dating ERE

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Spartan_Warrior
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Post by Spartan_Warrior »

@joer1212: Frankly, I agree. Not to be sexist or anything, but I'd say the female population age 18-35 is the demographic most "programmed" to adhere to consumerism, advertising, and fitting into cultural norms at all cost.
Here's an article I just saw on yahoo:
http://shopping.yahoo.com/blogs/digital ... 44257.html
"I love an iPhone on a man." Pretty much sums it up. Because the most important quality in a person is not their personality, skills, goals, or hobbies, it's what type of mass produced Chinese merchandise they carry around...
Not that there aren't exceptions. But exceptions are rare enough. When you are dealing with a numbers game like dating, where you can expect maybe a 10% response rate already... yeah, the chances of finding an ERE compatible mate look very slim.
@LiquidSapphire: "My first date with my boyfriend, he paid for lunch out. I think it was $25."
Yes... now multiply that times the six or seven other first dates he probably went on before you two clicked (unless he was extremely lucky.) So from an ERE budgeting perspective, this isn't $25 for a first date. It's $200 for several first dates, of which the majority will be there for a free meal, won't be compatible, or will otherwise never be heard from again. My personal "miscellaneous" spending budget is $100/mo and it's usually exhausted on things I actually need.
Just sayin.
I guess my point is, "traditional" dating with an ERE mindset sounds like trying to find a needle in a haystack... with a five minute time limit, and every time the clock resets you get to pay $25 for another chance.
Maybe I'm just bitter.


LiquidSapphire
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Post by LiquidSapphire »

@ Spartan Warrior -

True, I see your point, but I also would have been OK with a coffee date ($10 or less) or even something goofy like bingo ($5 each). It was January so lots of free outdoor activities were pretty much unenjoyable, but free museum days happen about once a month, etc. It can be dangerous though, on one hand, if a girl judges you for that, she probably isn't for you, but on the other hand, it does lead you to wonder about just how freakin' cheap that person is, and are they going to cheap out in other areas? (giving you their free time, not caring about you, etc). It is definitely hard to find someone else following the ERE lifestyle. I sure haven't, but thankful I found someone who isn't at least going to get in the way of my efforts too much, even if he doesn't end up helping too much.


JohnnyH
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Post by JohnnyH »

I have to drive 50+ miles to go on a date (nearest town with pop > 5k)... It's great. :D


George the original one
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Post by George the original one »

Aw come on guys... think outside the box of traditional dating!


J.O.S.H.
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Post by J.O.S.H. »

Let me say this: back when I was in college, the ladies paid for every date. Period. It couldn't work any other way, because I had literally no money. I had a job at the time, but it was depositing money into an old custodial bank account I couldn't get access to because my parents left the state and I was still a minor. So, I would stock up on food at the cafeteria (my meal plan had only two meals a day, which led to a lot of hamburgers wrapped in napkins), and all my dates cost zero dollars. I had $200 for my entire last year, which dried up after a couple months.
It was pretty great.
Despite what you may think, there were still weeks where I went out with 3 or 4 girls (although my intense coursework and job made those a little rarer than I'd have liked). I think this problem you guys are having isn't so much a money problem as it is a insufficient awesomeness problem. :)
In all seriousness, my relative success was due to the fact that I studied conversation as an art form and competitively met new people. Standards were high, failure was the rule. But if I didn't I would have been a weirdo poindexter for my entire life, so that stakes were just about as high as they get.


mikenotspam
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Post by mikenotspam »

"...there were still weeks where I went out with 3 or 4 girls..."

"...my relative success was due to..."
I think the word "success" drastically overstates the reality you described :-)


EveMadeline
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Post by EveMadeline »

From what I've read on here in most journals, the ones with partners usually convert their SO. They didn't just find someone at Goodwill and ask them out (and if they did I want to know which Goodwill they shop at). It seems to me that the best bet is to find someone who is generally open-minded and then ease them into the idea of ERE or even just the idea of being more frugal.
Also, going along the lines of what LiquidSapphire said, it does make a girl wonder what your motives are. Someone up there said they wouldn't spend $25 on a meal because maybe the girl just wants a free meal. Well, to that I say what if the guy just wants a free meal? If you're going to be cheap, and lets be real here we all are, then I think explaining why would be nice. You don't have to tell the girl about your whole life as an EREer, but just a simple I'm trying to save right now would be enough I would think.
Really though, friggin' go to the supermarket and get some chicken breasts and lettuce and cook her a damn meal. She will love it even if you suck at cooking. It's cute to watch guys do things they clearly haven't mastered. And if you're good at cooking she will be impressed. That is all.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

J.O.S.H. - First of all, your name is annoying to type. Hereinafter, you will be referred to as "macdaddy". Second, you sound kind of like the rich Republicans who say things like "poor people should just start a business and make shitloads of money, like I did!" Did you basically get asked out, then say "I'd love to, but I have no money," and then the girl was like "no prob, bob, I'll pay!".
EveMadeline - I'd be wary of eating chicken cooked by someone who doesn't really know how to cook. Maybe stick to things that can't give you explosive diarrhea (never a good end to a date!)
All - I agree that you want to avoid doing things that appear cheap on a first date. The problem is that there's not much outward difference between someone who spends little because they have an awesome plan to be financially independent, and someone who spends little because they have no job, are irresponsible, are selfish, mooch off of others, and/or are otherwise in the financial dumps.


J.O.S.H.
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Post by J.O.S.H. »

@mikenotspam:
Hahahahaha, I guess so. It was a period of my life where I got really excited about the discovery that I could meet someone and, if things didn't go well, I would never see them again. Just think about that -- it makes no sense. Our tribal brains aren't built to handle that. It reduces all stakes to zero all the time. I started using strangers as sounding boards, testing jokes on them (sometimes telling the same joke to a dozen people I'd never met, getting their reaction, and moving on to perfect delivery), thinking at them.
To bring this back to the point, one of the ideas close to the center of the constellation ERE, it's insourcing. Instead of trading money for time, trade time for money. Do it yourself. Turns out this ports fairly well to dating. I view almost all times where I am deliberately trying to meet ladies as "trials" (science, you know how it is). Anyhow, do a stupid number of trials. Seriously. Talk to a hundred ladies a day, every day, for a month. And like frugality in ERE, you not only accumulate the raw skills (in metaphor: money), but you get the process skills (in metaphor: lack of desire for worthless crap) needed to make them valuable, most notably, don't worry when things go wrong, and keep trying with someone else.
My two cents, but given my history, it ended up saving me a lot more money than that.


Spartan_Warrior
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Post by Spartan_Warrior »

@Eve: I didn't say I wasn't willing to spend $25 on a first date. I said it's expected of a man to do this and that when extrapolated across the average dating process it becomes much more than "$25". In actual practice, I usually offer to pay the bill on the first date (unless I didn't like her!).
Don't get me wrong, even before ERE my first date of choice was the coffee shop meet. Easy, low-key, *relatively* inexpensive, and can be as long or short as necessary. I almost never invite anyone out to a restaurant or anything else expensive as a first date or even second date. I used to save it for the third date if it got that far. Nowadays, you are exactly right--I'd offer to cook dinner (and yes I can cook) rather than bother with a restaurant.
I've only dated a few times, though. Most of my relationships were more organic than that, but I'm not exposed to as many people outside work as I used to be. And to that end, @Josh: college is a whole different world entirely, man.
My larger point was that most women* my age are shallow and consumeristic. It's not a matter of successfully navigating the dating ritual and all the costs that entails--that's merely symptomatic of the real issue, of finding someone with any real values beyond what version iPhone someone's using and what their job title is.

(*Maybe this is equally true of men, I wouldn't know or care.)
Regardless, I think I just woke up a bit pissed today. Carry on.
P.S. Eve, are you single? I'd be glad to cook you up some chicken and rice. LOL


EveMadeline
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Post by EveMadeline »

Haha it's all good. I think you are right about women being materialistic, but guys also have their materialistic vices: watches, shoes, etc. I think for some women it's a matter of keeping up with societys norms: make-up, hair styles, fashion clothes as opposed to ones that are classic.


EveMadeline
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Post by EveMadeline »

Yes I am, but I am also 19 and in IL so there you have it :)


palmera
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Post by palmera »

ew Spartan_Warrior don't be creepy *shields EveMadeline*
I rant about how pre-programmed women are all the time. Having sad that, I'm not one to pay for first dates. Women put up with a lot in society, and childbirth/childrearing SUCKS and yet it seems to end up primarily the women's responsibility. We have to give up everything. And if we don't, we're seen as dried up old spinsters.
If I were a man, I'd feel sorry for women and would gladly show gallantry wherever I could.
So how about you give us a break and spend the $25xwhatever on dinner. Okay?


EveMadeline
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Post by EveMadeline »

Haha I like palmera :D


Fred Tracy
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Post by Fred Tracy »

I typically use the park for a first date venue. It's completely free!
If I like them, then sometimes I'll take them to the dollar movies, which is also pretty darn cheap.
I'm interested in this thread though, as I'm trying to create a dating "routine" of venues that are incredibly cheap, and very effective.
Still though, personal awesomeness has a lot to do with it. I've known people who could just take a girl out with them on a grocery run or whatever, and they'd be super successful. I'd wager that the better your social/dating skills are, the less you need to be "traditional" and shell out money.


J.O.S.H.
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Post by J.O.S.H. »

@Spartan_Warrior: yes. That being said, I live in LA now, and it although I've changed tune to a large extent about how to go about romancing, it's a lot easier here. But that's LA vs. College in Minnesota, so I can't imagine that surprises anyone.
I am interested in this idea that men get asked out. Honestly, there was a time when I tried to be appealing in some way, and that maybe happened once. But yes, I arrange things so that they are free. Free dates are simple and easy -- women are often neither. So the disruption almost always involves us walking somewhere, seeing something that costs money. I'd explain my perfectly sincere complete lack of money, and I'd say, "Sounds cool, how about you grab me this time and I'll grab the tab next time?" I guess the trick with that is to minimize the chance of a similar thing on the next date. Write poetry while laying in the grass by a library. That will literally never cost money. And if she's really so transactional as to never ever let go of a couple bucks you didn't plan on spending, she's probably a little uptight for you.
That being said, a lot of these dates involved some raw materials or situations that I got help on. A dodgeball borrowed for a double date that involved four-square (note: give the ladies fair warning, or they will WAY overdress). Notebooks and computers, of course -- as a technologist by trade I generally have a working computer to lend someone, and I'll use pen and paper, often salvaged from others.
Among those where supplies were not needed include DareMaster Competitions, which had a pretty weak start within my inner bro-only social circle but turned out to be pretty good first dates (and a great way to call the bluff of people who say they're adventurous). Twice I had a "first date" that was organized based on me saying, "We should sleep together". Actually, that might be three, depending on how you count it. With that exact wording, it's two.
My point, if I have a point, is that all these things are free, have worked extraordinarily well for me, and are in no way me-specific. I'm honestly not very impressive -- a fact I am starting to feel may only be proven by literally meeting me.
I am like the Republicans, dragoncar (if that is your real name... from now on I will call you macmommy). I get that. But really, if the advice "Try new, weird, fun stuff constantly" doesn't give you at least a small amount of success, literally nothing will. Maybe.
Also, I'd like to confirm the groceries as a good idea. Just going on a walk is great, too, but then again, I'm a huge walk buff. Not nature walks or anything, I just like walking, at a good pace, with one or two other people. I find it a good way to work through ideas.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

Lol, sorry Josh we must be misunderstanding each other. Your explanation makes sense. I also wasn't trying to imply that I'm lacking "a small amount of success," just that girls aren't paying for dates literally all the time.
I usually like to start out splitting the costs, and then once I'm in a solid relationship I don't really have a problem paying for everything. This of course depends on the individual girl and situation (I don't just invite girls on really expensive dates and then force them to pay half at the end).


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C40
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Post by C40 »

I agree with most of what Josh is saying. I had a number of years in my low 20's where I was very carefree, completely fearless of rejection, and very friendly/outgoing. When you have a smile, a friendly voice, and a gleam in your eye, simply saying hello and starting conversations randomly works well. You can meet a lot of people being that way, and when you meet a lot of people, you're bound to meet some that you can hit it off with quickly.

A young man 'on the prowl' (and ALSO thinking clearly) quickly learns that being very outgoing and a bit aggressive causes both friendly and unfriendly reactions.... Those unfriendly reactions are actually good because they help you quickly identify where your time would be wasted. The same principle is true in many more situations than looking for a soul mate in a bar at 12:30am.

I've also found that most of the women who were interested in me could not have cared less whether I took them out on dinner/movie/spending type dates. I'm not completely sure whether that is because it's really true, or if I may have allowed myself to mesh with only some portion of women?
I can say that I had many years that while I was sort of cheap (in a deliberate spending way) and had zero desire to go spend money on dates.. but I was far from the ERE mindset I have now.. I considered myself normal then and a number of my friends were the same way.. so not wanting to spend money on dates is not a particularly weird or ere specific thing. I have some faith in the world that there are plenty of people who believe $$ dates are no good.

** Now.. just so you know here... my methods are not 100% effective (a friend told me that after giving me some kind of advice on picking up women and I though it was pretty funny)

Edit (in 2014) - after starting to date women closer to middle age, I think some of my thoughts when I wrote this relate better to younger women (College age or low 20s).. Things change a bit after people get used to spending more money.
Last edited by C40 on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spartan_Warrior
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Post by Spartan_Warrior »

@palmera: LOL, that was a joke.
Oh, internets.


EveMadeline
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Post by EveMadeline »

Dragoncar- I went on a date once with a guy to a place that was not really expensive relatively speaking but I wouldn't have chosen it, and at the end of the dinner he said he "forgot his wallet" and I ended up paying for us both. Now, I'm not saying I would never pay for someone else, a lot of times I pay for my friends to see a movie or what have you. But on this particular date I had seen him holding his wallet earlier in the night. So 1. He just lied to me and 2. I don't mind paying every now and then but for pete's sake let me know before. What if I hadn't brought my purse? This was in highschool and I didn't even have my drivers license so I didn't really need a wallet most of the time. Grrr so frustrating. What would we have done? Washed dishes to pay for dinner? Run out without paying at all?
What I'm trying to say is I don't mind every now and then but I like to be prepared.
It was not a good date.
End. Rant.


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