Energy Prepping?

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Gilberto de Piento
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Energy Prepping?

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

A year of covid plus the recent Texas energy failures* :shock: have left me thinking about prepping for keeping electricity, heat, and water available in my house. My house is connected to the grid for electricity, natural gas, and water. I would consider big solutions like a woodstove, solar panels, battery bank, generator, etc. but I don't think I'll be in this house too much longer so they don't make sense right now.

If anyone has any direct experience of doing the above items on a house that is also tied into the grid I'd be happy to hear about it but mostly I'm interested in relatively cheap "half measures" that I could implement one at a time to give me some backups if one or more parts of the grid go down. For example, I have no way to burn wood in the house but I could get a stack of firewood and have a small fire in the yard to warm up and cook with. For another example, I could get a portable solar panel and compatible small usb battery pack to keep the phones charged with. I can google a million prepper articles but I think what I am looking for are more ERE type ideas, particularly things people have actually tried. Thanks!

*https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN2AH0S5

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Alphaville
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Alphaville »

i mentioned some of this in the @7w5 threads about housing, but basically some camping supplies are helpful as half measures: extra clothes layers for absent heating, solar/manual chargers for devices and led lights, propane/butane stoves for cooking (and emergency heating).

eta: there is a way to make a little rocket stove that runs on twigs.

eta: if your region's utilities are winterized, temp shouldn't be a concern(eg for heating). but ofc there are service disruptions.

for water i keep a few gallons of drinking water from the supermarket, even if i regularly don't buy water. i also have some water cubes that i don't want to keep permanently filled but could fill up with some advanced warning.

i'll post link(s) here later
--
- water cubes: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Reliance-Pro ... /447217787

-this is consumer and not ere but i keep one of these for convenience. i like it better than the propane models due to conpactness and efficiency: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Tabl ... y/34761205 and i've used mine indoors

-i haven't seen butane heaters, but there are plenty indoor safe propane heaters that will run off a 1lb bottle in an emergency. eg see: https://www.walmart.com/ip/15-44-000-BT ... /445099437

-the same standard 1lb propane bottle will power these: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Clas ... ner/895629 (it's too bulky for me and it's for outdoor use but you can just open a window.

-emergency blankets are cheap and fit anywhere https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trail- ... /336932569 (you can find fancier models at rei, etc)
Last edited by Alphaville on Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

white belt
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by white belt »

This has been written about in other prepping threads before. You should start with your specific use cases and build up from there. Bulk storage of typical items you consume is the first step and can likely get you through disruptions as long as a week. Longer disruptions require more complex systems usually.

Also it helps to know how much your household consumes in terms of energy, food, and water to get an idea of how much you would need for an extended period.

It’s impossible to give more specific advice without knowing your use case, region, household disposition, etc.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Thanks for the replies. I will try to answer your questions below.

Your posts made me think more about what info I am looking for. I think I am OK on the bare necessities to scrape by if things get bad. I started storing food when covid showed up and I think I'm good enough in that department. I have 12 gallons of water stored plus a water filter I can use on creek water if needed. I have a decent amount of camping gear including a couple of types of stoves with fuel to last a while.

I think what I want to figure out is how to make life carry on more like normal if natural gas/electricity are not available. Keep the house somewhat warm, keep at least some light available indefinitely, keep some sort of communications with the outside world going.

I am in the upper midwest: it gets very cold but everything is set up for cold weather, it gets hot but not super hot, lots of snow in the winter and rain in the summer.

The gasifier stove idea is a good one. If I combined a large DIY gasifier stove with a pile of dry wood I could split the wood into small pieces and use the stove to cook. A solar panel and a battery to keep the phones going would also be helpful, as would a survival radio to be able to find out what is going on.

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Alphaville
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Alphaville »

only problem with the rocket stove is you can't burn it indoors unless it's built in, so it wouldn't help you "keep the house somewhat warm."

the one real problem with a cold house is frozen pipes, so maybe empty most of them and add sewer antifreeze to the unused facilities? then you could maybe focus on keeping one faucet and one viable, eg., whatever is closest to the water meter, and keep that space warm.

everything else with regards to cold can be handled, like shutting down spare rooms and spaces , adding a bit of passive solar (eg greenhouse plastic in porches, hanged from rafters, etc.), and so forth. even in higher latitudes a bit of passive solar can help somewhat--even if it's just as an extra layer of house insulation

white belt
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by white belt »

Gilberto de Piento wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:47 pm
I think what I want to figure out is how to make life carry on more like normal if natural gas/electricity are not available. Keep the house somewhat warm, keep at least some light available indefinitely, keep some sort of communications with the outside world going. I recommend with starting with what resources a normal day requires, then figure out how to reduce those resources, and finally figure out how can obtain/store those resources in an off grid scenario.

I am in the upper midwest: it gets very cold but everything is set up for cold weather, it gets hot but not super hot, lots of snow in the winter and rain in the summer.
What is your definition of normal? The reason I ask is because that’s really a subjective term. Consider that on this forum there are people who have adapted to indoor temperatures in the 40’s and 50’s, but from the typical American perspective that would not be considered normal. If your normal is having a 3 bedroom house heated to 70 degrees in the winter, then you’re going to require way more resources to get to that point without a power grid.

In the case of cold temps, already being comfortable with operating at a lower ambient temperature (with clothes, heating people not spaces, etc) is going to make your system a lot easier to implement. Check out Low Tech Magazine for lots of ideas about heating/cooling in this solution space.

Alphaville is hitting on a lot of the big stuff. If temperatures are really cold, your bigger concern once individual bodies are adequately heated is that you might lose your water supply. You can mitigate this with water storage in large quantities in a relatively sheltered place (basement?). In fact a basement is extremely helpful because it will require less heating in a cold scenario due to being underground (also helpful in a heat wave scenario with no A/C).

Off grid heating sources could be propane or wood, depending on your area. Propane is good because it can be stored in large quantities, but is flammable and requires special appliances. Wood is easy because it can be more sustainable if you have access to firewood, but requires infrastructure like a wood stove with exhaust pipe to use it. Food storage shouldn’t be an issue in cold weather, but you’ll need to ensure you have a heat source and water for cooking.

Edit: Sewage is also going to be an issue with frozen pipes, so you might want to have a backup compost toilet bucket system you can implement in such a scenario.

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Alphaville
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Alphaville »

white belt wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:07 pm
Propane is good because it can be stored in large quantities, but is flammable and requires special appliances.
however, a 20lB propane tank is affordable at $35 (plus fillup) portable/non-permanent, and can be fitted to power up camping heaters, stoves, etc.

since he's not staying in the current house, i'd look at a couple of 20lb tanks: use one while the other gets refilled. a 20lb tank can cook for a very long time.. i used to cook for 2 people with 1lb/week bottles.

for heating all day, for a room... depends on insulation, size, etc... say 2lb/day in optimal setting? 10lb/day in suboptimal? hence 2 to 10 days per tank? enough till fema arrives.

and the indoor heaters are also portable--but around $200 for a decent one. nevertheless, expense beats freezing or dying from co/asphyxia.

20lb is the size usually attached to campers, they have dual regulators so you can switch them when one runs out.
Last edited by Alphaville on Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

white belt
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by white belt »

@Alphaville

Yeah I think propane as a backup heat and cooking source might be the best solution for something short term for all the reasons you list. I’m sure there are many people in Texas thinking the same thing right now. Wood is more of a long term resilience solution.

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Alphaville
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Alphaville »

white belt wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:21 pm
I’m sure there are many people in Texas thinking the same thing right now.
hank hill must be selling out of propane and propane accessories! :lol:

niemand
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by niemand »

Gilberto de Piento wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:47 pm
keep at least some light available indefinitely, keep some sort of communications with the outside world going.
Have a look at this handcrank/solar/battery powered radio/flashlight/charger thingamagic: https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07YTSDLL1 ... 12_TE_item

Generally I think it makes sense to have redundancy in ones setup. Some personal examples below, maybe it’s helpful. I’m in heat zone 4 / cold zone 10 with bushfire experience, so may not be quite applicable to your situation:

Heating - I’ve got ducted gas heating, but I’ve also got small reverse cycle aircon units in the bedrooms that can heat via the grid or via solar (note: my solar setup has no battery because $$$).

Cooling - In addition to the grid, my solar panels can power aircon, the fridge and charge phones etc. as long as there is enough sunshine.

Light - I’ve got some solar light cubes on the deck outside that can be taken indoors at night as a bedside table lamp. I’ve also got a few super bright battery-powered camping lanterns and plenty of spare aaa batteries.

Communication - Using 4G, broadband, wifi, TV streaming and AM & FM radio. No landline phone or TV antenna. DW and my mobile phones are on the same carrier, which may be a weak spot. Apart from grid or solar power and above-mentioned handcrank/solar/battery powered radio/flashlight/charger thingamagic, my ryobi power tool battery can be plugged into an inverter and become a power point for device charging. The car can function as a charger too, and has a radio.

Cooking - I’ve got a natural gas cook stove, but also got a bottled LPG barbecue in the backyard. Thinking of getting/building a wood fire pit, too.

Water - my weakest point: if tap stops working, I live 3 minutes to a creek and a lake, so could carry water home... A small water tank (2,000 litres?) or at least a barrel might not be a bad idea. No risk of freezing where I am.
Last edited by niemand on Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sky
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by sky »

I thought through my situation after seeing what happened in Texas. I filled a 5 gallon jug with fresh drinking water (I already had 15 gallons but it has been sitting in jugs for a while). I need to get a few propane canisters to use with a camp stove if the natural gas gets cut off. I also want to get some more firewood next spring.

Our woodstove can heat the entire house, no problem. We have a few kerosene lamps throughout the house filled and ready for electric power failure. We have quite a few gallons of water stored in the basement. We have heavy quilts to sleep under in cold weather. Our freezer is full of food, if power goes out, I will have to move it to a cooler outdoors where it is below freezing.

If a tornado or tree destroys the house, I have a camper van fueled up and ready to go, just need to bring food, water and clothes and I can go anywhere.

ertyu
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by ertyu »

I am accidentally semi-prepped in that I currently live without a refrigerator and I am developing skills for reducing electricity and heating bills. While I am nowhere near where I would like to be in this respect (still feeling a lot like consumer deprivation :lol:), trying to find ways to reduce bills will bring one a long way towards being temperature resilient.

As for living without a fridge, it's not a system I've mastered anywhere close to fully. I still am tempted to go out for sliced pizza way more often than I should. But it's also pushing me towards shelf-stable grains, potatoes, carrots, onion, etc. I have a balcony protected from flying critters who'd be interested in my supplies - for folks living in houses, I assume the same can be achieved by setting aside part of your basement as an unheated storage area.

Looking at how many mains have busted in texas, I am also thinking of the advantages of holing up in one's kitchen for the winter. This may not be a good solution for most, but as I live alone and my kitchen can fit a cot, I am thinking that sleeping there during the winter might have the advantages of doubling up keeping the area warm and protecting my pipes.

The way my apartment is, my heating and electricity will only go bust if the coal power plant goes bust. There were blackouts in the early years of the transition, but they've cracked it now: they incinerate trash (which they're not supposed to do) in the middle of the night. It does make the air crap. It also reduces the chance of blackouts as western europe isn't running out of trash any time soon.

This situation has me thinking of equipping my kitchen with a small wood stove. There is a chimney where your extractor hood would usually hook up, but if I put my cooking plate on the balcony, which can be aired out, there will be no need for a cooking stove and the chimney can be used for a heating stove. Still thinking this through and unsure how far I'll go with it given that I disapprove of burning shit for heating individually (power plant is a socialized solution; even though it makes the air crap, the air in areas of the city where individual houses are heated via wood stoves/furnaces is worse).

Also, shelling out the cash to replace my crooked, drafty, 70s windows might be a step in the right direction. Cash outlay now, resilience later. Or I can just do the usual weather proofing hacks - bubble wrap, curtains, caulking/tape, etcetera. Still undecided on this one.

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Jean
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Jean »

When my pipe Froze, i just melted snow. It takes a lot of energy, but stored water that freezes has to be melted too. I only melted for cooking and drinking. For washing, snow is fine as it is. Snow gives you thé cleanest butthole After pooping.

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Alphaville
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Alphaville »

ertyu wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:03 am
Also, shelling out the cash to replace my crooked, drafty, 70s windows might be a step in the right direction. Cash outlay now, resilience later. Or I can just do the usual weather proofing hacks - bubble wrap, curtains, caulking/tape, etcetera. Still undecided on this one.
thinking about your mold issue you you might to be able to open your window easily at regular intervals. yes there might be an energy loss but fresh air/fresh wild microbes have a positive effect on the apartment microbiome and one's own immune system. plus the ability to vent excess humidity is important. a taped up window might turn out unhealthy.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... tibiotics/

as for the dirty air from the city, this is not a cure-all but just minor remediation, but abundant house plants might be able to provide some changes in the indoor atmosphere, at least while the windows are closed.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/g ... urify-air/

these are not magic however, the nasa studies are for space travel, homes are not airtight.

also indoor air filters can get rid of particulates like soot.

so it might be a bit if a dance of opening windows when the outside air is good, then closing them when the air is bad...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... re-viruses

Jean wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:45 am
For washing, snow is fine as it is. Snow gives you thé cleanest butthole After pooping.
:lol: i should try that some day

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Thanks for all the posts. There are a lot of good ideas here. I think a propane heater is one component of what I'm looking for. I forgot that those exist. I think I will get one that can use both the one pound and 20 pound tanks. I already have a bunch of the one pound tanks and one 20 pound canister for my gas grill. Maybe I'll get one more 20 pounder. I know they won't run forever (a different house I lived in used propane to heat the whole house and it required a tank the size of a car out in the yard) but I could turn the heater on and off to let people warm up in one room. It sounds like two 20 pound tanks would last at least a couple of days depending on usage. Examples: https://www.mrheater.com/product/heaters/tank-tops.html

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Alphaville
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by Alphaville »

Gilberto de Piento wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:59 am
I think I will get one that can use both the one pound and 20 pound tanks.
yeah all you need is an adapter from the 20lb regulator to the 1lb intake.

https://www.amazon.com/GasOne-Propane-R ... 077SP5BJP/

that is a refiller. ofc with a hose it would be more versatile:

https://www.amazon.com/Char-Broil-4-Foo ... 000H25P42/

bonus meme: https://media.makeameme.org/created/i-s ... yzl80u.jpg :D

J_
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Re: Energy Prepping?

Post by J_ »

A lot of houses have solar-panels now (here in Europe, I do not know how much elsewhere). Most panels are not stand alone systems but are connected to the existing grid(s) via so called inverters. I have noticed, when there is a hiccup in electricity delivery in the grid, the solar panels-systems are not working to generate electricity for your home. Because those inverters need the alternating current (AC) of the grid to change the direct current (DC) of the solar-panels into the AC of the required voltage in ones home.

To overcome such a situation (for some time at least) I have made a (modest) system to have electricity for some basic functions in my house.
Those functions are: Heating in winter, cooling in the fridge on hot summer-days, light with led lamps, a portable 12v dab-radio, a portable 12v cd player, the router, a laptop and a smart phone.

In the Netherlands almost every dwelling is connected to a grid of natural gas, our natural gas central heating boiler is for hot water and for heating the house in wintery periods. But it cannot operate without electricity.
So I have made an off grid system that can deliver enough electricity to operate this boiler, and has enough power for the other functions I mentioned.

It exists of the following components: Two 100 W 12 Volt solar panels on the roof. A controller to regulate the solar current suitable for a 12 V (Lead, Gel, AGM, Lithium) battery. A 12 V battery with a capacity of 60 Ah (ampere-hour). And a (pure sinus) inverter to change the 12v DC into 220 AC for the central heating boiler or fridge or lap top. All the other functions use 12v, 18v or 5v DC, so there is as less loss in converting as possible. (All these components are easily available for campers and the like)

Electricity bookkeeping:
In: The solar panels give with three hours of sun (200 w x 3 /12=) 50 Ah per day

Out: The central-heating boiler can heat my house in two bouts of 1,5 hour per day using 250 W, the laptop 90 W for 4 hours, the dab-radio for 6 hours 20 W, the led lights, cd player and smart phone per day 40 W. Total 400 W /12 = 33 Ah per day.

Storage and reserve: For a day without sun the extra battery capacity battery can be used for 80% = 0,8 x 60 Ah= 42 Ah. If there are more sun-less days I will cut the hours of using those functions and I have another spare battery. Even in winter the average sun-hours per day are > 2 hours where I live.

For cooking I have a camping gas set. (the house kitchen is on electricity but uses too much power for my emergency system)

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