particular goal your system overall is resilient. Ie, "it's impossible to really fail". I think this was something that was in my head when I wrote my original post. I have very linear monolithic goals/fields that are completely independent of each other, and I think I may look more into having field crossover with projects as the primary goal, so that I have the option to learn about projects, project management, etc, in addition to learning whatever the primary skill is. I actually enjoy pursuing the goals I have, but they do feel weak and more pointless the way they're formulated. I enjoy working on them, but they feel self-indulgent.

@7wb5 - I've also been thinking about this. Spanish in particular has lots of potential to help people, but it's very difficult to find a place to get started. I know enough Spanish to communicate, but it's difficult for me to help out - I think I'd feel like I was actually a drag in most places I tried to help with my knowledge level. For example, I'd probably confuse younger kids and be way less fluent than older kids. I need to figure out a way to bootstrap involvement.

@iopsi - I think you're right, I need to have both metrics for progress but also try to actually be creative and let my creative desires determine the direction I focus. I think I'll try to set myself up to be in a position to try my hand at songwriting in a month or two (I'm a real beginner at guitar).

@jp - Some heavy stuff, I think I need to read it a few more times!

The web-of-goals setup does feel more like a state of being in the sense that you're not working towards the sub-goals per se but more more serving as the gardener ensuring that the [teleological] vectors are pointing in the right directions. The state of being (as opposed to the state of doing) can often feel like you've accomplished nothing. It's also really had to answer the question "what have you been doing" both to yourself and others. It's only when you look back in time (or across in space) that the achievements become visible.

The web-of-goals can be mission driven, but I think a better explanation (or maybe I'm just projecting here) is that it is value- and temperamentally(*) driven. For example, my mission is to leave the world better than I found it and I'm doing it by solving complex problems that otherwise aren't being solved.

(*) Contrast that with "serving" or helping the helpless. That does not satisfy me temperamentally.

I think your angst at not being able to be Hendrix is indicative- you want to accomplish something.

With all do respect to the Eastern philosophies, I’m very much of the Western mindset. If you are happy in a state of zen, more power to you. But I do not think the purpose of life is to extirpate suffering. Suffering/pain is a signal. If you put your hand on a hot stove, the pain signal tells you to remove your hand from it. I struggle sometimes with fixating on the pain, so maybe the Eastern techniques are useful in orienting yourself away from pain fixation, but that would be useful only insofar you can return toward pursuit of the goal(s).

Dr. Fisker’s setup of the web-of-goals is excellent practical advice, but it is you who must determine the goal(s).

“Formula for our happiness: a Yes, a No, a straight line, a goal.”
Nietzsche

I need to work for my exams. It would be easy if I were working, even a few hours per day. But i just sit on my desk doing anything but reading my course material on the computer. How do you get yourself to work on something? Should one accept that one doesn't wan't to do this and stop trying?

edit: I'm not sure about the phrasing. I mean that I don't read my course material and do a lot of other unrelated thing instead.

I quit my job and then went camping in the desert for three months. I binge watched videos on Greek philosophy with the question in mind "what is my purpose?". I discovered Epicurus and read everything I could find on him. Despite an incomplete record of his writing, much of which has been lost to time and sabotage, I tried to internalize his methods to achieve happiness and tranquility. As a result of this philosophical exercise, I wrote the following manifesto while isolated deep in the desert wilderness:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8007&p=123556

Jean wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:24 pm

I am not immune from struggling with the Imp of the Perverse.

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wo ... e_Perverse

I try to frighten myself with the (thought experiment of the) unbearable weight of the Eternal Return.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sXGzFuoF8g&t=185s

Then again I probably have mental problems so maybe you should consult with one of the forum’s Buddhists.

daylen wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:54 pm

I have no idea what this stuff means. What if you deny the existence of perfection? or good purpose?

The only thing I believe is that things change. This leads me to think that death is inevitable, and this finitude gives me direction (sometimes).

+1 that most of modern philosophy is a useless circle jerk. what does "be yourself" even mean.

also +1 to 5-MEO-DMT, the true path to god.

If you were happy as a child, the logical conclusion would be to kill yourself as soon as you start to be unhappy.

what about potential for future happiness. brute optimizes for volume of happiness under the curve maybe.

I think that I commit to thing only to feel the relieve when I give up.

I’ve just drifted from one interesting project to another over the last seven years. Whatever catches my fancy. It lasts about six months to a year before I move on. I usually complete something and it becomes silly to continue or I fail miserably and give up. I always seem to move on.

I generally like fixing old stuff I acquire cheap. I end up owning a lot of machines for some reason. I guess I like that kind of thing. I am attracted to things that don’t work. But I get tired of things I fix so I move on. Like I don’t play with my sewing machines like I did last year. And I don’t feel a bit guilty about it. There’s always something new to distract me. Tonight I did some suspension work on one of my old Benzes. Tomorrow I plan to work on an ultrasonic humidifier I’ve been gathering parts for. Earlier in the week I baked bread in my hacked breadmachines. In the near future I want to get an e cig even though I have no interest in smoking or nicotine...I’m just curious about “Juling”. I’m holding off over the potential risk of addiction and hurting my health. It just looked interesting to learn vape tricks.

My SO says I have spent the last seven years distracting myself quarter to quarter with changing projects. I guess I’m a bit flakey and I move on and off things but who is judging me now?

Sometimes I feel guilty about it. But hey, I earned the right to be a flake. Not a sloth, but a hard working flake.

Enjoy your life. It is short.

Jean wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:58 pm

If you were happy as a child, the logical conclusion would be to kill yourself as soon as you start to be unhappy.

I think the logical conclusion is to do that which is necessary to make life a game again.

Maybe m741 should read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_and_Infinite_Games (again)?

chenda wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:36 pm

----
FWIW, the Zoroastrian notion that our purpose in life is to bring this potentially pefectable world closer to perfection gives a good purpose for life.

All I know is that Freddy Mercury was a Zoroastrian and he said fat bottomed girls make the world go round, a statement with which I tend to agree.

Augustus wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:07 pm

I think this is when you're going to figure out that imagination is what's really important, and difficult. My favorite example is rich movie stars. 99% of them just end up going to clubs, getting wasted, and banging a bunch of people. I always look at them and think, what a waste!

Yea, they should be foregoing all that fun and slave away, spending all their time making movies for our enjoyment! And donating their millions to charity!