Asbestos

[BYC]

My house has forced air heating. Some of the duct work has asbestos paper on the outside of it. It is all sealed in walls and above ceilings except for at the registers where the duct work guides the air into the rooms. If i remove the register and slightly bend back the metal duct I can see the asbestos. As I understand it, asbestos is reasonably safe as long as it is not disturbed. I am worried though that some of it already has been torn by the screws that hold the registers in place. To have the asbestos professionally removed would cost many many thousands. So far, my only attempt at a 'solution' was to try to seal the asbestos in using bathroom/kitchen silicone sealant to fill the gap between the metal ducting and drywall. I did this on one register and it seemed to work fairly well. If I do the others like this I should probably use outdoor sealant in case of thermal expansion contraction.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Is it necessary, or worth it to go the professional route?

Thanks.

[chenda]

I would get a professional opinion. My understanding is that most (though not all) types of asbestos is safe undisturbed. Consider though future resale issues, some buyers may run scared.

It also may be illegal where you are to remove asbestos if your not a licensed contractor.

My parents house had an asbestos garage (which I use to play in when small ) which my dad took down by soaking it with water to stop the dust going spreading, and wearing a mask and body suit. Can't remember what he did with the asbestos panels themselves. But I wouldn't recommend this, an unnecessary health risk.

[Riggerjack]

I used to work in construction, asbestos is just part and parcel of that life. But while I may have worked with and around abatement crews, I never had to actually do it.

I few ideas of how the pros do it. If you are drilling through asbestos tile, spray some shaving cream, and drill through that. The cream will catch all the loose debris, and you can wipe it, bag the towels, and dispose of it.

Asbestos wrapped pipes are generally left alone. Not worth bothering about. I have worked in enclosed places with asbestos, it is generally not bad.

To give you a good idea of the health hazard you are facing, I talked to an abatement crew, and we swapped stories. My favorite:

The foreman was telling me about a building they had worked on. Fully tented, pressurized, filtered. Gutted to the framing, and cleaned. And cleaned. And cleaned. And when they tested, results came back with too high an airborne asbestos level, 4 times. His boss is losing his mind, nobody can figure out where this is coming from. They are redoing work that was done right the first and second time, the job is hemoraging money. So, the foreman decided to test the test. He took an air sample going down I-5, on his way in to work. Just stuck the jar out the window at 60 mph. Sealed up, sent it in for testing. He figured if it came back dirty, the problem was with the lab. Switch labs, collect a check, move on to the next job.

But the sample didn't come back dirty. It came back with higher asbestos levels than he had ever seen. He had better results on jobs in progress, with the asbestos flying. Totally freaked him out. Now, not only did he have a building that wouldn't pass, he had a test in the building's file that was worse that he'd ever seen. He had to call in the owner of the abatement company. He worked out the problem with the owner, and I don't remember the details. But his boss laughed about the I-5 sample.

Brake pads for most of the 20th century were made from asbestos. Using brakes causes the pads to wear. They wear into asbestos dust, that settles around the roads. The highest asbestos levels anyone not working in a shipyard or a mine is ever going to run into is going to be on the road.

So, now you see the general issue, abatement has raised the fear factor of asbestos to the point that they get paid well to make the invisible problem go away. And 20 years ago, they were aware that asbestos abatement wouldn't last forever, and they started pushing lead as the emperor's new abatement problem. Maybe you have heard of it?

For your specific issue, the asbestos is outside the duct. Any conditioned air that contacts it is leaving the duct system in the form of leaks. Leaks go to unconditioned spaces. But you say it is encased. To me, this sounds like it is wrapped in drywall. If that's the case, you are golden. Wrapped in sheetrock, sealed and painted. So the air leakage will be going to an attic, or a crawlspace? Put on a mask, make sure that duct is insulated, (beyond the asbestos) and mention it in your disclosure when you sell, whenever that is.

If you really want to seal some specific point, use pooky. That's what the HVAC guys call their duct sealant. Get a chip brush from harbor freight, some nitrile gloves, and brush some pooky into place. It is available at HD, and under 10 bucks. It is long term elastic, and temperature rated for duct systems. That is your fix. Good luck.

[Riggerjack]

Oh, I should mention, asbestos is very stable. It doesn't react, to cause issues, it doesn't degrade much, it is just a fine fiber, with some temperature resistance that is so amazing we still use it in specific new ways.

The hazard of asbestos is that it is a very fine glass fiber. Much finer that fiberglass. And because it doesn't react, if it gets in your lungs,it stays there. By itself, not that bad. We all have some inorganic material in our lungs, is just part of life. But asbestos is so fine, the points of the fibers will damage cells, some of the time, instead of killing them. Killed cells are removed as part of your immune system. But damaged cells can multiply. And in theory, that is the asbestos-cancer link.

Keep it out of your lungs. Every bit is costing you. And roads are your main exposure source. Probably not the sort of thing bicyclists want to think about.

[BRUTE]

why roads

[ducknalddon]

Keep it out of your lungs. Every bit is costing you. And roads are your main exposure source. Probably not the sort of thing bicyclists want to think about.

There was some research in the UK that showed car drivers were exposed to more particulates than cyclists and pedestrians, probably because air inlets in cars are so close to the ground.

[ducknalddon]

Probably best to avoid snowball fights with it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15268759

[Riggerjack]

Well, cars now have particulate filters in their ducts, and the inlet is between the hood and windshield. But once asbestos gets into the interior of the car, I would expect it to leave in someone's lungs, most of the time. Yes, some will settle out as dust, go out a window, etc.

Whereas a bicyclist will be moving a lot more air, so I would expect the bicyclist to be the better asbestos filter. Even though the particulate levels may be higher in cars.

I didn't mean to turn this into a bicycle vs car debate. I meant to put the risk of asbestos, wrapped around a duct encased in plaster, into a perspective that people can relate to.

We stopped using asbestos in brake pads decades ago. We introduced a new product with very little chemical reactivity, and extreme durability into our environment. It will slowly be contained in concentrated form in coffins. Whether it causes a death or not. Then in undisturbed earth, like before we started.

It's just gonna take a while.

[Riggerjack]

But, in either case, driving or cycling, asbestos is not the primary cause of long, or short term casualties. In an asbestos rich environment.

So undisturbed asbestos, in your home, is not likely to be your cause of death, either.

[subgard]

There are manuals on asbestos abatement (to prepare people for certification to work in the field). They should provide all the info you need to do your own abatement. I think the legality depends on the state.

https://www.amazon.com/Construction-Haz ... M6055AMR2T

Most of the hazard from asbestos comes from being a smoker. Smoke paralyzes the cilia that remove particles from the lungs. So dangerous particles like asbestos stay in the lungs and cause problems.

[eudaimonia]

As a former Certified Asbestos Consultant, my recommendation is that as long as you aren't disturbing the asbestos and it is: 1) intact, or 2) encapsulated you should be fine. The suggestion that Riggerjack provided above of using some pooky or other sealant to repair the damaged portions is reasonable.

I wouldn't consider abating it yourself because to do it right is frankly a pain. Abatement crews create a plastic enclosure for the entire area they are working in, subject it to negative pressure with huge HEPA fans, wear protective clothing and negative pressure masks (not dust masks like you tend to find at home repair stores), and most importantly they have a trained technician with lab qualifications to take air samples and use a microscope on site to ensure asbestos concentrations are below the required state and federal guidelines.

@Riggerjack - regarding your abatement crew story it sounds like a bad sample and a bad lab to me. Most of our labs would just give you a CNR (could not read) if the air sample came in too dirty (which is why it pays to have a tech on-site who takes proper measurements). I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of our air samples came back CNR from the lab if you just stuck it out the window on I-5 (in LA I'm guessing).

[Riggerjack]

Seattle, but it can be hard to see a difference, nowadays.

[BYC]

Exactly what I needed to hear; voices of reason when it comes to the Asbestos Fear, and some practical advice. I'll give 'er the Pookie treatment and be done with it. Thank you.