So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

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Mikeallison
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So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by Mikeallison »

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... tron-stars

The Financial Times actually had a more recent (and better) article on this, but it's behind a paywall. I don't know if this is common knowledge among this crowd, but it kinda blew my mind that these elements only occur because of these specific cosmic events. It's a trip to think that my watch was only made possible by two stars running into each other. :shock:

Anyway thought I would share.

jacob
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Re: So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by jacob »

I used to work on this stuff (nucleosynthesis). I didn't do neutron star collisions myself, but several of my colleagues did.

This is the first detection of both light and gravitational waves, but simulations of NS-NS collisions have been done for years (20+ years). Simulations give you density and temperature from which the nucleosynthesis can be calculated and such calculations date back to the mid 20th century.

Here's wiki about the origin of the elements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-process ... _table.svg

You can calculate the observed concentrations (called abundances) for almost all the elements using nuclear physics (which you can calculate directly from quantum mechanics(*)) and get very accurate results.

(*) Here's a personal finance blogger doing exactly that: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0X01908678

suomalainen
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Re: So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by suomalainen »

@Jacob, so a question I've wondered about re: the stuff our solar system is made of. Do we know how much is primordial matter (never been fused) vs how much came from [supernovae/other cosmic events]? Curious if we could trace our origins to just one star or not, but I guess if some elements require cosmic collisions, the answer would be no.

jacob
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Re: So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by jacob »

Yes, we know that quite accurately with the exception of a few isotopes (out of about two thousand!) where observations don't quite match with theoretical calculations(*). Otherwise, the rest is matches up well enough to blow your mind (or mine anyway). So the answer is mostly yes at this point.

(*) Those are subject to intense research by some 5 or 500 people in the world.

The solar system is made out of "star stuff" that's already been fused about once. This means we're a second generation solar system made mostly out of a matter that was ejected from a previous supernova and then mixed a bit with other (1st gen) supernova ejecta from other stars in the Milky Way. Most of the isotopic composition can be explained from just one star (start with big bang isotopes (almost all H and He), process them in a star, then blow them up in a supernova after several billion years) but not all. This begets fields like interstellar-mixing that deals with how matter moves around the Milky Way, NS mergers (the subject of the OP), black hole accretion disks (another possible source), and even XRB bursts (my work)... but most of it can be explained by a single supernova explosion (temperature and density evolutions during the collapse) combined with the rather well known nuclear isotope data.

So we're a 2nd generation solar system (stars take time to blow up ... and if you're not sufficiently heavy, you'll never contribute .. the heavier the faster .. hmm I suppose this is much like real life :-P ). Whatever you see around you and in the rest of the solar system has been "run through" another star (s- and r-process) once already; then emitted to the interstellar medium as generation 1 stars; made out of Big Bang material that went supernova. That's where Carl Sagan's "we're made of star stuff" comes from.

Mikeallison
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Re: So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by Mikeallison »

jacob wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:02 pm
I used to work on this stuff (nucleosynthesis).

Here's wiki about the origin of the elements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-process ... _table.svg
Well it has been a very educational day today (the big bang gave us only two elements!?). I feel a little ashamed that I had no idea about this stuff until now. I'll check out the rest of the wiki, If anyone knows of any good books on this written with the layman in mind, or videos, please let me know.

RealPerson
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Re: So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by RealPerson »

I was under the impression that the big bang only produced H. I didn't know He was part of the big bang. I thought He was the result of H fusion. Exactly like the reaction going on in our sun. Exploding supernovas produce large amounts of heavier isotopes, including gold. It would be cool to see this happen up close, except I understand these are rather violent events.

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Re: So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by jacob »

BB produced H, He, and a little bit of Li and Be. The classic layman text is The First Three Minutes by Weinberg. It's been a few decades since I read it. I don't know any layman books on general nucleosynthesis, here's a good one at the undergraduate level https://www.amazon.com/Nucleosynthesis- ... 01JXNMLUQ/ Wikipedia has a lot of stuff. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis

Here's an intro to solar nucleosynthesis: https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes ... index.html

And on the subject of Nachbarsternsupernovaeksplosionsgefahr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_supernova

Mikeallison
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Re: So gold (and a bunch of other stuff) only comes from the collision of neutron stars apparently?

Post by Mikeallison »

Jacob,

Thanks! I will work my way down your list. I don't mind text books, as long as they are on a foundational level, that is how I'm teaching myself Latin. I haven't figured out what to do with all the leisure time yet, but having the free time to read like this has been incredible.

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