How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Move along, nothing to see here!
TheRedHare
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:40 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by TheRedHare »

If you wanted to raise a large family (between 4-8 children) how would you go about doing so and still being ERE? Some major topics being education, housing, food, and transportation?

chenda
Posts: 3289
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by chenda »

Family business and put them to work asap :)

prognastat
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by prognastat »

It's still possible to live an ERE lifestyle, but unless you are making more money each kid is definitely going to slow down the rate to fire.

Some big things that can help would be:
- Learning to meal prep in bulk using smart shopping to get the items in bulk on sale.
- Not buying new for each kids but instead handing down things such as toys/clothes etc and repair them rather than throw them out.
- Not sending them to expensive colleges, get them to work hard enough at school to qualify for grants and have them go to an in-state college pursuing a reasonable major.
- Don't upgrade to a larger home than necessary just because of the extra kids, depending on the size of the rooms you can get 4 preteen en probably 2 teen kids to a bedroom. In the past kids have had to deal with way more than 1 sibling sharing their room.
- Make sure the kids help around the house, this saves you time, takes them time and teaches them important life skills.

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

Free Range Parenting.

User avatar
Seppia
Posts: 2016
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:34 am
Location: South Florida

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by Seppia »

I have always thought of ERE as an approach to life/things rather than a set of parameters*, so I don't think kids would change the approach. For sure they would change the parameters though.

*the title of jacob's book and the very high variety of people's paths we see on this forum would make me think I'm thinking of ERE "correctly" if you see what I mean

User avatar
Jean
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Switzterland

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by Jean »

Varg Vikernes and Marie Cachet seem to be doing exactly this.

User avatar
Seppia
Posts: 2016
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:34 am
Location: South Florida

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by Seppia »

I'm not sure I would take varg as an example to follow, honestly.
He's a musical genius but his talents are definitely confined to that camp imho

User avatar
fiby41
Posts: 1611
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 am
Location: India
Contact:

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by fiby41 »

The cost of raising the n+1 th child will be lower than the nth child, where n is a natural number.
Buying new clothes once a year, passing on old clothes that don't fit to younger children, delegating responsible of caretaking of younger children to the older children, letting your friends/family/family friends who cannot have their own children adopt yours,...

Source: my mother is 1 of 6 siblings.

DutchGirl
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by DutchGirl »

You ... can't have it all.

Raising kids costs money. Every extra kid costs you more money.

So there will be a trade off between how much money you'll have and how many children you'll have.

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by saving-10-years »

@redhare Maybe look into the Tightwad Gazette family for evidence of what can be done? See for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFyD-FTf-E

Costs of transport and housing are marginal costs (each additional child need not cost much more) unless you want them to have one bedroom, one gaming console, computer, etc. from new with no sharing and they each do separate holidays or go to different clubs/schools concurrently without use of public transport).

Costs of food can be massively reduced by making your own meals from scratch (we know this here already). The biggest hurdle for most couples would be that they cannot afford to live on one wage so are paying childcare costs and lack the time to live frugally and make their own fun/food.

I realise that I am older than most here but growing up we shared one bedroom (mother and two daughters in one small double size bed) until age 8 and I shared a bedroom with my sister til 18 and also lived in shared room during first two years while at college.

@Chenda's idea of family business is a good one.

@Dutchgirl, saw your post after I had written this. We have one child and he cost a lot of time to entertain/care for in the early years. With two I am sure they would amuse themselves (although I do _like_ playing board games myself). So its definitely a declining cost as you increase family size. Or at least can be. The step up from zero to one child is the biggest step of all IMO.

User avatar
Jean
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:49 am
Location: Switzterland

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by Jean »

Seppia wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:50 pm
I'm not sure I would take varg as an example to follow, honestly.
He's a musical genius but his talents are definitely confined to that camp imho
They are currently raising 6 children while on a very low budget, and he probably had more than his share of insight when it concerns our mytholgy. If you believe him that Euronymous was planning to kill him he doesn't even count as a murderer. Despite this, he certainly could be taken as an example for somemone who wants to raise a large family and be ERE. One doesn't need to share his political views to sees this.

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

Historically, large families on less money per person was the norm.

https://qz.com/1099800/average-size-of- ... e-present/

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dsh ... erspective

Being frugal and efficient seems like the *only* way to successfully raise 8 kids. And being home rather than at work would certainly make it easier.

It's my opinion that modern US children are overparented on average. Kids are raised to be more dependent. There is a cliche about freshman college students calling there mom to ask about how to do laundry or cook pasta.
TheRedHare wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:51 pm
major topics being education, housing, food, and transportation?
If you own or rent, you are already paying for public schools. If you're FI you can home school.

A nuclear family's house need never be bigger than 3 bed, 1 bath. One room for all the boys, one for all the girls, one master.

Food can be bought cheaper in bulk. And kids can feed themselves almost as soon as they can walk. My kids are preschool aged, and they know where to find raisins, dates, bananas, and other fruits as well as cheese and coldcuts in the fridge. This is probably 75-90% of what they eat. Given that our closest primate relatives live almost exclusively on fruit with occasional meat, this is probably reasonably close to an ideal human diet.

Transportation need not cost more than shoes if you live walking distance to school and groceries.

Clothes can be mostly hand me downs. The kids will all be outgrowing their clothes every single year they live with you, so there's no reason they should be more expensive than in a 1 or 2 child household.

My wife has a network of other moms that are constantly giving each other old clothes their own kids don't fit in anymore. Grandmothers, in particular, like seeing grandkids in clothes that their own kids wore. They stockpile that stuff.

George the original one
Posts: 5404
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by George the original one »

If you're not living in a good public transportation system, the family transport will be a van if there's more than 6 total in the family. Or maybe one of the few SUVs that seat more than 6. There's really not much getting around that unless you use multiple vehicles.

Public school will transport the kids on a bus if home isn't within walking distance.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Well, I would say step #1 would be finding a female who thinks you are fantastic in bed, so that you can maintain her in such a state of dopey bliss, she doesn't even notice that she is continually barefoot and pregnant and stirring a huge pot of lentil soup.

EdithKeeler
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by EdithKeeler »

I’d negotiate a contract with A&E for “FInancial Independence: X Kids and Counting.” Let TV cameras follow you around, endorse certain products—“Bob’s Lentils: 25 cents a meal!” And blog, of course, with properly placed products. You’ll be FI in no time!!!

Seriously it seems like the tricky thing with having a large family is not the day-to-day food-shelter-clothing issues, but rather stuff like medical costs (if you’re in the US), and enrichment types of things for your kids. Which, of course, you don’t have to do.... I guess I’d just worry about my kids having enough “ extras” to be able to compete against other kids for college, etc. if they wanted to go that route. Though of course you can swap or something for stuff like piano lessons, etc., too.

stand@desk
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by stand@desk »

In Canada we get $x per month per child based on family income and the child's age. Buying clothes is a minor expense, the diapers are a bit expensive. Everything else isn't really an additional expense, except you or your spouse would need to stay home with the kid(s) and the other spouse would work and have a good benefit plan IMO. I don't think it would be necessarily desirable to have full ERE for a large family, but instead live very frugally with one parent working full-time. I don't think it's necessary for daycare and having both spouses work. I don't think kids cost that much more money than not having them (with governemnt assistance) except the diapers. In a conservative country without family benefits I think becoming an ERE family would be much more difficult or just take longer to achieve.

suomalainen
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by suomalainen »

Unhappily

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6851
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by jennypenny »

I only had 3 but I wanted more so I looked into how to do it. Is there a particular reason you want a large family? Is it a quiverfull thing or a catholic thing or a homesteady thing? Just asking because the tactics and support groups might be different.

The typical suggestion is to homestead and I get that. For me, though, I thought transporting the kids everywhere was one of the biggest annoyances. We live in the burbs but close to the elementary school, library, town pool, and playground. If I had a dozen, I’d want to be able to walk to as much as possible. Another benefit is that then you’re able to let the older kids walk to things on their own much sooner.

We lived in the city before we had kids and I could make an argument for living in an urban area where everything was walkable and there was tons of free entertainment if you could find big enough housing and decent schools.

The food and other things aren’t that bad if you stick to typical frugal living advice. Get the kids used to buying used, sharing, making their own lunches, etc, from an early age and it’s easier. I’m not a fan of having older kids raise the younger kids as many large family promote. I also don’t feel it’s necessary if you let the kids be self-sufficient from an early age.

If one of you is working then medical insurance won’t be that bad (it’s usually a flat rate after 3 kids). You’ll have a lot of visits but most are basic and only require a copay. (I’d recommend avoiding an HDHP just because of the volume of paperwork you’d have and very little time to do it). If one or more of your kids has special needs however, things can get costly fast. Try to live in a state with a good CHIP program that will provide secondary insurance in that case.

The expensive part IMO is stuff like braces. Look at your own teeth … will they probably need them? That’s $3K x 8 kids. It’s also tough if you end up with a couple of music/dance/sports prodigies and you want them to participate in expensive extracurricular activities. You can swing one or two but that won’t seem ‘fair’ and you’ll end up trying to compensate with the others. You have to commit to only doing inexpensive stuff (very hard).

You also can’t finance college and you have to make that clear and stick to it. You can offer to let them live with you and provide food and shelter while they attend college. If helping with college is really important to you, then move to a college town where they could commute to a good school or work at the college while attending. One of you could get a job at the college so they get some tuition assistance as well.*

A big issue for me would have been the volume of homework and academic assistance. It’s almost impossible to spend more than 15 minutes of one-on-one time with each kid after school with that many, even if you read to all of them as a group. That’s not much time, especially if you’re committed to afterschooling. I don’t think homeschooling alleviates that problem.

The biggest issue for me was the social part. More kids = more assemblies, teacher conferences, commitments to help out at school, class parties, birthday parties, etc. If you’re an introvert, this can get overwhelming. It might not be an issue for you but since there are so many introverts here I thought I should mention it. I could have managed the financial and academic issues with 8 kids but I would have been crushed under the weight of the social requirements.


* I don’t think it’s necessary to have one parent at home—both can work but it will be tough on DW’s employment while she’s having babies and out on leave all the time. This is where being ERE gives you the freedom to choose a job for location or medical reasons or educational reasons instead of financial reasons.

ThisDinosaur
Posts: 997
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:31 am

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by ThisDinosaur »

jennypenny,

Did you have to do 3 across car seats at any point? What vehicle did you have?

What's wrong with giving the oldest extra responsibility? I figure it magnifies the birth order effect and prepares them for raising their own kids.

How much more paperwork is there, really, between an HDHP and a more comprehensive plan? Seems to me its about the same, given that the MOOP is usually similar and you generally have to argue with and double check the insurance companies about everything either way.


One aspect that hasn't been discussed yet is actually *having* the kids. Peripartum care gets *seriously* expensive. I established a HDHP not long before finding out my wife was pregnant with our second. (I'd read that this is one of the few instances where you should never have a high deductible.) DW insisted on having a midwife and a doula (not covered by insurance or even counted toward deductible) and I proceeded to save no money at all that year.... :stoic-jaw-clench-emoji:

Next time around she wants to do a home birth. This appeals to my cheapskate, frugal, ERE, and naturalistic fallacy sides. (Humans never delivered in hospitals before 1900 and now we *always* do. WTF!?!) OTOH, I am super nervous about all the terrible, terrible things that can go wrong.

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 15907
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
Contact:

Re: How to raise a large family and be ERE?

Post by jacob »

jennypenny wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:29 am
It’s also tough if you end up with a couple of music/dance/sports prodigies and you want them to participate in expensive extracurricular activities. You can swing one or two but that won’t seem ‘fair’ and you’ll end up trying to compensate with the others. You have to commit to only doing inexpensive stuff (very hard).
Doesn't even have to be an economic constraint. DW was #4 (a surprise) and by that count/time her parents had lost the enthusiasm for organizing/driving around to extracurricular/sports activities. So there's also a risk that parents might end up not compensating with the others.
ThisDinosaur wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:51 am
What's wrong with giving the oldest extra responsibility? I figure it magnifies the birth order effect and prepares them for raising their own kids.
Exactly! I was the oldest and my mother worked in daycare/preschool in various capacities including at home which compounded the effect, so I have a good idea of what parenting entails already. The lessons of this involuntary "preparation" is 50% of the reason why I chose not to have kids myself. I think from my parents' POV this was an unintended/undesired consequence, but I'm kinda grateful that I didn't have to learn this lesson after having kids of my own.

Post Reply