Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Simple living, extreme early retirement, being wealthy, ...
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Jin+Guice
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:00 pm

Haha you guys are so bad at this. Thanks for making me feel like a true Don Juan though.

The useful advice so far is, move to a place with a bunch of chicks with whom you'll share a mutual interest and don't try too hard. You seem to already understand the not trying part, but I think you are still trying to hard. It's alright, most of us usually are. Having goals is fine, but if you're as hot and smart as say you are (and I think you probably are) just enjoy yourself. You'll meet someone alright eventually.

Thanks to Jacob for doing the math on Manic Pixie Dream Girls, it's not looking good for all those shining White Knights.

Otherwise, I would stop running numbers and try to raise your emotional and social intelligence, if you're really dedicated to trying.

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:02 pm

P.S. I visited Denver again this summer, spoiler alert, it still sucks.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by TopHatFox » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:10 pm

@Jin, what places have you frequented? This chart seems useful:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... men-2015-2

It’s interesting that in the smaller hubs, young men outnumber young women less so than in the cities. That confirms my hunch to stay away from the city.

My problem is that I used to date multiple smart and pretty women in college at the same time, and now I’ve hit a dry spell in the post-college marketplace. But I’ll get there. It may honestly just be a matter of waiting the years out a bit.

Only real way to know what places are best for happiness is to live in them for at least a few weeks. +1 to trying different places out during vacation.

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unemployable
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by unemployable » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:22 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:10 pm
Only real way to know what places are best for happiness is to live in them for at least a few weeks. +1 to trying different places out during vacation.
Visit them out of season -- in the ski towns this would be April-May and October-November. In say Seattle it would be anytime from October through May, and in Florida or the Gulf Coast it would be mid-summer. For NYC Jan-Feb or August. If it's just Denver go in winter, drive up to the mountains on a Sunday morning to come back down in the afternoon and experience the joy of the ski commute.

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:37 pm

Now that you mention it all of the cities I really like are the cities where I think I could do well with women. My top 4 cities are New York, New Orleans, Oakland and Chicago. I only like living in dense urban areas. I also liked Portland, Seattle and Austin, though West Coast people are a little new-age hippie for me, I prefer people who are a little bit mean and who disobey the orange hand at crosswalks.

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BRUTE
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by BRUTE » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:56 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:11 pm
I already have optimized for looks, uniqueness, and money. I’m fit, have fitting clothing, have a networth in the top 20% of my age, have pedigree education, and have sailed 2000 miles, biked 1000, and thru-hiked 200. The problem is that even this is often not enough in a highly competive environment, so new strategies are necessary.
brute thinks the required numbers to get laid are actually 2300 miles sailed, 2000 miles biked, and hiked at least 300 miles. is THF using an outdated reference guide?

The Old Man
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by The Old Man » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:12 pm

@TopHatFox: You are young. After you are out of college/high school you are in the real world and in the dating world you are at the bottom. It will only get better. It gets a lot easier - a lot easier - as you get older. As a man, time is on your side. In time as long as you don't give up you will develop a 'gravitas' that will vastly improve your relative competitiveness and improve your interactions with women. For women the road is more difficult; for them as time passes the competition is not getting any younger.

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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by sky » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:58 pm

Ask yourself why you want a relationship. Is it for companionship? Children/family? Sex? Aneed to fit into social norms?

If you don't plan to have children, a marriage relationship has a lot of negative aspects with few benefits for those who are not parents.

Companionship is nice but it would be highly unusual to find a companion that you like to be with all the time for decades.

Your hormones demand a sex partner but they make you vulnerable to relationships not in your best interest. Self satisfying can help reduce one's vulnerability.

Perhaps focus on hookups and spending time with partners or groups of friends that you enjoy doing things with, and avoiding at all costs any long term relationship. Long term relationships are there to take advantage of the male.

Quadalupe
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by Quadalupe » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:57 pm

BRUTE wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:56 pm
brute thinks the required numbers to get laid are actually 2300 miles sailed, 2000 miles biked, and hiked at least 300 miles. is THF using an outdated reference guide?
I guess if you are a Man Going His Own Way, you're bound to go on your own by boat, bike and boots. No wonder you don't meet any of those elusive cis-females!

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bryan
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by bryan » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:37 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:13 am
@thegreatvoid, honestly man, I think the next step after the normalization of sugar dating and cam sites featuring the girl-next-door is outright app-enabled prostitution.
Amen. As long as you could avoid some abuses (e.g. trafficking), I think it's a fine idea.
TopHatFox wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:11 pm
@ffj...
I disagree with the idea that not looking improves chances. That’s probably just being confused with the idea of not putting women on a pedestal. One can actively pursue women while not putting them on a pedestal. If I am the product, then I must present the product to my audience for them to purchase it.

It is possible that Denver has bad gender ratios, one of my concerns. That’s why I like the digital nomad idea. If a place I think might be good sucks, I can move me and my livelihood no problem.
I would agree with @ffj here.. the less you try, the more success you have. It rings true for me personally, at least. Whether that means the success of an online date (e.g. message "hey, I liked your profile, want to meet up for some coffee blah blah blah?" vs trying to make some other impression or starting a conversation) or in-person attempts (e.g. just go dance by yourself or with friends (or read a book by yourself in a bar) and wait for a woman either a) come to you or b) make eye contact and smile at you instead of hitting on people). Of course, maybe it's just what works extremely well for me?

Obviously locales matter a hell of a lot.
The Old Man wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:12 pm
@TopHatFox: You are young. After you are out of college/high school you are in the real world and in the dating world you are at the bottom. It will only get better. It gets a lot easier - a lot easier - as you get older.
Totally agree. Your "game" should get a lot better as you get older i.e. form some working heuristics. I would just warn that you don't train in, for bad environments i.e. if you hate NYC people, scene don't train yourself too deeply for what does/doesn't work there.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by TopHatFox » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:59 pm

bryan wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:37 pm
Amen. As long as you could avoid some abuses (e.g. trafficking), I think it's a fine idea.



I would agree with @ffj here.. the less you try, the more success you have. It rings true for me personally, at least. Whether that means the success of an online date (e.g. message "hey, I liked your profile, want to meet up for some coffee blah blah blah?" vs trying to make some other impression or starting a conversation) or in-person attempts (e.g. just go dance by yourself or with friends (or read a book by yourself in a bar) and wait for a woman either a) come to you or b) make eye contact and smile at you instead of hitting on people). Of course, maybe it's just what works extremely well for me?

Obviously locales matter a hell of a lot.



Totally agree. Your "game" should get a lot better as you get older i.e. form some working heuristics. I would just warn that you don't train in, for bad environments i.e. if you hate NYC people, scene don't train yourself too deeply for what does/doesn't work there.
That’s good to hear a confirmation that with more age, marketplace conditions become more favorable. I still disagree that not trying is a good strategy. Not being needy or being the one to ask for a relationship fine, but avoiding effort? No way. The only way I dated literally 20 women in the 8 semesters of college and 4 summers was by consistently going to relevant events, scouting for leads, asking for dates until I found one that stuck around for at least s few months. It was a lot of work, but I had some of my most meaningful adventures as a result.

I’m not going to sit like these MGTOW people and quit. That said, the concept of warm leads is definitely a phenomenon. Women often signal with their stares if they’re available and how much they’re into you. Doing warm approaches is much better than going up to random women.

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BRUTE
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by BRUTE » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:19 pm

Quadalupe wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:57 pm
I guess if you are a Man Going His Own Way
that sounds like a lot of work

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:39 pm

I remember a number of years ago,on one of the rare occasions I was actually completely without partner, I saw a man sitting by himself in a restaurant devouring a large plate of food with obvious relish, and I was almost tempted to approach him, because it seemed like he might have a similarity lusty appetite in bed.

Women are humans and humans are weird. You simply can’t render desire subject to logic.

That said, and this advice is applicable to members of both genders, you are probably more likely to come off as attractive when you are thinking about what you like about members of the gender you wish to date.

For instance:

1) chest hair
2) good about locking up the house at night
3) biceps
4) direct communication style
5) hard to hurt them when wrestling

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Jin+Guice
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by Jin+Guice » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:30 pm

I think we are all meaning different things by not trying. Maybe not caring is a better way of saying it? Like I said, I think you are already pretty much doing this.

Perhaps part of the problem here is that giving blanket dating advice ignores which piece of the dating game you're actually having trouble with. It seems like you're having trouble meeting girls you like. Are you having trouble getting women to go out with you, finding women you want to go out with or are you going out with them and you don't like them?

I would definitely try changing your city. If you really don't feel like doing that though, I mean, Miami is big. There really isn't a bar or area of town or whatever where the kind of chicks you like hang out?

You listed absurd criteria in the beginning but then you say you dated 20 women who fit these criteria in college? I've been to Massachusetts a bunch of times and I failed to find the unending supply of kind sexy environmentalists you seem to have tapped into. How did you find them there? I've also been to Miami, are you just not that into butts?

I'm not a fan of all this market talk and trend and demographic analysis. I don't believe being older is an advantage for a man, but I do believe it is a disadvantage for a woman. We're not in fucking Wuthering Heights here, there's always an unending supply of beautiful women (and men) waiting to date you, sometimes you just lose the magic for a little while. If you want to see a beautiful successful 28 year old woman date an alcoholic 42 year old barback with a face tattoo come visit me in New Orleans and you can watch the bubble pop every night at 3 A.M.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by TopHatFox » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:53 pm

Jin+Guice wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:30 pm

Perhaps part of the problem here is that giving blanket dating advice ignores which piece of the dating game you're actually having trouble with. It seems like you're having trouble meeting girls you like. Are you having trouble getting women to go out with you, finding women you want to go out with or are you going out with them and you don't like them?

I would definitely try changing your city. If you really don't feel like doing that though, I mean, Miami is big. There really isn't a bar or area of town or whatever where the kind of chicks you like hang out?

You listed absurd criteria in the beginning but then you say you dated 20 women who fit these criteria in college? I've been to Massachusetts a bunch of times and I failed to find the unending supply of kind sexy environmentalists you seem to have tapped into. How did you find them there? I've also been to Miami, are you just not that into butts?
I’d say the #1 issue is meeting hippy, environmentalist types here. So that’s where I could use the most work. The second piece is that Miami has one of the highest rates of ghosting in the country. It is not uncommon for people to have 0 meaningful friends here. Usually I just call people out when they flake at the last minute and then set a an expectation that it’s not alright, but then they just ghost. It’s not a problem one can just fix with individual solutions. The beauty of intentional communities or smaller towns is that it’s harder for people to ghost, because you see them in person inevitably.

Honestly man, I didn’t find them, Amherst College did. AC has a 13% acceptance rate and a sharp class divide, meaning better dieting and higher IQs. All I had to do was to individually go for all of women that went to environmental-related events and talk to them. If they show signs of interest I ask them out, ask them for tea in my apartment, and so on...good times. This strategy often resulted in at least a relationship for a semester or a year, sometimes overlapping. I remember a 50 mile hike protest where all me and a cute asian girl did is talk philosophy and make out with each other in the intermittent camping stops. We didn’t even know of one another before the hike, but after we were gf & bf for a year.

This has me thinking, as much as I’m over the SJW part of my life, perhaps there’s a climate justice group in Miami I can join. They’re usually dominated by well-educated, compassionate, thin white women (a lot of them are kinky to boot). I have a good feeling about this idea.

——-

oh lookey what I’ve found:

350 South Florida, Miami Climate Alliance, Sierra Club Miami, Love the Everglades Movement

I can see it now. “Yes, I work for the Sociology Department and cycled 700 miles while advocating for climate justice. It felt great to contribute. Also, orange man bad. What brought you out to this protest?” *evil laugh*

——-

Jut got another brilliant idea. Sending out networking emails to recent AC grads living in the area. lol, getting a gf is starting to seem like networking for a job.

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TheWanderingScholar
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by TheWanderingScholar » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:03 am

As someone who is heavily agnostic living in one of the least religious countries in Europe, this thread makes me think one thought:
Some of y'all need Jesus in your life. Or something. Because lorde, I could smell the despair from this side of the Atlantic through this computer.

Anyways.


@TopHatFox:
Yeah, if you care about having deep, meaningful relationships like you had in Amherst, you are probably not going to find it in the Miami. The entirety of South Florida gives off this cultural vibe of fakeness, imo from what I have seen of it. Then again I hate NYC sized cities, and find smaller cities (<1 million) like Riga more of my style.
Second, to build of @jacob advice, craft a personality who you like to become and treat your friendships, which might become relationships. Friendships and relationships are there own things with emergent properties. Seriously, I don't act the same way with everyone and same with me. Also chart your life goals. Honestly, if you are planning on moving to Colorado for your own happiness in the short-term, don't bother with dating and just enjoy your life with friends.
Enjoy creating friendships and enjoy your time spent with other people. Those friendships you will make with those people, will fill the heart of your soul better than any woman in bed will. Those stories will make you a more interesting person to hang out with and maybe date.
Seriously, as an introvert, I though I would be last person giving this advice.


P.S.
Also, I would say if you want slim, hippies with a logical side I would suggest going up to Riga in Latvia as that area has much in the way cultural speaking but the weather sucks ass so there is that.
What the fuck does MGTOW mean, homie?

Seppia
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by Seppia » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:59 am

I loved Jacob's post, it very accurately describes what I went trough.
The shif in focus from "me" to "you" to "us" was the exact evolution I also experienced.

While I believe most people approach relationships with not nearly enough rationality, I would say that maybe too much rationality kinda kills the human aspect of it.
The human aspect is the most beautiful part of any relationship in my opinion (love or friendship), and missing on it means missing on the very best part of human life.

I don't have any suggestion as to how to "see" or "feel" the human side of it, all I'll say is that it really is amazing when you do.
TheWanderingScholar wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:03 am
What the fuck does MGTOW mean, homie?
Men going their own way

Men that say today's women are terrible and hence prefer to stay alone.
They would obviously love to have a partner, but pretend they don't because it's easier to blame others than to admit your own mistakes/failures/weaknesses.

Basically, it's the misogynist version of the complainypants that say they cannot get ahead financially because everything is rigged against them.

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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by thegreatvoid » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:46 am

@Seppia you're confusing Incels or True-Forced-Loneliness with Mgtow . Incels are guys who can't get laid , but really want to .

Mgtow is more of a philosophy . It's recognizing that there are obvious biological or psychological differences between the sexes and that hypergamy is very real. Some date or some some go monk ( give up women ) , it's up to every man to decide for himself . It's not a community with rules and leaders . They are not trying to change the feminist laws ( like MRAs)

It's very similar to the herbivore men in Japan . Just a peaceful passive protest against the current system , which tells us there is such a thing as male -privilege , although statistics clearly paint a different picture ...

93% of work related deaths are men
Men commit suicide at 4 times the rate of women
Women initiate 70 % of divorces
82 % costudy is granted to women
40% of domestic victims are men
93% of homicide victims are men
Men get longer jail sentences for the same crime
Since the gulf war 97% of combat victims have been men
Educational gap , more women graduate from colleges ( men earn 42 % of bachelor degrees )
Women <30 earn more money than men

There are also a lot of similarities between ERE and Mgtow , as it also promotes a minimalistic lifestyle , reaching financial independence and decoupling from our consumerist / Financial System as much as possible .
In general just examine once life and thinking there is maybe more to life than a 9-5 , wife , 2 kids . Not being a slave to a society , that doesn't appreciate once's effort .

Stahlmann
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by Stahlmann » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:03 am

Men that say today's women are terrible and hence prefer to stay alone.
They would obviously love to have a partner, but pretend they don't because it's easier to blame others than to admit your own mistakes/failures/weaknesses.

Basically, it's the misogynist version of the complainypants that say they cannot get ahead financially because everything is rigged against them.
Is there any way to present disinterest in current relationship landscape without receiving any insults? :roll: ?

Are men not allowed to provide concerns on current masculinity? :Roll:

Last paragraph - no comment.

thegreatvoid
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Re: Will the cis-female bubble ever pop?

Post by thegreatvoid » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:15 am

@stahlmann @seppia

I'm sure people, who persue ERE are often called complainypants by regular people and that we should just man'up and accept the grind , like everybody else . We have a obligation to work till 65 , blablabla

Ease up a little on the judging.
One thing I love about the journals on this forum , is that people can express their inner struggles and receive productive advice from other smart people . In real life it isn't possible to express a lot of the ideas and vulnerability . Especially as a man , because people shame you for displaying any sign of weakness

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