Rob is growing and foraging 100% of his food for a year

[C40]

I like this guy. I follow him on Instagram. He's a pretty good example of someone sharing better ways to live through an EXAMPLE, instead of negatively focused complaining or urging.

He used to live somewhere in California. There was a video about his home setup. We had a discussion here on the forum about it - including a debate on how successful he could or couldn't have been in bringing women home to the little shack he lived in.

[7Wannabe5]

Yeah, I like him too. My permaculture partner reminds me of this guy mixed with somebody Gabrielle Union might date.

[Frita]

It looks like he can cook some amazingly fresh and visually-appealing food. That could be a chick magnet (said while spouse is making pizza, smells wonderful).

[Jin+Guice]

Haha, if y'all don't understand that, no matter his house size, this guy forages all the women he can handle...

[Mister Imperceptible]

Why Growing Food Is The Single Most Impactful Thing You Can Do In A Corrupt Political System

https://realfarmacy.com/growing-food-rigged-system/

[Kylinne]

That looks super cool on the food part of it; I'll keep the wonders of modern pharmaceuticals when necessary. I keep wanting to grow edible things and keep putting it lower on the priority list than decluttering and remodeling and cooking experiments and lowering the water bill. My roommate, though, has been using free seeds, scavenged cuttings from the neighborhood, and food scraps (carrot and onion tops, celery bottoms, etc.) to create a garden in the backyard; some of the vegetables grow okay, but the non-edible seeds and cuttings do better. My contribution is that I've been composting for years; it mostly goes to feed the squirrels, raccoons, possums, skunks, and cats in the neighborhood, but he actually uses it to grow stuff. I, on the other hand, have 4 fruit trees in the front yard that are about 2-3 feet tall, and have been for the entire 4ish years I've had them planted there. I did randomly get some cherry tomatoes that decided to grow in the backyard with no input from me (or him; I think he attempted to relocate them when he moved back in and they didn't survive; I'm sad). They were a tasty addition to salads. The neighbor's lemon tree grows into my yard, so there are always fresh lemons when I want them, and some of the sages in the front yard are edible as well. I also have allllll of the oxalis I could ever want whenever it rains, a good selection of dandelions, and some of the neighbor's cactus fruit and leaves. Not a huge fan of either of the greens, though, except in small quantities - and the thorns are a pain on the cactus fruit, but they're delicious if I can get to them before the squirrels or the gardeners do. Haven't quite got the hang of cooking the fresh cactus leaves, but I know they go great in burritos per one of the local Mexican joints.

https://realfarmacy.com/growing-food-rigged-system/

Rob Finley is in one of the videos on that page, and dude does super cool stuff from what I've seen. Meant to contact him a few years ago to see if I could help since he's local, but completely forgot. Good reminder to go look into that, or at least donate to the project.

http://ronfinley.com/

[Jin+Guice]

I'm surprised this didn't get more traction. This dude spends less money than Jacob, lived in a really tiny house and grew all of his own food for a year. He did all of this by leveraging social capital, which frankly I think is the biggest component missing from ERE.

Do y'all think this dudes model is robust? What would happen if everyone lived in that small of a house? Could everyone grow their own food locally or does it take too much land (he grows it by convincing 20 neighbors to let him install gardens in their lawn, which I presume they can eat from too).

[Frita]

I agree with the social capital observation, J+G. Do you think it’s in part because Rob Greenfield minimizes his interaction with money, his more extroverted personality, and/or his idealism?

He has vowed (for intervals lasting 4 years, the term of a US president) not to accumulate wealth beyond $5,000 or acquire beyond that amount of possessions. He does not have health insurance, although he eats well and is in great shape. He is sort of a man of contrasts though. For example, he dumpsterdives but has lots of swank gear like all Patagonia clothing (donated in exchange for publicity/review). At the end of the year, he donated his Florida tiny house, gave away most possessions, and is off to the next adventure. Is this a person at or approaching Wheaten Level 8: Chop Wood, Carry Water? If so, that could explain the lack of chatter on the post.

https://robgreenfield.tv/blog/

[7Wannabe5]

I wanted to note that IMO he is definitely the real deal. I don't think he is a Rational. Likely an Idealist, as Frita noted, so his records posted on his blog/website are not like unto as spreadsheet intense as those most people post here But, his list of edible he foraged during the months he spent in Great Lakes region almost exactly corresponds with my list from my Great Lakes project. Also, he is very upfront about his difficulties with acquiring enough calories, protein, and fat in his diet. I think a pretty standard Advanced Beginner Foraging thought would be something like "Why do people pay money for greens at the grocery store?" because edible greens/herbs are pretty easy to come by, although somewhat more difficult to store if you attempt to stick to Great Lakes region, rather than doing seasonal migration to Florida. So, like most human foragers/subsistence farmers anywhere, he was primarily reliant on a minority of the vast variety of foods (many more than even most devoted urban foodie) he did include for most of his core nutritional needs. He also was forthright in noting that he had to compromise on his previous level of minimalism of possessions in order to meet this challenge. For instance, he had to make use of a chest freezer and some mechanized blending/chopping tools.

The weird/interesting thing to observe about the use of a blender towards this challenge, or in the more widely popular green-smoothie lifestyle, is that the energy powering the blender is providing/saving calories towards human nutrition, because it is doing work that your own muscles and teeth would have to do otherwise. IOW, a food that would be calorie-negative for human consumption in the wild can be rendered slightly calorie positive by grinding it up in a blender rather than on your chopping block then in your mouth then in your gut. If you were then to ferment the results, you would be halfway to externalizing cow stomach. Related note would be that it is next to impossible for human to actually survive on all raw food in the wild. It is quite likely that our ancestral line was already using fire even before two of their 24 chromosomes fused together to create the variety of very intelligent species* of homo sapiens.

*Of course, not really proper to describe the Neanderthals, Denisovans, etc. as separate species since "we" interbred with them repeatedly and successfully, and they had the fused-to-23 chromosomes which is the only likely differentiating feature "we" possess from the rest of the animal kingdom towards self-consciousness.

Also wanted to note that if you skim the photo collection on his website, it very quickly becomes apparent that he has the opposite of difficulty in attracting attractive females.

@J&G:

He offers disclaimer which suggests that he does not believe his plan/diet would be robust in the sense of "everyone could do it exactly as he did it." Of course, this is because larger problem is that intelligent design requires intelligence, and everybody copying the same plan is not intelligent. You have to note the difference between anybody/everybody having the capability to build a given design from a given set of Legos vs. every kid in the classroom being able to build the same design given only one set of Legos. Either somebody has to take it up a level and start stamping out some more of Piece 92 or everybody has to get damn creative with whatever handful the teacher dumped on their desk.

[jacob]

I'm surprised this didn't get more traction. This dude spends less money than Jacob, lived in a really tiny house and grew all of his own food for a year. He did all of this by leveraging social capital, which frankly I think is the biggest component missing from ERE.

Well, TBH, this [thread/OP] didn't catch my interest until I saw the underlined comment. I consider one-year experiments somewhat of a turn-off---anyone can do anything for 365 days---and foraging is not high on my list of interests. However, reading through the site, there's so much more going on. I find him inspirational. I guess that must make him Wheaton 8, no? I gotta read through the rest of the site now, but initial observations remind me of some combination of Dan Price, Mark Boyle, and Ran Prieur.

[Lemur]

Nice. I discovered Rob Greenfield's work on Youtube a few months ago. I'm surprised I didn't crosscheck this forum already to see if there was previous discussion. He has been a big inspiration for me for my own garden at home...as well as the "food forest guy" if you search him (can't think of his name off the top of my head). The latter I don't think is a ERE type, but definitely is a system thinker.

I'm surprised to read that he does not carry health insurance. That makes sense coming from his personality but that is quite a 'out of the box' decision. I've been reading too much healthcare debt horror stories lately though.

[Frita]

@Lemur
Having health insurance, often ultra-expensive with low actual benefits, doesn’t equate to being healthy. From what I read, Rob Greenfield opted out as he doesn’t believe in the system and chooses not to be a hypocrite by being part of it.

[Lemur]

@Lemur
Having health insurance, often ultra-expensive with low actual benefits, doesn’t equate to being healthy. From what I read, Rob Greenfield opted out as he doesn’t believe in the system and chooses not to be a hypocrite by being part of it.

In Bold - I never said that...but yes, I agree, he sure does have conviction; an admirable quality. I don't like the current system either...but not nearly enough to opt-out of it. Healthy or not, random events do happen...I'm sure we could play the what if game for a long-time (suppose Rob is walking around enjoying his day, trips over a rock, breaks his femur or something and immediately needs to go to ER or something) but I'm not sure what the point of that discussion would be. Ultimately, its certainly not a decision I would make and one that I would not recommend to others. Far too much risk.

[7Wannabe5]

Often it is the case that having more assets leads to a vicious circle of risk aversion. For instance, my very wealthy friend who won't buy a farm like he remembers fondly from his childhood because "too much liability."

[Lemur]

Often it is the case that having more assets leads to a vicious circle of risk aversion. For instance, my very wealthy friend who won't buy a farm like he remembers fondly from his childhood because "too much liability."

Interesting point....because Rob doesn't have a lot of assets to begin with but instead relies solely on his system, skills, social capital...then what really would be the need for health insurance? I.E. you're coming from a place where there is not a lot to lose. It makes sense from that perspective. OTOH, hospitals have a legal obligation to cover people who end up in the ER, right? So...if Rob breaks his leg is his plan to opt out of going to ER as well or will he go to ER anyway knowing he can't cover the debt? And if he can't pay the debt, then is it right that others have to pick up the tab (I guess through taxes and what/not or the hospital just eats the debt)? I'm curious how this situation is handled...

[jacob]

@7wb5 - It could also be that you're observing (survivor bias sampling) a risk averse population who got rich in the long run. In other words, risk is perceived relative to assets and more assets allow for bigger bets. Yet, if one keeps betting everything, the outcome is a Gaussian centered on zero. Cf the risk-averse bettor who is a Gaussian slowly drifting higher while spreading out less. These are different animals.

If you still like to nerd around with data stuff, this is described by the Black Scholes model.

[7Wannabe5]

@Lemur: I don't know what Rob's plan is, but people with less conviction but just as few funds will generally be offered a monthly payment plan stretched out over long period. What I might do if I was as socially skilled as him would be to keep knocking against the bureaucratic power structure until some sort of mutually beneficial barter arrangement could be devised. For obvious instance, he could provide fresh organically grown vegetables to hospital kitchen.

@jacob:

Yeah, I had that thought myself. However, I would note that he was very excited one day when I was somewhat recklessly bidding on a decrepit property in the city. He probably would have even covered me, although I doubt he would have made a similar risk bet for himself.

[Frita]

@Lemur
I wasn’t saying that you equate being insured with health; rather, that seems to be a shift in the US. Depending on the state and one’s philosophy, self-insurance can be cost-effective. Like Rob, we no longer participate in the health insurance business.

Added for clarification: We do have auto, house, and umbrella insurance. I am not saying that I recommend other people drop their health insurance unless after careful consideration, they decide that is what’s best.

[Jin+Guice]

@Frita: I think he has high social capital because of his personality and extroversion. He was a successful salesperson who ran his own marketing firm. I think the idealism helps too. He also just seems so fucking excited about everything he's doing.

I'm not sure dumpsterdiving and having swank gear (I think the implication is it's not from the dumpster?) is a contrast. I do see how it could be viewed as one. Is his extreme environmentalism at odds with having some new stuff? Maybe. Probably.

I would compare this to investing. At a certain point investing in corporate America/ Globe Corp. is at odds with extreme environmentalism. I think most of us agree it's at a much later point than your average environmentalist, but still...

I'm not sure if he says it about the new gear, but in a video about his house he does call himself out for using propane, which is "probably from fracking" which he does not support. I like that he admits he's not perfect too.


@7w5: Haha, I think most plans of this nature suffer from that problem when it comes to robustness.

@jacob: It's hard to beat you at your own game, but this is partially because you made the rules. One of your rules is that the life must "look normal to outsiders." I think Rob Greenfield could pass this, but his life wouldn't look as normal as yours. I *think* the tiny house he used for this food challenge was actually in someone else's backyard, however, I *think* that his San Diego tiny house was on his own property? If an RV counts as normal a tiny house does too?

You could also claim he's cheating because he is leveraging social capital, which some people feel is mooching. I really feel like he's dedicated himself to not mooching, but it still bends the rules.

I agree that challenges are kind of lame, though good for publicity. Adhering to predetermined absurd rules is probably not the best life system, but it can lead to some interesting insights if you are really dedicated.

I agree that this guy is a candidate for Wheaton level 8, which is why I was surprised he only had a 6 post thread with no fanfare.


I think he is unique in his high level of social capital and, I'm not quite sure how to say this, but, extreme personability coupled with not being a douche. I haven't seen the marriage of those two qualities in a FIRE or environmental "personality."

I also think he speaks to the "city problem" when it comes to extreme environmentalism and extreme frugality. He's operated in tiny homes in two different cities with seemingly no problem from the authorities.

[theanimal]

I don't think his use of social capital should be seen as cheating. The ability to share with others and maintain a beneficial relationship for both sides is not easy but can be done without feeling or being seen as a mooch. I believe I've said it before, but social capital can be a major base of one's ERE strategy yet it is the least discussed on here. Understandably so as most people on this board (including its dear leader JLF) identify as strong introverts. But perhaps something for others to look into. Learning to interact with others and build social capital is a skill in and of itself.