video editing apple computer?

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5ts
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by 5ts »

Alphaville wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:20 pm
...i hear you there, and that’s been working with my ipad pro, but my reasoning on the desktop is if somehow the imac suffers harm (e.g. falls off the table and literally breaks*) i basically lose everything in it, whereas if the mini craps out i can get another little box for $800 and keep whatever monitor and external gpu functional.
You never move this thing my friend! How often did you move around your pc builds? You just plant it somewhere and leave it alone. And this is completely anecdotal, but I have never had any Apple hardware fail or known anyone who has had a failure. If it does fail it will probably do so within the first year, which is warrantied.

Ok, I will quit trashing the mac mini, but know that your choice suffers from the strong disapproval of a complete stranger on the internet

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

5ts wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:24 pm
You never move this thing my friend! How often did you move around your pc builds? You just plant it somewhere and leave it alone. And this is completely anecdotal, but I have never had any Apple hardware fail or known anyone who has had a failure. If it does fail it will probably do so within the first year, which is warrantied.
i no longer have a cat, but he used to smash things. once knocked a heavy cast iron pot from a counter (big dutch oven). made some serious dents! :D

however, the time i lost my raid 0 array because i set it on a flimsy laptop desk while working on a project in the middle of a move it was all my fault though :oops:

this is all to say that shit happens hahahaha. now i’m all belt and suspenders. if i get the imac, it comes with a new desk. *a good one*

5ts wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:24 pm
Ok, I will quit trashing the mac mini, but know that your choice suffers from the strong disapproval of a complete stranger on the internet
lololol! thanks a lot for that. it’s exactly what i posted this thread for.

jacob
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by jacob »

5ts wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:24 pm
And this is completely anecdotal, but I have never had any Apple hardware fail or known anyone who has had a failure. If it does fail it will probably do so within the first year, which is warrantied.
Ahh, you jinxed it. The HD in my first apple laptop failed one month short of the extended warranty (applecare?). They replaced it with a bigger one. I think the reason for the failure might have been that I was rucking the laptop back and forth for ~45 minutes a day in sleep mode. Apparently sleepmode does not lock the heads whereas a complete shutdown does. After getting the HD replaced, I just shut it down every time before walking around with it. I never had a problem since.

On a second note, BIL lost a macbook when stationed overseas. Most likely due to sand. Ditto webcam.

But I will say that apple computers are some of the longest lived computers I've had/have. If they'd maintain more backwards compatibility with their OSs, that'd be nice. To be fair, they're already doing a good job. I do have one laptop stuck at Yosemite so once new apps require something newer than Yosemite, I'm SOL, because the laptop does not support anything higher versions than Yosemite.

ertyu
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by ertyu »

Can one wipe the Apple OS and replace with Linux? Or add linux?

jacob
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by jacob »

@ertyu - Yes, I believe that is a thing.

5ts
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by 5ts »

jacob wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:38 am
If they'd maintain more backwards compatibility with their OSs, that'd be nice. To be fair, they're already doing a good job.
A legitimate complaint, especially since they have total control of the hardware and not a lot of models to support. I doubt it would be much trouble to keep those old machines up to date. No other conclusion than this is some sort of planned obsolescence. I would say use the thing for a decade and install linux when the software support dies.

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

jacob wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:38 am
AhI do have one laptop stuck at Yosemite so once new apps require something newer than Yosemite, I'm SOL, because the laptop does not support anything higher versions than Yosemite.
i’m stuck in high sierra and the degradation is there but ever so gentle. e.g. i can’t upgrade pages to collaborate via icloud, but it still works as standalone, and i get every security update.

imovie and fcpx still work.
ertyu wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:10 am
Can one wipe the Apple OS and replace with Linux? Or add linux?
macos is unix (as @bigato said, it derives from bsd). i’ve been thinking more, since this discussion went the linux way, to simply start using macos that way. if you’re interested that you can download a massive developer package they offer for free. i used to run the network throttler from that package with my rural satellite connection so that watching soccer games online would not kill my quota :lol:

anyway, once in a blue moon i’ll fire up the terminal window to perform some task or another, but i’ve never really dug beneath the surface because i don’t wanna wreck the baby.

nevertheless, maybe i could use an old model for practice... if it burns, it burns :twisted:
5ts wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:31 am
A legitimate complaint, especially since they have total control of the hardware and not a lot of models to support. I doubt it would be much trouble to keep those old machines up to date. No other conclusion than this is some sort of planned obsolescence. I would say use the thing for a decade and install linux when the software support dies.

switching from 32 to 64bit really hurt the backwards compatibility, as did switching to intel cpus before that. not so much on purpose as a pretty tall order with little benefit i think.

eta: but for some purposes you can multiboot older oses now i recall. i think i once kept running snow leopard on a separate partition just to run avid. not the most convenient but eh...

5ts
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by 5ts »

Alphaville wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:33 am
switching from 32 to 64bit really hurt the backwards compatibility, as did switching to intel cpus before that. not so much on purpose as a pretty tall order with little benefit i think.
That's right, that PowerPC to Intel was a major event. I had a Powerbook that faced the wrath of that transition. That thing was woefully under powered, so I'm glad they switched. PowerPC was a dead end architecture.

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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by jacob »

@5ts - Planned obsolescence is likely not really an issue among Apple's core demographic: People who are willing to pay money for a seamless system they rarely have to worry about. E.g. if new hardware every 3-4 years is considered the price of doing business or staying up with the latest phone fashions, Apple is the perfect solution. I know that Apple laptops---and the reason I initially bought one---became popular with the physics crowd in the early 2000s was because the OS was based on BSD and being familiar with unix/linux (and generally hating windows), physicists bought macbooks to get the *nix capability w/o having to struggle with device hell. We/these guys weren't looking for the cheapest or most powerful solution for the money. Paying $500 more for a *nix system we didn't have to worry about/spend time on was perfectly worth it.

It's when the $500 premium every 3-4 years becomes a point of pain (like with ERE, environmental, or philosophical concerns) that Apple becomes less appealing.

My guess is that supporting things like Yosemite is already stretching [backwards compatibility] for the core (ha!) Apple consumer. It's probably dialed in to keep people like us from bitching too much about having to get rid of perfectly good laptops. BTW my Apple laptop is from 2009 and for my intents and purposes, it's still as good as new with no apparent (to me) rot yet---I mainly use it for email and surfing. My previous one from 2004 suffered from the powerpc->intel transition.

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

my 2009 macmini still runs (and gets security updates!) but requires a mess of adapters to hook up to a modern monitor. has old wifi and bluetooth standards (maybe i wrecked the antenna?) and i forget what else. nevertheless i could repurpose it as a media box if i stored media (i don’t). and the same-age airport router and airport express still work (and get updates).

5ts
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by 5ts »

I'm sure that's right. I haven't seen any numbers, but I agree the core market for Apple stuff probably churns hardware every few years. But the hardware/software harmony of Apple or System76 or similar is a beautiful thing. I'm willing to pay for it now after going the other routes. I just keep them forever.

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

fcpx minimum system requirements:

macos 10.4.6 or later
8gb ram for 4k editing
*metal-capable graphics card* https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202239
1gb vram for 4k editing
4gb storage
...
vr headset etc etc...27” imac with radeon pro 580 or better recommended

https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/specs/



avid media composer first (have not tried this “first” version)

i5 macs not supported (disqualifies most 21.5” imacs, and basic macmini models, requiring +$200 core i7 upgrade) (disqualifies also basic 27” imacs!)
10.14.5 now qualified
16gb or more recommended
32gb or more when working with uhd (i do)
8gb minimum

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/artic ... quirements



so a core i7 plus16gb ram plus a metal card should cut it
but:
for future proofing with avid (maybe) all this pushes towards the top non-pro imac model plus $500 core i9 upgrade :shock:

~$2700 plus tax approaching $3k - solid 5 year lifespan?

32gb+ ram has to come aftermarket (crucial hi) looks ~$200 inc. tax



also the egpu for the mini looks a bit cumbersome after some research: enclosure, then card: plus, plus, plus...

-

applecare is $99 plus tax

5ts
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by 5ts »

For an 8 core i9 upgrade, I think you go way beyond 5 years and hit the limits in Apple OS updates. I see 10 years more likely. Video editing is one of the more intensive things you can do with a computer, so more power makes the difference. We're not talking web browsing and email here. I would definitely do the 8 GB to 40 GB aftermarket RAM upgrade. No brainer for video.

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

5ts wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:53 pm
For an 8 core i9 upgrade, I think you go way beyond 5 years and hit the limits in Apple OS updates. I see 10 years more likely. Video editing is one of the more intensive things you can do with a computer, so more power makes the difference. We're not talking web browsing and email here. I would definitely do the 8 GB to 40 GB aftermarket RAM upgrade. No brainer for video.
add to final cost: new ups/voltage regulator (which i don’t use for laptop)

the diderot effect! :(

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait...


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/tech ... eakup.html

:?

it’s not gonna last 10 years now :lol:

5ts
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by 5ts »

ABORT

Probably a good move for Apple to move to ARM, but I think the Intel machine longevity just got cut in half, if not worse.

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

5ts wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:42 pm
ABORT

Probably a good move for Apple to move to ARM, but I think the Intel machine longevity just got cut in half, if not worse.
yeah, i’m furiously backpedaling now

maybe i’ll get something used and cheap just to tide me over :P

Cheepnis
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Cheepnis »

@5ts, what do you mean by intel machine longevity? Do you mean you suspect Apple's microprocessors won't have the longevity of Intel's?

---

My Macbook Pro is 10 years old next month. It's worked great its whole life with minimal maintenance outside standard built-in first-aid. Even rocking the original battery, though it only lasts about an hour unplugged anymore. These last couple months it's been getting worse and worse and Etrecheck tells me my hard drive is failing. So it looks like I'll be in the market for another computer sooner rather than later.

In light of that circumstance I was going to start a thread similar to this. I know that the basic package 21.5" iMac pro will be a supremely powerful machine compared to my old Macbook. However I do want to have a product that could last another ten years so I'm unsure if I should/need get a step or two above the basic package to attain that goal.

I don't know anything about computer specs/hardware and won't be using my new machine for any heavy lifting. 12-core 5 dimensional interstellar i42 means nothing to me and the complexity of the processor world seems high seeing as the GHz rating and number of "cores" don't always ascend with the price, which doesn't make any sense in my primitive monkey brain. Also: wth if "Turbo Boost"? Sounds like something lifted from a Fast & Furious movie.

Basically what I want to know is whether or not the question of longevity for home-use relies more on hardware not failing or on hardware remaining capable of handling new technology for 10 years. Assuming no hardware failures is one of these more likely to stand the test of time?

2.3GHz Dual-Core Processor with Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz 1TB Storage - $1099

3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor 1TB Storage Retina 4K Display - $1299

3.0GHz 6-Core Processor with Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz 1TB Storage Retina 4K Display - $1499

Also: was looking into going the refurbished route, but the prices really don't seem a whole ton less that new unless you go back to '12 or '13 anyway. Anybody of thoughts or suggestions on that topic? Reputable sellers? Good/bad experiences?

Alphaville
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Alphaville »

Cheepnis wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:43 am
@5ts, what do you mean by intel machine longevity? Do you mean you suspect Apple's microprocessors won't have the longevity of Intel's?
i know this question wasn’t for me, but since macs are switching processors, it’s likely going to be like when mac moved from powerpc to x86:

the new os won’t be backwards compatible, app development will cease, and you’ll require new everthing sooner rather than later.

it’s a good strategic move for competitiveness, since intel can’t be relied upon like before, but in the short term some consumers might feel cheated.

Cheepnis
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Re: video editing apple computer?

Post by Cheepnis »

Alphaville wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:50 am
the new os won’t be backwards compatible, app development will cease
Forgive my ignorance... Does that also mean apps won't work with the new os/mps until their developers adapt them/rewrite them?

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