The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

What skills to learn, what tools to get
BRUTE
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by BRUTE » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:53 pm

jacob wrote:An internet that's free but ignorant and full of trash that's either wrong or irrelevant---largely governed by algorithmic remixes of information with no way of knowing whether it's right or wrong (but nobody cares because all that matters is whether it's entertaining.
it's called social media

steveo73
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by steveo73 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:37 pm

BRUTE wrote:
jacob wrote:An internet that's free but ignorant and full of trash that's either wrong or irrelevant---largely governed by algorithmic remixes of information with no way of knowing whether it's right or wrong (but nobody cares because all that matters is whether it's entertaining.
it's called social media
This is funny and true.

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by jacob » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:47 am

While funny, I think that was a bit flippant. My point was, what happens when the web becomes "100% social media" widely adopting the norms and methods of social media. This means no more single standing websites (they will be social); no more news reporting (it will be algorithmically combined tweets); no forums (it will be a newsfeed that either limits thoughts to 140 characters or wants you to convert ideas that are longer then 3 sentences into a note); no search engines (because if it's important somebody will "share" it in the feed).

In very relevant news, we now have algorithmically supported fact checking.
http://www.businessinsider.com/google-n ... re-2016-10

You know how it's already the case that some believe they've "done their research" if they spent 5 minutes on google (this is an act of learned helplessness or adopted ignorance) but much worse: they also think that most others operate under the same standard (this is stupid and destructive). Now I wonder whether some will believe that any statement is true as long as nothing weird pops up when they click on the "Full Fact" link.

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by cmonkey » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:44 am

I would term that the 'unthinking' web, and also claim that the unthinking web is basically already here since most web traffic these days serves no purpose other than to entertain or argue in no beneficial manner. Adding algorithmic support doesn't really change that much other than moving more toward "hyper unthinking". You'd need some sort 'smart algorithm' that is trying to fight off the unthinking force. This forum ( and several others ) are still part of the 'thinking' web in that at least some form of intelligence, civility and humility remain. The stack exchange sites also do a decent job of trying to maintain this.

In my eyes the split has already occurred and is just widening. Perhaps I've got the wrong image in my mind.
Last edited by cmonkey on Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by jacob » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:48 am

@cmonkey - I'm stealing that term.

steveo73
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by steveo73 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:54 pm

I don't see that extreme approach happening or maybe better put that extreme approach being the only option. I use the Internet a lot but I don't use social media (assuming we classify forums like this as not social media).

I'll use You Tube as an example. There are lots of serious videos on You Tube as well as a lot of crap. There will always though be the demand for more serious entertainment.

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by enigmaT120 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:41 pm

I do classify this forum and many others I'm on as social media. Why wouldn't we?

BRUTE
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by BRUTE » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:23 pm

cause it's not shit

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by steveo73 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:46 am

enigmaT120 wrote:I do classify this forum and many others I'm on as social media. Why wouldn't we?
I agree that you can do this but for me personally I classify social media as facebook, twitter & things like Tumblr.

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by enigmaT120 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:35 pm

I'm not on any of those. Is this antisocial media?

GandK
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by GandK » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:51 pm

Catching up on threads. This one is awesome, Ego.
enigmaT120 wrote:Is this antisocial media?
:lol: This forum is.

@IlliniDave

Your posts above remind me of the conversation we had about how you de-stress and happify by quieting ambient thoughts and I de-stress and happify by directing them. Opposite tactics both yielding good results.

@jacob

I'm not sure whether allegiance to objective reality is required for the sort of intellectual reinvention that Ego is suggesting will be necessary going forward (if that's true). In fact, it almost strikes me as a hindrance. Without passing judgment on either group, I wonder if those whose reality hinges on either the objective or the subjective might not be handicapped in a fluid ideological system that demands the deft navigation of both.

@Ego

As to what's required, I agree with those who say that intellectual "openness" is key, but am uncertain how to cultivate that value in those who are bent more toward finding a single best strategy for X and not budging from that strategy thereafter (or even being open to revisiting the topic). When there are those who will not even acknowledge that there's more than one way to load a dishwasher, discussing how to reinvent oneself on a regular basis seems almost quixotic.

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Ego
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by Ego » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:50 am

GandK wrote: @Ego

As to what's required, I agree with those who say that intellectual "openness" is key, but am uncertain how to cultivate that value in those who are bent more toward finding a single best strategy for X and not budging from that strategy thereafter (or even being open to revisiting the topic). When there are those who will not even acknowledge that there's more than one way to load a dishwasher, discussing how to reinvent oneself on a regular basis seems almost quixotic.
I agree that intellectual openness is important. It's funny you should mention it. I've been turning this idea over in my head for a while now as I've come up against it on several unrelated occasions.

A leader trying to get a group to brainstorm a solution to the dishwasher loading problem would say something like, "Say anything that comes to mind. There are no wrong answer." Someone will say, "The pots go on top and the plates on the bottom," then the joker in the group will say, "We all stand across the room and throw the pots, pans, plates and silverware toward the dishwasher and aerodynamics will determine the most efficient loading technique."

We've been told for so long that creative solutions flow from an intellectual openness that is itself the result of no-wrong-answer thinking that we now have come to believe that, either:

-entertaining the idea that wrong answers exist for any given problem is closed minded -or-
-there are no objectively wrong answers

Open-mindedness is important especially when looking for creative solutions. When applying that creativity to the real world it must take into account (or filter through?) objective reality. In other words, applying objective reality to creative solutions is not close mindedness.

Some have spent so much time throwing plates like frisbees at dishwashers that they've turned it into a hobby. It's fun! The broken plates are part of the fun, so that makes it the right solution.

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by Ego » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:02 am

Technologically induced learned helplessness
http://thewalrus.ca/global-impositioning-systems/

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Ego
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by Ego » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:39 am

Dragline wrote:
cmonkey wrote:
Ego wrote:Kids born today will probably never drive a car.
A pretty bold suggestion and I tend to agree with it but not for the reason you believe....
Yeah, I don't see this happening anytime soon in the US except on a very limited basis in some kind of "model community", largely for legal and cultural reasons.
You may be right, but then again maybe you are underestimating our ability to adapt culturally.

I wonder if Tesla's technique of having the wealthy fund development that will benefit the masses isn't also a way to get those who have a greater influence on the system to buy in. Paint It Black!

https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self- ... tesla-cars

ETA: Then again, California is kind of a model community. :D

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by cmonkey » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:04 am

Impressive. I didn't know that anyone had gotten as far as actual full autonomous highway & interstate driving. I tend to keep my clamb shell pretty well clamped on 'trendy' these days. ;)

In any event, unless some miracle technology pops up that replaces dense, liquid fuel, these will be short lived and reserved for the very elite. Electric is a solution for now, but no one is going to be doing all the excavating required for more 'battery parts' with electric backhoes and diggers.

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by bryan » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:37 pm

Dragline wrote:
cmonkey wrote:
Ego wrote:Kids born today will probably never drive a car.
A pretty bold suggestion and I tend to agree with it but not for the reason you believe. Grand kids perhaps. Self-driving cars have replaced flying cars after everyone figured out that wouldn't work. There is nothing beyond a few dog and pony shows put out by a couple of "super smart" companies to suggest they will be here on a mass scale within our lifetimes.
Yeah, I don't see this happening anytime soon in the US except on a very limited basis in some kind of "model community", largely for legal and cultural reasons. (Commercial trucking from depot-to-depot along major highways might be different.) It would be more likely to occur in modern places with strong governments like Singapore, Dubai or one of the newer cities in China. The key to making it work is really banning most human-driven cars and trucks in a given area and then normalizing all the streets in some machine-friendly manner.
I think Tesla has made a really nice strategic move by outfitting their fleet with all of the sensors, hardware needed for self-driving and feeding all the data back to HQ where it can be used as a training/testing/regression set. The gradual shift of collecting while humans drive -> collect while highway drive assist is on -> collect while full auto plus the ability to do a software update for an improved full auto which has been back, regression tested already sets Tesla up to introduce full auto years before the competition. As far as collecting driving, environment data goes: Tesla >> Google >> Auto Manufacturers. Self-driving is _already_ at mass scale (Model S, Model 3, Model X I mean), it's just not enabled (you already paid for it, assuming Tesla doesn't charge for the full auto software update).

https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self- ... tesla-cars

Banning human drivers and making streets machine-friendly would be nice, but Tesla, Google have known that it's not likely before they even started development for self-driving.
jacob wrote:While funny, I think that was a bit flippant. My point was, what happens when the web becomes "100% social media" widely adopting the norms and methods of social media. This means no more single standing websites (they will be social); no more news reporting (it will be algorithmically combined tweets); no forums (it will be a newsfeed that either limits thoughts to 140 characters or wants you to convert ideas that are longer then 3 sentences into a note); no search engines (because if it's important somebody will "share" it in the feed).
Well we can consider what happened as we transitioned from word of mouth, assemblies -> carrier services e.g. mail -> printing press -> telegraph -> telephone -> radio -> television -> internet/email/forums -> cell phones/texting -> social media silos (youtube, Vine, Twitter, Instagram, FB, snapchat). Kind of for better or worse.. More accessible communication mechanisms means the general public has grown in importance (consuming and producing).

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by jacob » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:02 pm

Fake news getting worse. So it's clear now what happens when people won't bother to verify, but what happens when they can't verify.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/30/media/f ... index.html

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by jacob » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:03 pm

Twitter suffering under its own format. It's easier to insult someone with an anonymous 140 chars than it is discuss publicly as adults. Consider twitter an extreme case. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... ng-twitter

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Ego
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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by Ego » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:07 pm

Ego wrote:
jacob wrote: But perhaps that is exactly the "emotional uncertainty" that Harari is talking about?! If facts don't matter then it does indeed become very important to learn how to deal with a society where facts are irrelevant and all that matters are emotional perceptions, facts be damned.
Well, he seems to think the algos will solve that problem through manipulation on a scale that is unimaginable to us even though we've been playing the game for a few years now.

Watch 3 minutes from the starting point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ1yS9J ... e&t=49m14s
I have not read it yet, but I believe Informocracy by Malka Older touches on this. The publisher has made it available for free. It is available until midnight eastern tonight.

http://giveaway.tor.com/

Image

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Re: The Skills Necessary for Constant Reinvention

Post by jacob » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:34 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... y-theories ... and more.

Some recent coverage describing how it's been profitable to set up fake-news sites and write targeted niche content to have be shared a few thousand times on social media and get the resulting ad money from uninformed people clicking back. The example I saw was a 17 year old teenager in Macedonia running a news site writing targeted fake news much like an aspiring romance writer might focus their writing efforts on writing kindle short stories. Once an article gets disproven and taken down or stops getting shared, the website owner could already have made a few hundred bucks in ad revenue from people clicking back.

This is a case where the AI sharing algorithms coupled with innate human social tendencies and ignorance is mutually reinforcing. It's actually quite genius but it's hard to imagine how this can be a good thing.

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