Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Fixing and making things, what tools to get and what skills to learn, ...
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RoamingFrancis
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:43 am

Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Hey everyone,

I just had a couple questions for those of you who have been FI or semi ERE for a while. Namely, how do you go about finding guidance for new skills without spending a lot of money?

In my own case, I'd like to get more into music when I have the time and resources to do so, but I feel that I would need to do singing or instrument lessons with a teacher to make any real progress. I've traded German lessons for guitar lessons in the past, so skill exchange is an option, but I was wondering if anyone had found any other good solutions for frugal further education.

Thanks!

Peaceably,
RF

ertyu
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by ertyu »

Be in a lcol area. I promise you lessons in the midwest cost less than lessons in sf and lessons in thailand cost less than lessons in the midwest

UK-with-kids
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Location: Oxbridge, UK

Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by UK-with-kids »

Some things are really hard to learn from books and YouTube, even though there are some great YouTube videos out there. There's undoubtedly a superior benefit to personalised one to one tuition and feedback, and I'm sure music is a case in point. And then there's the motivation factor too - if you know you have a lesson coming up then for some people that helps keep them on track with practising. I had a conversation about that with my OH yesterday in the context of personal fitness and exercise. My conclusion was that paying for some kind of personal trainer, especially in a HCOL area as @ertyu mentioned above, is definitely not compatible with FI/ERE, and I should definitely learn to be self-sufficient. But if it came down to a choice between paying and not doing it at all then I would probably pay, because health is even more important than getting to FI/ERE as quickly as possible. The same argument could apply to learning music if its part of your well-being.

I think social capital is one answer to this conundrum. When you have a stressful job some distance away from home it doesn't lend itself to being rooted and connected in your local community, but if you can reduce your working hours as you get closer to FI/ERE that can change. Suddenly you have a lot more connections and opportunities and you can learn skills by volunteering or helping others out for example. Specifically for the fitness and exercise example, I think there are members of my OH's class who do the setting up and clearing away, and maybe some of the admin too. In return they seem to pay very little or nothing to join the classes.

ertyu
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by ertyu »

I know someone who works part time (2nd job) as a cleaner for a gym - which means access to the facilities every time they clean (off peak hours). but this isn't exactly relevant to music lessons. If you go the lcol route, I recommend the Ukraine and/or Russia and other such places (eastern europe/former republics). As a part of the socialist set-up, there are music/art high schools throughout the country - for example, my town of 100k (on a good day) has a state-sponsored opera. This infrastructure is still in place and as a result, you will find many people with formal musical training across eastern europe who are likely to charge significantly less than what you're likely to be charged in Western/Central Europe or in the US.

If you want extra coolness points, go to mongolia (also former ussr sphere of influence) and learn overtone singing because overtone signing is objectively the awesomest thing that can exist.

bostonimproper
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by bostonimproper »

Hire students looking for extra cash. My husband was able to get private lessons from a concert violinist for dirt cheap (as far as music lessons go) because she was still at Berklee.

Dream of Freedom
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Location: Nebraska, US

Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by Dream of Freedom »

I'm not against paying for a tutor though you might be able to do more yourself than you think. A tutor can help keep you motivated, provide a routine/structure, and provide feedback. As far as feedback is concerned you could try recording yourself and watching the video. I struggle staying motivated myself, but maybe you could try joining a group, band, club, forum, or something.

horsewoman
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by horsewoman »

My experience with the harp was that I used the first 3 or 4 months of lessons to relearn stuff I taught myself wrongly (danger of injury).
With singing, I had years of lessons under my before I first used YouTube, so I can't really assess if I can easily sift the good info from the bad due to my knowledge from the lessons or if it would have been similar without lessons.
When I started to learn double bass/bass I took lessons from the start (considering my problems with the harp years before), but I somehow felt that YouTube would have given me enough info. I gave up the lessons after 3 months. Again, this might be because my overall understanding of music is higher now than back when I started with the harp.

One thing I can recommend is looking up a YT teacher with many views and positive comments, using their videos and paying attention to even the slightest amount of discomfort/pain - this is a sign that you use too much tension in your muscles or do something wrong. In a hobby situation (provided you don't overdo it!) there should be no pain at all while playing an instrument or singing, so this is a good gauge.

UK-with-kids
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Location: Oxbridge, UK

Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by UK-with-kids »

If there are all these highly qualified teachers in LCOL countries I wonder how much you could learn with some lessons over Zoom. The reason I ask is that my daughter's school music lessons have been made remote due to Coronavirus and she still seems to be learning a lot.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by RoamingFrancis »

All great points, thank you.

@ertyu I was recently having a conversation with a Russian friend in which he was waxing nostalgic about the Soviet Union. Definitely wasn't perfect, but damn, they supported the arts more than the modern US does.

ertyu
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by ertyu »

They also supported science. There were centers where teachers worked with gifted and talented kids to prepare them for math and science olympiads; it was free to students and you got in by recommendation of your high school teacher. I went until grade 9, and I think this was instrumental in me winning a bunch of scholarships that allowed me to study abroad later on.

Scott 2
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by Scott 2 »

If the goal is mastery - pay for the best instructor you can find. Use that time judiciously, to guide your overall development. Be flexible on scheduling, an earnest student, easy to work with, etc. They may discount long term commitments.

Support it with self directed learning and community practice. Often, people waste their teacher's time on things that could be self directed.

Use growth to escalate the quality of community you can participate in. Eventually, it will replace the need for a teacher. See Jacob's discussion of sailing.


If you are just looking to have fun, do the thing with other people.

RoamingFrancis
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by RoamingFrancis »

@ertyu Sounds great. I fear my experience in the US education inhibited my learning rather than encouraged it, so maybe the Soviets were onto something. Da zdravstvuyet revoluciya :)

horsewoman
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by horsewoman »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:21 pm

If you are just looking to have fun, do the thing with other people.
In music, this is where I learned the most! I was very fortunate to be able to play in bands with people way over my level. I tried to make up my deficiencies with practicing a lot at home and with pulling my weight in other areas where I'm somewhat knowledgeable (public speaking, web stuff, Photoshop, book keeping... There is a lot more to being in a band than playing music!)

RoamingFrancis
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by RoamingFrancis »

Hmm, I guess I'll have to join/start a band...

white belt
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Re: Coaches, Private Lessons, and Shit

Post by white belt »

Check out my post in a previous thread about the topic of learning an instrument inexpensively: viewtopic.php?p=204706#p204706

TLDR: You don't need to have a teacher to make progress, however it may help accelerate the process

I think @Scott2 makes a good point about the different paths you can take depending on your goals.

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