Portable saw mill + planing, thoughts?

[mooretrees]

We're (really my DH) are renovating a school bus to live in soon. The build is going slowly as DH is an amateur and he doesn't have a ton of time for the project. He's recently come across a local source of western bark beetle killed pines. They can have a lovely bluish tinge to the wood from a fungus that travels with the beetle.

Now that he's found this source of wood, he can buy them as whole trees or rough cut lumber. He's always wanted a portable saw mill and is sorta pushing to buy one now for this project. It doesn't seem too crazy expensive, $400 for the mill and accoutrements. And it's likely something we'd use for other projects, though nothing in the near term. It doesn't have a huge foot print, so storing it in the garage might not be a problem. The wood would be used as our ceiling for sure, and perhaps other areas too.

I have some hesitations about this purchase. My main concern is the extra time that would come from going in this direction. I assume that there would be a learning curve and not only would he have to learn how to use the saw mill, he'd be planing each piece. I really don't know how much time this would take. Is it likely to add a month to this project? Or a week or so at a normal pace (couple hours in the evening, 6+ hours most weekend days). Is the expense worth the new skill and craftsmanship?

We're doing this school bus renovation partly to try our hands at a different way of living, and also to learn more skills during the build. While I'm not doing much actual building, I'm learning too. I've created an arbitrary deadline to be living in the bus by Easter. I'm not sure how realistic it is, but that's what I'm lightly pushing. DH works better with a deadline as I've learned over the years .

Thoughts?

[theanimal]

Only $400? Is it a chainsaw attachment?

I don't have direct experience with them but one of my friends has a $30k one. He's a builder so he uses it all the time and finds it useful. From my understanding, the smaller it is the more of a hassle it will be as it just takes longer due to the lower power capacity. I don't think it will deliver you any significant cost savings so it'll just be a matter of deciding if you want a specific aesthetic and more control over what kind of wood you use.

[Hristo Botev]

I don’t have any personal experience with saw mills except to say my friend who builds custom furniture has one; he has an understanding with some of the local tree removal folks in town where they’ll bring him some of their better quality trees, and my buddy will pay something for certain kinds of trees. They mill a few times a year, usually having high school kids help out for the experience. The caveat: they are able to do this because they have a decent amount of land to store logs they haven’t milled yet and to cure (?) boards once milled. I don’t know any specifics about the mill, other than it’s big and expensive, and also requires use of a forklift.

[Laura Ingalls]

We had a black walnut tree blow down in a storm and DH took it to a local small business person with a mill. He charged DH $50. We ended up with half a pickup load of wood. I do not see the point of ownership of milling equipment unless you were a hermit in the woods or it was part of a business. Not for a bus conversation project, just my opinion.

[jacob]

It's almost surely a chainsaw mill. As far as I know, it will "use up" chainsaws rather fast. As the chain is "wide" it will also waste a lot of wood relative to better ($$$) methods, but maybe that's irrelevant when the wood is free. As price goes up, you get increased speed, capacity, and durability. The ones I see at the "professional woodworker" level are ~$5000. Those are more like "band saws on rails". These will waste less wood.

If he can already get it "rough cut" he doesn't need a mill. Rough cut means that the sides aren't planed yet. E.g. a rough cut 1x6 is actually 1 inch thick but when you buy it planed, it's only 3/4 inch. All you need here is a planer. They also come in different sizes---capacity and speed. The knives get dull and you'd have to sharpen them (requires a special jig, e.g. a Tormek system) or buy new ones (e.g. replaceable carbide tips). Starts at $400 for a portable 110V one.

To make the beams less wide, use a table saw. To make them thinner (resawing) use a bandsaw. The mill is only for turning logs into slabs.

The bigger problem is that what you (likely) have is green (fresh) wood. It needs to dry for 6-12+ months after being milled before it stabilizes. Otherwise there's a high risk of warping, shrinkage, or splitting/checks. Also, since it's going on a vehicle, I'd stick with light materials like plywood and pine which are cheap. Cheaper than 500+ lbs of power tools anyway. So cool as it is to mill your own oak or maple that stuff is heavy!

[mooretrees]

Thanks all for the responses.

Yes, it is a chainsaw driven mill. I think DH had included the price of a chain (though likely only one) in his estimate. We need to look into the place where we would get the wood to answer more questions. I assume if the wood has already cured as timber/logs, then we wouldn't need to wait the drying time after milling?

If we bought it, in the future we'd likely only be dealing with conifers for milling as we don't have a lot of hard woods around here.

We have space on our property, we have a huge driveway that is three cars wide. I'd thought that we'd collect the sawdust for use in our future composting toilet. Or as mulch around the ornamental garden. I don't know how he was planing on moving the wood around, besides both of us being there lifting and hucking it.

I assume if he goes this way, with or without the mill, that the interior is going to be rough sawn. And DH is absolutely that person who would love to run a mill.

I think if we can answer the primary questions about the state of the wood, it's a matter of not really price, but is this learning worth it at this moment in time? He's learning a ton on the is project so far. I can imagine that having a portable mill would open opportunities for some future business, but that's not a really well thought out plan at this point.

I think we can visit with some friends who have just started planing their rough cut wood and get some insight. I'll let you all know what happens!

[Riggerjack]

I agree with all of the above.

If the $400 sawmill is a chainsaw mill, with the chainsaw, that's a reasonable (good) price.

If it's just the pieces for a chainsaw mill, look to Amazon.

If the purpose of the mill is to make wood paneling for the bus, don't buy it. It will add design constraints and delays to the bus project that far outweighs the wood cost savings.

But if the purpose of the mill is to be driving around in the bus you converted yourselves, using wood from a tree you took yourselves, and milled into the paneling, and your dinnerware set, and this countertop... well, it's just one part of a bigger purchase set. And should be viewed from that perspective.

I would recommend watching some sawmilling youtube videos. Both to understand what milling entails, in space, waste, time and trouble. As amateurs, you place your own value on sawdust, kerf waste, noise, and time. Your needs are not likely a Sawyer's needs.

For a woodlot owner, there is a lot of good to be said for a chainsaw mill that can be used where the tree is felled, rather than bucking logs and moving them to the mill.

Slabs and cants are easier to move than logs. Less tearing up the land. Less washing logs before milling. The waste is in a good place to build soil.

That being said, it's still a lot of work. So it's on my list of things to do, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, myself.

[jacob]

I assume if the wood has already cured as timber/logs, then we wouldn't need to wait the drying time after milling?

Every time you remove wood from the side by planing or resawing there's a risk of dimensional change as the new surface gets exposed. I have no experience with logs, but if I plane even dryish boards and wait half a year, they won't be as straight as they once were unless they're stored properly spaced and weighted on a rack. Alternatively, they're assembled and the design is compatible with the movement. Wood is always working. The greener it is/the wider the humidity changes, the more it works.

I don't have any experience with timber->interior finish work, but the above would be the case for lumber->furniture.

[Toska2]

I would get a planer at that budget. I used mine for a multitude of reasons. Rough cut is abrasive on the hands and gloves. Rough cut used much more stain and collects dust. Rough cut that has been air dried has a year's worth of dust already on it. Multiple thicknesses of boards opens up more projects. Thinner boards weigh less in a mobile set up. Good symbiotic side hussle for friend with sawmill. The ability to buy boards is easier than to get them planed if desired. Planing produces more than enough sawdust. Time cost is probably 1/3 with reduced running costs. (I replaced my belsaw blades once. They are designed for 10,000+ board ft). Inexperienced bandsaw users make wavy boards (pushed too fast causing blade to avoid knots/chase grain), the planer fixes these defects.

I think thats enough.

Good luck on your projects.

[mooretrees]

Alternatively, they're assembled and the design is compatible with the movement. Wood is always working. The greener it is/the wider the humidity changes, the more it works.

I think that's what he is planning, designing the final product to allow movement/flex etc. Our friends who we found out about this wood source are planing their rough cut lumber now. DH thinks we can borrow their planers. We hope to see their set up later this week.

Thanks all for the thoughtful responses.

[George the original one]

Scope creep is always a hazard to completion of plans.

[mooretrees]

Ha, George! Exactly. We've been talking about getting the bus to a rough, glamping set up and then moving into it. I really don't want to be working on it for two years to make it the most perfect thing ever. And then move in and realize we'd like something different.

[Alphaville]

Scope creep is always a hazard to completion of plans.

pithy!

[Western Red Cedar]

I've been talking to my dad for a couple years now about a portable sawmill. It seems like the best option for complying with private timberland taxation reductions without paying 50%+ to a commercial logging operation to tear up the land. I wrote their timber management plan and have a pretty good understanding of the legal, economic, and environmental variables in small-scale, private logging operations.

We've explored the idea of purchasing a mid-range sawmill at 5-10 thousand, or hiring a professional to come on the property to cut some dimensional lumber for building projects. Hiring a professional sawyer would be fairly simple, but you need a place to store the wood and a clear idea what you want to build.

He was talking to a local Mennonite businessman a couple weeks ago and had the opportunity to see a chainsaw with attachments milling small DBH trees for beams, rafters, and other features. He has 3 or 4 different chainsaws and plans to convert two of them for milling purposes. I think one is for debarking trees and the other is for milling.

He has a quite a few large trees down on their property from a recent windstorm. He also has other stands that would benefit from selective thinning. The portable sawmill is definitely the most ERE compatible solution to their situation, particularly considering the current price of lumber. The low-end, chainsaw mill is a good opportunity for us to ease into this.

I'll keep folks posted on how things progress.

[Campitor]

Save your money and build your own chainsaw guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a47IL_Fxb8E - this is super cheap and easy to build.

I've resawn wood but only on a bandsaw or a 10" table saw. Beware of tension spring - use wedges often. Kickback is ugly when the wood suddenly pinches the blade on a table saw. Kickback can happen even with seasoned wood. I have used chainsaws but only to cut entire trees into firewood. Buy chainsaw pants - they cost less than an accidental amputation. Mask, eye and ear protection is a must - get a mask that can filter out the vapors produced by the gas/oil mixture. Nothing sucks more than breathing in chainsaw smoke and sawdust all day.

I would advise against using a chainsaw for your bus project since the finished wood will probably be so thick that it would add a lot of weight to the bus. The money you save on cutting your own wood with a chainsaw will be added back via the extra fuel cost of lugging around all that solid wood as paneling. I would go with a very thin plywood to reduce weight. Also solid wood will expand and contract with changes in humidity and temperature - plywood is dimensionally stable and will be less prone to popping and gaping. Good luck on the project.

[mooretrees]

Neat to see this thread bumped after a long silence. We didn't buy the saw mill, yet. It won't happen for this project, but it's on the table for a future project. @Camptior, thanks for the link, I'm going to watch with DH.

We're big on protection, I worked with chainsaws and chippers before and safety was a huge focus. Besides the future chainsaw mill, I'd like to get away from chainsaws. We're going to try felling and bucking wood with crosscut saws this year.

@WRC, I'll be curious to hear how your family milling project goes.

[Western Red Cedar]

@Campitor - Cool video. Thanks for sharing.

Here is a link to another story about a DIY build for a higher end sawmill. Even using beetle-infested spruce trees:

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/17/99691332 ... -their-own

@MT - I'd love to hear about the crosscut saw experiments if you move forward with that.

[Campitor]

Matthias Wendell on Youtube has plans for DIY bandsaws and also a video on how to convert it for resawing lumber. There's probably hundreds of videos on how to build a bandsaw sawmill on youtube. I would only build one if I had access to lots of free trees. I usually just buy wood new or recycle reclaimed wood that's easily resawn on a table saw and flattened on my portable jointer.

[Riggerjack]

We're going to try felling and bucking wood with crosscut saws this year.

Then now would be a good time to think about getting and learning to use a saw tooth set and file. They are cheap on eBay. Videos on YouTube. Back when these saws were used professionally, they were being sharpened each night. Lumber camps all had specialist sharpeners who worked nights readying saws and axes for the next day's work.

If one looks into antique woodworking tools, one finds many axes and adzes, etc. But old saws are rare, because they were made from the highest quality steels of the time, they were sharpened until unusable. Then the remnants rusted away, unlike the thicker tools. Antique saw sets are more common today, than antique saws.