Preppers?

What skills to learn, what tools to get
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TheWanderingScholar
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Re: Preppers?

Post by TheWanderingScholar » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:47 pm

@Jin+Guice

Another thing to consider when hunkering down is ability to adapt to a new culture and lack of social ties in an area. Living in an area that has many neighbors you are well connected with in general, as opposed to a foreign country, where will local connections can exist, finding work in the area requires more effort as the locals will prefer to higher locals people who speak the language.

It is a main issue I have right now (Not a prepper and considering America going through SHTF scenario); the job market for GIS Specialist is highly limited and requires specialization skills which I do not have, with language being also a main barrier, which I am trying to get through.

plow_2
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Re: Preppers?

Post by plow_2 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:52 pm

https://www.naturalnews.com/040249_Bosn ... egies.html

A good article about surviving in bosnia.

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Riggerjack
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Re: Preppers?

Post by Riggerjack » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:37 pm

Though I've never experienced a catastrophic disaster, I find when I'm worried about a situation and thus prepare heavily for it, something I didn't think of usually goes wrong. How do y'all prepare for events that you've never experienced? How do you decide which of these scenarios are likely?
There are Wheaton levels to all things, prepping included. What many would call extreme prepping, others would refer to as getting ready for winter. When one gets back in the sticks, one will find that most people are comfortable with their water supply, garden, fences, and guns. People in the sticks are really only worried about the ravening hordes of city people, with no supplies or skills.

I expect a pandemic. It's just too likely to not happen. So I have an Ebola drawer. Bleach, disposable gloves, ethanol, and surgical masks. Enough to last a few months. After that, systems will be back in order, or probably won't ever be. Either way, a few more months of supplies won't make much difference. These are all things I use regularly, so I only have more stock than normal of each, and the drawer is where stock is stored.

Ego used to come here to warn us of the dangers of fear. He was concerned that people preparing would lead to a general culture of fear, and that this fearful culture would not help the weak, etc. Maybe he's right.

I will ask again, after. Strange how so few people who have been through an emergency seem worried about over preparations...

Jean
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Re: Preppers?

Post by Jean » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:28 am

To me, it's more out of responsability than fear, I don't want to burden my neighbours.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Preppers?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:24 am

@plow_2:

Good article. Supports my theory that one of the reasons nobody messes with me when I wander around the rough neighborhood where I teach is that I look like I could be the wife of one of the middle-aged male Bosnian refugee immigrants. Also confirms my theory that a half dozen breeding meat rabbits would be one of the most valuable assets to hold in SHTF situation.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: Preppers?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:35 am

The Bosnia article mentioned first aid and Kerosene making as tradable skills in a civil unrest situation. I'd be interested in a longer list of similar skill examples. Preferably ones that no one else in the neighborhood is likely to have thought of beforehand. (i.e., not hunting and cooking.)

I noticed there has been very little discussion of gold here. Goldbugs often argue that its main function is to hedge this sort of catastrophe, but it seems like people will be more interested in firewood and canned tuna than shiny metal.

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Preppers?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:58 am

I think gold could be very useful for trading at the boundaries of the SHTF zone. Some other useful skills might be ability to repair or hack any kind of communications network, ability to repair/construct clean water system, and Taleb wrote about constantly reading because having to hide-out from danger in his Beirut boyhood, so I guess I could be the clan-gang librarian.

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TheWanderingScholar
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Re: Preppers?

Post by TheWanderingScholar » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:07 pm

@ThisDinosaur

It really is weird when you think about it.

I just hope in a SHTF situation Urban Planners would be still useful!

Jean
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Re: Preppers?

Post by Jean » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:17 pm

A medicine and a material degree might make my village a regional powerhouse when combined with farming and metalworkshops.

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Bankai
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Re: Preppers?

Post by Bankai » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:11 pm

It looks to me like modern preppers are focusing all their attention and resources on what I see as the 4th line of defence.

The first line is living in historically stable and orderly area, under preferably capitalistic, democratic system. Ideally in a region that hasn't seen a war in 100-300 years (i.e. Canada - yes, Balkans - not so much).

The second line is being prepared to move out of the area/country at very short notice. This would include having a foreign passport, bank account and some assets abroad. as well as having the right mindset so when the time comes, one is able to make the right decision, leave all the stuff behind and move while there's still time.

The third line is community - having a large network of family, friends and neighbours where one lives. Ideally an interdependent community with complementary skills.

And only then a stockpile of ammo, food, medicins etc. (fourth line).

Obviously, in most situations, lvl4 is all you really need (i.e. a week-long power outage). But when s-really-htf (like there's a war and the enemy army is advancing towards your city and there are all those videos of war crimes on youtube), it's useless. Moving (fleeing) is your best chance.

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Re: Preppers?

Post by jacob » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:15 pm

Most modern preppers are maybe not so modern. The idea of hunkering down with supplies was designed for and is best suited for nuclear war scenarios in which everyone hides from the radiation and then comes out after it [literally] blows over. Modern prepping (of the supplies variety) is more of a culture conflated with gun culture + various outdoorsy stuff.

The other kind of modern prepping is of the social variety. Here I'm thinking of Transition Towns and Permaculture and maybe even something like ERE. These are more of a peak oil/resource focused solution focused on long descent outcomes.

I'm not aware of anyone preparing to be a refuge. However, there are plenty of modern examples to learn from here. Works for war and climate change. Flag theory comes to mind.

Seppia
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Re: Preppers?

Post by Seppia » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:16 am

@Bankai I agree completely.
In the last 5 years I've been focusing on the second line of defense, I think a flag theory approach works great.
If all goes according to plan in a year or two I should have bank accounts in four countries / three different continents. All except my main one have limited amounts and are 100% cash for tax purposes (holding stocks/assets abroad is a big complication for individuals who are not of very high net worth).

One downside of having lived left and right is that I lack on the third line of defense.
I have very good friends across the globe (big positive) but the network in the area where we live is limited.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: Preppers?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:43 am

https://www.wired.com/story/puerto-rico ... -recovery/

An article about how Puerto Ricans are living without electricity, running water, or public utilities for a year. A useful portrait of a realistic long term collapse scenario.

After reading this, some of the prepper skills it brings to mind include how to desalinate water. Another is using fermentation instead of refrigeration + cooking for food prep and storage.

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Re: Preppers?

Post by jacob » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:01 pm

It's kinda weird seeing articles like this posted in Wired being as it is the epicenter of the religion of techno-optimism. However, I think stories like that, where the federal center of power ignores/denies the perimeter is rather illustrative of the decline. It's quite in concordance which how these things work out historically. The official story will be that nobody died. Trump says 5-15 people died (not 3000+) otherwise it's #fakenews and enough believe that, so everything is officially alright. Meanwhile people stay in place and fend for themselves or they left. You're either largely forgotten or you become a refuge (PR => Florida ... not the best choice) insofar you were smart enough to have an exit plan. Or, for those who have the power to thrive in chaos, there might even be some profit opportunities: https://www.gq.com/story/how-puerto-ric ... super-rich

Those who were really smart should/would have left when the local finances crashed. That marked when centralized power stopped paying attention.

Also see Flint, Michigan et al.

jennypenny
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Re: Preppers?

Post by jennypenny » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:40 pm

A prolonged grid-down situation is what I fear most. It's shocking to me how little violence there's been on PR because the northeast would be burning after a month without power.

They should put Bracero in charge of Prepa.

pammys
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Re: Preppers?

Post by pammys » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:49 am

I'm going after a bugging in situation along the lines of (wanna be) permaculture.

As I live in tornado country, will plan on short term survival, naturally, having enough to weather the disruption. This will be a root cellar that doubles as a hiding place. Until we get that dug, grandma lives in an underground house somewhat close by. The root cellar will also be where I stock up on future gardening, but will double for food preservation if collapse happens and we don't have power for fridge/freezer type of scenario. Will be hunting down a propane powered stove, fridge, and heating for short term power outages, along with a big propane tank, but will also set up outdoor cooking for longer term solutions, should we have no power for a long time. Short term I have lots of camping gear that can get us by for cooking, heating, lighting, shower, etc. Short term, also have an advantage of living outside a smallish city, an hour and half from a major city, my supplies are with me, I've already bugged out in place. Will have cash on site for short term. Will aim for at least a 3 month food and supplies prep in storage for short term before I start working towards long term.

Long term, gardening, hunting, preserving, seeds (don't forget about seeds!), wood stove with plenty of trees, wild game on land, passive solar set up to help with heating/cooling, rainwater catchments, small livestock, and eventually solar/wind on a small scale with less dependence on power. As we are just starting to work on our place (are literally moving the house out there tomorrow) will slowly acquire low tech equipment to use on the land. We have well water that runs on electric so will have to plan on how to work that out. As we have 2 grown children, one with a family, am also trying to plan ahead as if this is their place to bug out to, and will plan accordingly.

If SHTF tomorrow, I'm screwed. Lots and lots to work on. The above isn't just about prepping for an unknown scenario that may or may not happen, but also will help towards FI if nothing happens, as most of the above also go along the lines of living as cheaply as possible to be able to save more. So if the world goes on as business as usual, the above will still be working towards the goals of ER.

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Re: Preppers?

Post by jennypenny » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:03 am

I watched Apollo 13 again recently. I got stuck on that scene where they don't have the right air filter and have to bodge something. My preps aren't so disorganized that I don't have the correct equipment, but I kept thinking about how their problem was that the two ships didn't have interchangeable parts.

Our family is like that-- we're all different ships. We all use different devices that require different chargers, we all take different meds, we are all on different diets ... we even use 5 different kinds of deodorant. I know that sounds silly, but it makes prepping for a group a much bigger task when everyone has to have their own set of preps. I got into the habit when the kids were little and everyone was at a different stage with different needs, but that's no longer the case. As I walked around the house and looked through the prep area, I realized how difficult I was making things by mentally assigning each person their own preps.

So now I'm on a quest to reduce the variety (wd?) of products to make prepping easier. I"m mean really ... do we all need to wear different brands of socks and use different kinds of toothbrushes? I'm assuming that it will also be a more frugal approach to everyday living, which is why I'm mentioning it.

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Re: Preppers?

Post by prognastat » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:13 pm

jennypenny wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:03 am
we even use 5 different kinds of deodorant.
At least during the apocalypse no one will care what deodorant you wear...as long as it isn't axe.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: Preppers?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:49 am

The CSM and the LM were built by different aerospace contractors. They duplicated efforts by designing and building their own CO2 scrubbers. Standard government beurocracy shenanigans.

That sort of problem wouldn't necessarily happen if there was one central planner, which is what you are, jennypenny. If the apocalypse hits and your family is huddled in your bunker, are they really going to complain that your stockpile of deodarant and canned food was all *your* preferences? Beggars cant be choosers. They can stock their own bunker if its a problem for them.

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Re: Preppers?

Post by jacob » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:59 am

The standard problem with large defense/aerospace projects is that it turns into a pork-festival designed to "create jobs" in as many states as possible. Naturally, this does not always work because sometimes goals are conflicting and sometimes one hand does not know what the other hand is doing. Mars missions have crashed over trivial matters like unit conversions between different components. There are something like 46 states and 10 different countries involved in building the F-35 (JSF) for example https://www.businessinsider.com/this-ma ... sco-2014-8 ... probably the most extreme expression of Pin Factory specialization yet.

Part of what makes SpaceX so efficient is that they do a lot of things in-house. This also means that the total operation is more complex.

There's a lesson in here which applies to this: viewtopic.php?p=174637#p174637

PS: Speaking of pork, 5500 pigs drowned in NC due to Florence. Also, speaking about the F35, some 3+ million turkeys/chickens also drowned.

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