I wonder if you could build such a tiny house on a stripped chassis of an old $2k used 24' (or so) travel trailer. The reason would be to be able to build the standard 120sq ft tiny house, then build 10' of attached (but lower grade, uninsulated/unheated) storage. Like a traveling shed. For me, the true tiny house is not really reasonable for storage reasons. With such storage, it might be more practical. Then you could realistically travel with it like an RV, but stay year round and theoretically more comfortably than in a typical RV.
Tumbleweed Tiny House (/RV) Village + Group-Build of Tumbleweeds
@chilly I plan to use a little detached storage thing for bicycle, bicycle trailer and maybe rowboat.
@Maus That seems like a pretty low award for a design competition. I don't think it's necessarily evil, but you'd probably get what you pay for. Jay Shafer never went to architecture school, but there's got to be some experience built into his designs, no?
@Maus That seems like a pretty low award for a design competition. I don't think it's necessarily evil, but you'd probably get what you pay for. Jay Shafer never went to architecture school, but there's got to be some experience built into his designs, no?
Ugh. Everyone is so worried about litigation anymore. Tumbleweed guy probably has 100's of designs "copyrighted" to the point where you can't build anything on a trailer without buying his plans.
Just build a "jumpingweed" and forget about the tumbleweed model.
The thinkers are gonna get too caught up in the thinking. If I wanted one done, it would have been done weeks ago and I wouldn't care about tumbleweed dude either. He can come and get my sorry pathetic jumpingweed ass. Live free or die!
Just build a "jumpingweed" and forget about the tumbleweed model.
The thinkers are gonna get too caught up in the thinking. If I wanted one done, it would have been done weeks ago and I wouldn't care about tumbleweed dude either. He can come and get my sorry pathetic jumpingweed ass. Live free or die!
Can't spell it out any better than this article:
http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stori ... ocus3.html
How much variation can you have when you build on a trailer? Not much.
The solution? Don't buy the plans and then make more than one. Don't look at the plans or gain access to them. Look at the photos (the body of work) and come up with your own variation. Have a dream about it. Construct.
Really, there isn't much you can do differently on a trailer, so tumbleweed probably has all the designs cornered. You aren't going to be able to come up with something revolutionary....just the exact reasons why most houses built today look just like someone else's (aside from ease of construction). You can only do so much on the same sized lot.
http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stori ... ocus3.html
How much variation can you have when you build on a trailer? Not much.
The solution? Don't buy the plans and then make more than one. Don't look at the plans or gain access to them. Look at the photos (the body of work) and come up with your own variation. Have a dream about it. Construct.
Really, there isn't much you can do differently on a trailer, so tumbleweed probably has all the designs cornered. You aren't going to be able to come up with something revolutionary....just the exact reasons why most houses built today look just like someone else's (aside from ease of construction). You can only do so much on the same sized lot.
I'm not going to respond directly to ChrisL anymore, but please, whoever is reading this, do not follow his advice. Specifically, don't "look at the photos ... and come up with your own variation".
It may or may not be right that people are "worried about litigation anymore," but anyone planning to save enough to live off the interest is a fool if they don't realize how much they can lose.
I'm not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. It is common-sense advice, however, not to get legal opinions from the Internet.
This is especially true if you re-read the body of that advice and find a number of glaring inconsistencies, the advice concerns US law, and comes from a Canadian IP address.
It may or may not be right that people are "worried about litigation anymore," but anyone planning to save enough to live off the interest is a fool if they don't realize how much they can lose.
I'm not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. It is common-sense advice, however, not to get legal opinions from the Internet.
This is especially true if you re-read the body of that advice and find a number of glaring inconsistencies, the advice concerns US law, and comes from a Canadian IP address.
It looks like these houses do lack some of the flexibility offered by an RV. They don't have tanks, and as such, couldn't really be used in the Wal Mart parking lot. They seem to sell external tanks for waste, but I don't get the impression there are clean water pumps - so you'd need to be hooked up to a pressurized source. I could be wrong on that - but don't see any info to the contrary.
May not matter to some, but just something to consider when you are looking at the pictures of it parked in some beautiful natural setting.
I'm also struggling with the dichotomy of being someone who could build one of these things myself, and also being someone who has the tools necessary to do so. Not a lot of space for the cabinet saw. One of the catch 22's I've already run into w/r to full time RV'ing... albeit less so due to larger size... tools and other stuff often go hand in hand with self sufficiency. Even as simple gardening implements as a shovel, rake, and 5 gallon bucket.
May not matter to some, but just something to consider when you are looking at the pictures of it parked in some beautiful natural setting.
I'm also struggling with the dichotomy of being someone who could build one of these things myself, and also being someone who has the tools necessary to do so. Not a lot of space for the cabinet saw. One of the catch 22's I've already run into w/r to full time RV'ing... albeit less so due to larger size... tools and other stuff often go hand in hand with self sufficiency. Even as simple gardening implements as a shovel, rake, and 5 gallon bucket.
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jacob
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@chilly - Something like this could be used
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/pr ... tanks/6073
I get the impression that tiny house toilets are often of the composting variety and that gray water is simply let onto the lawn.
For pressurized "city-water", all you need is a white garden hose. I think most plan to park them either in a park or someone's backyard where both water and electricity would be available.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/pr ... tanks/6073
I get the impression that tiny house toilets are often of the composting variety and that gray water is simply let onto the lawn.
For pressurized "city-water", all you need is a white garden hose. I think most plan to park them either in a park or someone's backyard where both water and electricity would be available.
What do you suggest someone does then dragoncar? Are you going to ante-up and buy the plans? What else do you have? Hire someone else to do it for you?
Anyone who has hands-on construction experience, including me, is suggesting that you don't need to buy the plans. If you need to outsource this, so be it, but it's not necessary. At all. Nor does it jive with ERE principles.
The design is bound by the footprint. There is really only so much you can do with a trailer. Take my advice on construction for what it's worth. I have 10 years of construction and renovation experience and have done my fair share of design and layout.
Anyone who has hands-on construction experience, including me, is suggesting that you don't need to buy the plans. If you need to outsource this, so be it, but it's not necessary. At all. Nor does it jive with ERE principles.
The design is bound by the footprint. There is really only so much you can do with a trailer. Take my advice on construction for what it's worth. I have 10 years of construction and renovation experience and have done my fair share of design and layout.
Hey Chris, Hey Dragoncar, I don't see Jay Shafer being very litigious. I think it really comes down to 1) your comfort level with doing something custom, and 2) your feelings on the ethics of using someone's design/idea without paying for it--this is only when you don't build custom.
ERE principles? If your ERE principles include protecting your capital, I would give some thought/research to what Dragoncar is saying--he may not have construction experience (right?) but he is a practicing attorney! WTF?
If a bunch of us are into buying plans, including a (discounted) license for each Tumbleweed we build, I predict we'll get a good deal from them, and the cost for the plans will likely be <10% of the entire project.
As a sidenote, Jay's new designs seem to sidestep the entire issue because they're meant to be customized and the plans are $49. That said, I still like the Lusby! (those bungalows are only 99 sq ft)
Also, pinging on any prospective takers for a springtime Tumbleweed/tiny house build?
ERE principles? If your ERE principles include protecting your capital, I would give some thought/research to what Dragoncar is saying--he may not have construction experience (right?) but he is a practicing attorney! WTF?
If a bunch of us are into buying plans, including a (discounted) license for each Tumbleweed we build, I predict we'll get a good deal from them, and the cost for the plans will likely be <10% of the entire project.
As a sidenote, Jay's new designs seem to sidestep the entire issue because they're meant to be customized and the plans are $49. That said, I still like the Lusby! (those bungalows are only 99 sq ft)
Also, pinging on any prospective takers for a springtime Tumbleweed/tiny house build?
Okay, point taken. But sometimes lawyers see things a bit too litigiously! Let the builder decide is fair enough. I have no current plans to build one. I'm just offering my expertise on building and design. We rearrange many interior spaces and plenty of bathrooms and kitchens. Building a glorified garden shed, by comparison, is pretty simple.
Firefighterjeff - I think the point is, you could probably stick with "most people," instead of "most women." I really doubt 50% of men in the US would choose to live without plumbing. Then again, you may have to limit it to people in industrial societies - since around 40% of the world population has no plumbing.
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jacob
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40lbs of tools doesn't take up that much space. It's metal and wood and I built my own toolbox (actually a tote) so it's very closely fitted.
It costs $3500 to have the house hauled coast to coast. I remember we paid something similar when renting a medium-sized uhaul for our relocation from IN to CA. Most of the cost is gas. It thus makes sense, given the price to build is $11000, not to build them too far from their destination.
I've heard 18' trailers quoted far higher than firefighter's number(?!). If the trailer is the priciest, maybe this is where the group-deal effort should be concentrated.
It costs $3500 to have the house hauled coast to coast. I remember we paid something similar when renting a medium-sized uhaul for our relocation from IN to CA. Most of the cost is gas. It thus makes sense, given the price to build is $11000, not to build them too far from their destination.
I've heard 18' trailers quoted far higher than firefighter's number(?!). If the trailer is the priciest, maybe this is where the group-deal effort should be concentrated.
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The Cricket
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CHIRP!! [That's a cricket roar.] I live in a tiny house of my own design, stick-built on a utility trailer. These are my "credentials" for what follows.
1. DESIGN: I live in a HOUSE, which is my HOME, and its foundation is a trailer. I drew three plans for Cricket Cottage and actually chalked to scale my first plan on the driveway. I observed many changes to make sitting on a folding chair "in" that first plan. I spent time asking and answering questions about what I need in a house for my lifestyle: I cook [I don't eat out]; I sew [sewing machine & serger]; I read [150+ books plus Kindle]; I've always had a home office; I like simplicity without severe lines; I like light from windows, but skylights leak in time; I don't like wood everywhere and I like color; I like ambiance in my surroundings, etc. My designs developed by means of overlays for different options. After settling on a design one plans locations, numbers and kinds of outlets and switches, including exterior outlets and lighting. Also, the location and size of windows, interior walls and storage, etc. And there are still 1,000+ decisions to go. Seriously, you are thinking of building a "garden shed" in which to live?
2. FOUNDATION: My trailer is from Trailers Plus: 7' x 18', heavy duty equipped, 10,000 GVWR. I was given credit for the fold up ramps. Trailer price [June 2009]: $2,736 plus lock hitch, sand pad, documentation fee, DMV fee and sales tax OR $3,050 off the lot. From my research tiny houses finish at about 7,500-8,000 pounds. They pull like a brick [no aerodynamics] at about 8 mpg by a 250 or 350-engine equipped truck.
3. CONSTRUCTION: Yes, one can install the floor, frame the walls and get the roof up quickly, especially if one ignores certain factors inherent in small homes like moisture/humidity, heat loss/gain, squareness of the structure [the house can torque when moving it], etc. You will live with those problems for the life of the house. There are details in general construction of a tiny house that take more time. How much? Maybe 5%, maybe more, depending on your knowledge and expertise.
I have had six men help me build over two years. They are all in the trades and have enabled me to build better than I could have on my own. I built the floor and helped with the framing. The men did the rafters and roof. As a woman I simply cannot handle 4'x8' sheets of lumber. I cut for the windows, built the facia/soffits, built the rain wall, cut and installed all the exterior trim, and did all the exterior painting. Likewise, the interior is a shared build. [Two years? Well, first I broke my ankle and foot laying down my Vespa-a five month recovery. Weather. Life, both mine and theirs. Weather. Unexpected health expenses. You get the idea. However, don't put down the number of hours to build and COMPLETE a tiny HOUSE.]
4. STORAGE: I have a good amount of storage in Cricket Cottage, highly customized to exactly what I own. I may yet add a "garage" for my bicycle on the rear end. However, most tiny house owners have external storage. I have a "shed" which is 24"x28"x38". I made it from leftover materials and it matches my house. It was my am-I-going-to-make-my-own-kitchen-cabinets project. Whereas the shed turned out well, I also decided not to make my cabinets. I also have a 2'x7' creeper which slides under the trailer [fabric storage].
5. DECK/SKIRTING: I used cinderblock steps for many months, but I like my tiny "deck" [which I hope to enlarge as I live in Northern CA]. I want to skirt the house with lattice as well. [I'm well-insulated in the floor.]
Bottom line: In my opinion, you all are a bit cavalier about this project at this point. You haven't sufficiently defined your finished product. How many of you are Amish and able to just show up for a barn raising out of previous experience?
Yours for good success!
1. DESIGN: I live in a HOUSE, which is my HOME, and its foundation is a trailer. I drew three plans for Cricket Cottage and actually chalked to scale my first plan on the driveway. I observed many changes to make sitting on a folding chair "in" that first plan. I spent time asking and answering questions about what I need in a house for my lifestyle: I cook [I don't eat out]; I sew [sewing machine & serger]; I read [150+ books plus Kindle]; I've always had a home office; I like simplicity without severe lines; I like light from windows, but skylights leak in time; I don't like wood everywhere and I like color; I like ambiance in my surroundings, etc. My designs developed by means of overlays for different options. After settling on a design one plans locations, numbers and kinds of outlets and switches, including exterior outlets and lighting. Also, the location and size of windows, interior walls and storage, etc. And there are still 1,000+ decisions to go. Seriously, you are thinking of building a "garden shed" in which to live?
2. FOUNDATION: My trailer is from Trailers Plus: 7' x 18', heavy duty equipped, 10,000 GVWR. I was given credit for the fold up ramps. Trailer price [June 2009]: $2,736 plus lock hitch, sand pad, documentation fee, DMV fee and sales tax OR $3,050 off the lot. From my research tiny houses finish at about 7,500-8,000 pounds. They pull like a brick [no aerodynamics] at about 8 mpg by a 250 or 350-engine equipped truck.
3. CONSTRUCTION: Yes, one can install the floor, frame the walls and get the roof up quickly, especially if one ignores certain factors inherent in small homes like moisture/humidity, heat loss/gain, squareness of the structure [the house can torque when moving it], etc. You will live with those problems for the life of the house. There are details in general construction of a tiny house that take more time. How much? Maybe 5%, maybe more, depending on your knowledge and expertise.
I have had six men help me build over two years. They are all in the trades and have enabled me to build better than I could have on my own. I built the floor and helped with the framing. The men did the rafters and roof. As a woman I simply cannot handle 4'x8' sheets of lumber. I cut for the windows, built the facia/soffits, built the rain wall, cut and installed all the exterior trim, and did all the exterior painting. Likewise, the interior is a shared build. [Two years? Well, first I broke my ankle and foot laying down my Vespa-a five month recovery. Weather. Life, both mine and theirs. Weather. Unexpected health expenses. You get the idea. However, don't put down the number of hours to build and COMPLETE a tiny HOUSE.]
4. STORAGE: I have a good amount of storage in Cricket Cottage, highly customized to exactly what I own. I may yet add a "garage" for my bicycle on the rear end. However, most tiny house owners have external storage. I have a "shed" which is 24"x28"x38". I made it from leftover materials and it matches my house. It was my am-I-going-to-make-my-own-kitchen-cabinets project. Whereas the shed turned out well, I also decided not to make my cabinets. I also have a 2'x7' creeper which slides under the trailer [fabric storage].
5. DECK/SKIRTING: I used cinderblock steps for many months, but I like my tiny "deck" [which I hope to enlarge as I live in Northern CA]. I want to skirt the house with lattice as well. [I'm well-insulated in the floor.]
Bottom line: In my opinion, you all are a bit cavalier about this project at this point. You haven't sufficiently defined your finished product. How many of you are Amish and able to just show up for a barn raising out of previous experience?
Yours for good success!
A friend of mine noticed me looking at 7 foot utility trailers for a tiny house. He pointed me in this direction.
http://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/2703783664.html
It is an interesting starting point versus a 7 foot wide utility trailer.
http://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/2703783664.html
It is an interesting starting point versus a 7 foot wide utility trailer.