How to find an ER city?

[sky]

I would like to start looking for a city to move to for the last period of my life from 60 years to ?? years.

Some priorities are bicycle friendly, cheap housing, transit, interesting people, culture and activities. Probably most important is some type of community that I would fit in and could participate in. Perhaps a college town for culture and for the library and pool. Cheap housing in a walkable area, I know that is asking a lot. At the moment I am interested in Plains states, but not tied to any region or even country yet.

I am wondering how others have done research to identify potential cities and what priorities that others find important.

[SavingWithBabies]

A couple of prior threads:

ERE City (US)
ERE City (US) List of Cities -- list ended up on the wiki: ERE City (Wiki)
Possible ERE City -- Berlin, Germany
Google search of this forum for "ere city"

I've come to find smaller liberal university cities are more expensive than one would think. At least here in the midwest, USA. But my sample size is small.

[Jean]

Any City in switzerland would fit your description.

[Riggerjack]

Sky, Aren't you on the southern Washington coast? What is it you don't like about where you are?

[wolf]

I would start researching price levels of various cities in comparison to your future (ER) income.

I did some research with some quite good price and earnings data from UBS. You could find the link to the data source here: SR comparison of Cities 2018

Also Numbeo is quite good to search on a more meta level. You could find the link here Quality of Life Index 2018

In addition to that I can recommend you the Mercer Quality of Living Survey, which covers some of your aspects. You could find an overview on Wikipedia here: Mercer Quality of Living Survey

I guess it depends on in which country do you want to ER. Am I assume correctly, that it should be in the States? If so, then I'd suggest you to start a Google search like this: best places to retire in us

The above mentioned surveys could give you an overview. IMO they are places to start thinking and researching. Maybe you could limit your search, e.g. size of the city, country, climate, language, politic spectrum, etc... Then it would be way easier to give inspirations and suggestions.

[sky]

I live in a beach town on Lake Michigan. I thought it would be a good choice but the town is being taken over by tourist businesses and doesn't have as much to offer the full time resident. I am only researching at this time.

[thegreatvoid]

I have been told that Odessa, Ukraine is ridiculously cheap . like 200 dollars rent, 5 dollar steak meal at a good restaurant.
visa situation is apparently not very easy, but according to a client who lives there, it is very easy to bribe the police.

[SavingWithBabies]

@sky If you don't mind my asking, are you on the Michigan side? What don't you like about where you are now? Is it that the place you are now is lacking all of the things in the first post that you seek?

I've gazed somewhat longingly at some of those small cities/towns on Lake Michigan. Unfortunately, it's not in the cards for us with our kids if things go to plan A in terms of schooling (but it might work for plans B or C). So for now, I just wonder what it would be like to live there. I have found with a family and work, I'm so wrapped up in things that I don't really long for a lot of engagement with the local community. However I could see that changing as the kids grow and eventually leave and/or I reach FI (or coast FI).

[sky]

My dissatisfaction is more personal than a dissatisfaction with the area. I have been involved with local politics for quite a few years and am getting tired of it. There is constant pressure to develop this area which often negatively impacts quality of life of those who live there. Currently the pressure is airbnb type use of a large percentage of the homes in the city and a proposal to allow construction of multifamily homes anywhere in the city. The city administration is incompetent and unethical and any attempt to stand up for the resident owner occupant leads to retaliation, slander and shunning.

[sky]

OK, I finally worked my way through the "ERE City" thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1299&start=260

I suggest further discussion continue there because much has already been worked out.

[Riggerjack]

My dissatisfaction is more personal than a dissatisfaction with the area. I have been involved with local politics for quite a few years and am getting tired of it. There is constant pressure to develop this area which often negatively impacts quality of life of those who live there. Currently the pressure is airbnb type use of a large percentage of the homes in the city and a proposal to allow construction of multifamily homes anywhere in the city. The city administration is incompetent and unethical and any attempt to stand up for the resident owner occupant leads to retaliation, slander and shunning.

This is everywhere. In rural areas, as local economies are facing global competition, small towns are mill towns, or retirement towns, or tourist towns, or a failed one of the above, desperately trying to be a successful "any of the above".

Mill towns have their advantages and disadvantages. A local economy is good. But the town is vulnerable to the failure of the mill.

Tourist towns are self explanatory. If scenery and a constant influx of new, clueless people are what make you happy, a tourist town or college town is for you.

But me, I aim for outside of a retirement town. All the retirees means the local economy is geared towards the things I will need, medical support, etc. Turnover is high, since most retirement doesn't last long, and the urge to build tourism gets squashed with a massive crush of NIMBY.

But I will be outside of town, in that I prefer autonomy. And keeping my nieghbors at a distance, for their own comfort and safety.

BTW, Sequim, wa is my solution, if you need an example.

[Riggerjack]

BTW, failed mill towns are cheap, but all the vigor and competence leaves if another economy doesn't grow. Then you have a meth/oxy meltdown as those with deep roots struggle with the change, and cheap living attracts all the problems that cheap living attracts.

But the next phase, is either slow, drawn out failure, or the rebranding of building back up. When I knew Sequim growing up, it was a one stop light town suffering from spotted owl exposure. Now logging is a sideline, and they are harvesting retirees who bring money from more developed economies. Long term tourists, if you will.

[SavingWithBabies]

@Sky Thanks for the background details. That gives me a lot to think about/consider when looking at those communities.

Have you looked at Marquette, Michigan? It is of course in the Upper Peninsula AND it's on the Superior side so it has a longer winter. But it's got a university and apparently it's turned around quite a bit. Maybe too small. I'm planning on taking a closer look in August while vacationing up there to see what the UP is like. I tossed around the idea of renting there for a year to see what the northern UP winter is like.

From your original list:
- has tons of mountain bike trails -- maybe not quite what looking for?
- small enough that maybe transit is not needed however would need vehicle to get out of UP (unless university presence brings in buses)
- supposedly has interesting people with bit more of a liberal bent and weird accepted but this is based on reading opinions online so YMMV
- city is small (20k population?) but region/count is about 65k population and it's the biggest city in UP so has economic presence due to that

Probably too far north but I thought it was interesting.

[sky]

Too cold, growing season too short.

[7Wannabe5]

Marquette does have a cool mix of your usual college town weirdos and just-wandered-in-from-the-woods weirdos. Beautiful beaches and forests to explore with nobody else around, and funky independent book stores and cafes. Downside would be that Lake Superior never gets warm. Black flies. The winters are seriously polar exploration level cold and snowy to the extent that many year round residents have city houses and summer camps (large cottages on the lake.) Giant mosquitoes.

[Smashter]

Interesting timing, as I am going to Marquette tomorrow to visit my brother. He moved up their last year to take a job as a family physician, with his reasoning being that they were offering a ton of money since it's hard to get doctors to want to go there.

He loves it so far. But his situation is a bit unique. He went from a dumpy apartment in a crappy area of Toledo, OH, straight to a beautiful new condo overlooking Lake Superior. He also upgraded from a beat up 2001 Camry a brand new Subraru, so had no problems driving in the snow. Maybe he'll like it a bit less when hedonic adaptation sets in?

Whatever the case, he can't stop raving about Marquette right now. I've been there twice, and there is a lot to like. 7W5 hit the nail on the head with the positives.

I think it's too small for me to do full time, year after year. We were deciding on dinner one night on my last visit and I learned that they have no Indian restaurants. I couldn't believe it at first. Not that I eat out a lot, it was just an interesting "whoa, you are not in Brooklyn anymore" moment.

[C40]

You might like these in Kansas: Wichita, Topeka, Lawrence.

Pretty mild climate, so long growing seasons and much less cold/snow than Michigan. Very cheap houses but people still have decent incomes. Colleges in Wichita and Lawrence. (not sure if Lawrence is cheap though, I haven't looked there)

[jacob]

Road trip?

https://www.amazon.com/Reconnaissance-M ... 532780117/

[sky]

I like Marquette a lot but am tired of blizzards.

I wrote the original post while on a road trip from the UP along US2 to Glacier NP, then down the valleys in MT to Yellowstone, and back to MI across WY, SD, IA and IL.

The most attractive cities that I saw were Petoskey, MI, Missoula, MT, and Dubuque, IA. Since we returned I still think that the beach town on Lake Michigan that we live in is the best place for us (South Haven) despite the political turmoil.

I am going out to WA in the fall. I am trying to convince the Frau to consider moving back to Europe, at least for a few months.

[Smashter]

My sister lived in Lawrence for a while. There are definitely some very cheap areas, and the campus is pretty. If for some reason you're a college basketball fan, you should plan a visit around a KU home game. It was such a fun experience.

Don't worry, I'm out of siblings now.