Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Simple living, extreme early retirement, becoming and being wealthy, wisdom, praxis, personal growth,...
IlliniDave
Posts: 3845
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by IlliniDave »

Some anecdotal observations and thoughts from one of the more geriatric participants:

I talked about this in my journal a few years back, so I'll skip a lot here. For various reasons I got so focused on cultivating the stash that you could argue I became the servant of the stash. It took a large expenditure from the stash, which was a really difficult thing to do at the time, to reset the roles to how they should be (the stash is there to serve me, not the other way around). As a waypoint to FI it makes a fine interim metric in an array of metrics to track and optimize. I wouldn't recommend someone make it the primary pursuit of their life. Sort of a variation of "Work to live rather than live to work."

Aside from my time at work I try to make life as retirement-like as possible. By that I mean ideas I've had over the years for things I might like to do when no longer anchored in a job, I try to do them now. Life is life and it passes right through the retirement event horizon like it's not even there. I suspect the idea that a one might undergo a wonderful transformation just as soon as they can quit their job is externalization of blame. Aside from the hours spent collecting pay, I think it would behoove most aspiring FIREers to spend more time really thinking through what they want to do with themselves in the future than they do thinking about and fiddling around with their stashes. Be specific, write stuff down, and whenever possible start engaging in those things now. Some you'll realize aren't as great as you imagined and they can be replaced. Others will live up to expectations and they can be put in place as part of the foundation/structure of your life. And you might find that once you engage in some of them that your vision morphs and takes you in directions you might not have just thought up. As that picture evolves your stash requirements begin to clarify. It's role is to support the life you envision.

Scott 2
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by Scott 2 »

Wise advice.

I'll add that when you get to that finish line, if money has been your purpose, stopping the race could be mentally impossible. You are at peak earning and your stash is working for you, so the increases in net worth become very compelling. In my case, one more year of work means a bump in retirement spending of 20%. I am motivated to keep things going.

I think this is why you see people keep raising that number, arriving at crazy amounts like 5 million dollars. That stretch of time from 4 to 5 million might only take them 2 years. How could they stop?

wolf
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by wolf »

@Crazylemon thanks for the reply. Yeah, you are right. Enjoying the journey is something I'm trying to improve.
One part of the equation is to be content with what reality provides. The other part of the equation are ideals, dreams, wishes, etc. So I am trying to match those two. Ray Dalio puts it like this: "A successful life = dreams + reality + determination".
These days I am listening to an audio book, called "Zufriedenheit" (satisfaction, contentment, happiness). There is some food for further thinking inside the book. Besides health and ERE the third important topic for me is satisfaction with life. It is a little bit more difficult to improve because I cannot measure it so good like ERE or health. That's a challenge.

TopHatFox
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:07 pm
Location: FL; 25

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by TopHatFox »

One thing I've recently figured out is that love and exciting outdoor trips actually make it harder to do full-time office work. For example, when I'm talking to the cute nutrition girl wearing a Forever 21 Peruvian jacket and a little purple quartz necklace, man I don't want to do any work after lol. Just, like, hike through trees and makeout with the pretty blonde girl. I've had a similar feeling after coming back from a stellar outdoor trip, such as climbing in the White Mountains. I'm thinking: "damn, I just experienced a real experience with literal ups and downs, WHAT am I doing here!?"

I'd say it's easier to stay the office course when you are lonely and use video games or Netflix to get by. And I guess that's why our culture is designed to encourage this and not love or adventure? What stops the drudgery if not love?

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The backdrop to that is that working the job is what gives you the financial backing and confidence to go on the trips or to tell the pretty blonde girl to f*ck off when she's giving back-handed compliments or other bs modern behavior. Either way there's suffering it seems. And meanwhile you're aging. lol

Kriegsspiel
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by Kriegsspiel »

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:43 pm
One thing I've recently figured out is that love and exciting outdoor trips actually make it harder to do full-time office work. For example, when I'm talking to the cute nutrition girl wearing a Forever 21 Peruvian jacket and a little purple quartz necklace, man I don't want to do any work after lol. Just, like, hike through trees and makeout with the pretty blonde girl. I've had a similar feeling after coming back from a stellar outdoor trip, such as climbing in the White Mountains. I'm thinking: "damn, I just experienced a real experience with literal ups and downs, WHAT am I doing here!?"
You have to resist eating the marshmallow. You'll get two, if you can.

TopHatFox
Posts: 2322
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:07 pm
Location: FL; 25

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by TopHatFox »

If only the stupid marshmallow wasn't so tasty. :P

suomalainen
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by suomalainen »

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:43 pm
What stops the drudgery if not love?
Just wait 'til you realize that even love is drudgery. Welcome to adulthood.

Frita
Posts: 942
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:43 pm

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by Frita »

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:06 am

I've taken some solid advice from the folks here and elsewhere and am really trying to place an emphasis on trying things I may enjoy now :) Focusing on health, fitness, and being a more rounded human being.
@2birds1stone This is what I am doing post-FI. If I could do it over again, I would have started earlier. Though I do still teach part-time (addicted to school? In a horrible work culture, long story for later, working to remedy this), I have much more time that when I worked full-time in year-round administration. I do more of what I enjoy, am in some clubs and volunteer, and am getting fitter.

TopHatFox
Posts: 2322
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:07 pm
Location: FL; 25

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by TopHatFox »

suomalainen wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:52 pm
Just wait 'til you realize that even love is drudgery. Welcome to adulthood.
Interestingly, when there are zero leads or I've had a fight and turn off my phone, I think: "thank goodness I have my job to go to." It's weird. Like what if I didn't have the job nor money, I'd just sit at home and be depressed over some other person's bs who I may never even see again (even in the "LTRs" of my generation). I suppose in that way, the job begins to act as a comforting blanket as opposed to a shackle.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by BRUTE »

wow, it's almost as if love and work are just brief distractions from the gaping lack of meaning and fulfillment that is life.

subgard
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:53 pm

Re: Become FI to win the game instead of getting to XYZ reward

Post by subgard »

meaning and fulfillment are like alcoholic beverages - inventions of civilization, and not necessarily an inherent part of the human experience

If you turn off all of society's expectations in your mind, you might find that just existing without meaning is fine.

Neat trick - Make the hedonic treadmill run backwards. Stop pursuing pleasure and positive sensations. Embrace boredom, and discomfort. The reward centers of your brain will re-adjust, making previously excruciating experiences acceptable, and mundane existence the new "high".

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