Intelligent design as a resource

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daylen
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Intelligent design as a resource

Post by daylen » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:11 pm

I have been reading several books on permaculture lately, and I thought of an idea. Why isn't intelligent design ability considered a resource? The ability to creatively observe and respond to change in a system varies with respect to time just as does water, energy, social capital, and so forth. In designing a sustainable system, the variation of intelligent design ability itself should be accounted for.

For instance, consider the contingency of the lead designer of the system dying without passing on this valuable resource, then a system that requires consistent intelligent design would become fragile. This resource requires time to develop and years of practice which further amplifies the potential problem. Developing a large social web of connections would minimize the variance of this resource, and fall-back systems (that have similar structure to the original system) should be in place that require less intelligent interaction to sustain.

I think a parallel to this thought was mentioned by Jacob at some point when he considered falling back to an annuity/perpetuity if he failed to intelligently design a portfolio in his older age.

Just venting thought. :D

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bryan
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by bryan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:06 pm

Of course, this problem is not unique to permaculture. It is accounted for in some models/theories where it is a more obvious, important risk factor (business, military, economics). It would be good if humans were better able to (be aware of and) estimate risks :P

On the bright side, eventually intelligence will be banked inside of systems of computer systems and humans won't need to worry about such things ourselves :lol:

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Gilberto de Piento
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by Gilberto de Piento » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:08 am

I read the title and thought you meant something else. Intelligent design is an alternative to believing in evolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

halfmoon
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by halfmoon » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:06 pm

Gilberto de Piento wrote:I read the title and thought you meant something else. Intelligent design is an alternative to believing in evolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
Glad I'm not the only one. ;)

7Wannabe5
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:27 am

@daylen: I think what you are attempting to describe is an aspect of embodied energy. You might be too young to remember this but there used to be a public service commercial for the United Negro College Fund that included the very memorable line "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." IOW, skin tone is a terrible method for measuring how societal investment in educational funds might be best allocated. This is a poignant example of how any time you are applying a rigid linear method of analysis, you are being too stupid because you are not allocating adequate life-energy to the brain functioning that would allow you to be smarter. IOW, you are sacrificing overall increase in resiliency of system in favor of efficient growth in mono-dimension.

Another example would be the difference between goal of preparing a meal that contains less than X% fat and Y% sucrose and is palatable vs. preparing a meal that is delicious and nutritious. Or the difference between the value of maintaining a University in your locale vs. X% of students in your locale achieving Y% success on standardized test. IOW, qualities that can readily be intuited through broad sensory and intellectual perception vs. quantities that can be measured and likely eventually achieved by a robot.

Even putting aside the current availability of cheap petroleum, using PVC to power robots is more efficient use of solar/land acreage than growing potatoes to power human beings. Therefore, it becomes more important than ever to value that which makes us human in our own wonderfully creative myriad inefficient ways.

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by enigmaT120 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:31 pm

When I see tripe for sale in the stores, I can't stop myself from thinking "A mind is a terrible thing to taste." even though I've never tried it.

Intelligent Design isn't really an alternative to evolution, it's just an attempt to insert God into normal evolutionary theory, saying He gives it little prods to guide it. I think it's blasphemy. I have no idea why it was ever invented, though even the papacy seems to have accepted that it's possible.

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by halfmoon » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:52 pm

I'm pretty sure that tripe is stomach lining, not brain. Also can mean nonsense, as in "Intelligent Design (the religious version) is utter tripe."

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by enigmaT120 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:08 pm

Oh. I haven't eaten that either, except as sausage casings. I thought there was some specific word for cow brains as food but I can't find it.
Thanks!

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bryan
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by bryan » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:36 pm

Never heard of tripe being used for sausage (you probably mean intestines?). Tripe can be decent if chewy or rather rank. I usually stay away from ordering it at restaurants or cooking it myself on the chance that it is rank (if it's home-processed and your family/friend chef attests to it's non-rankness, sure).

George the original one
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by George the original one » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Pho is about the only way I've found tripe to be accessible for I have no stomach for haggis.

Google says cow brain is Cervelle de Vea in Europe or sesos in Mexico. Either way, mad cow disease is to be avoided, I think.
Last edited by George the original one on Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dragline
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by Dragline » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Yup, tripe is guts. Good in soup if done right, particularly the Romanian "Ciorba de Burta", which translates literally as "belly broth."

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Ego
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by Ego » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:01 pm

Back when we were dating, Mrs. Ego's grandmother would make menudo especially for me and she would sit and watch me eat it. I think she was trying to encourage me to go away.

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by halfmoon » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:37 pm

I've had tripe only in dim sum. It was delicious thanks to the sauce. The restaurant we used to work in served sweetbreads, which customers invariably believed were testicles for some reason. They're actually the thymus or pancreas and were basically a soft, spongy vehicle for another great sauce.

DH thinks Americans are a bunch of wimps because we generally shun organs or otherwise unfamiliar parts of the animal. He ate sour lung on a regular basis back in Munich. My mother used to serve beef tongue, and I eat it now in taco or burritos. On the other hand: we saw packages of Pork Anus in a Chinatown meat market, and I draw the line there. Wimps R Us.

What was the original topic again? ;)

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Dragline
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by Dragline » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:02 pm

I had a tripe taco tonight. It was good, but not as good as the spicy goat meat. There was a beef tongue available. Maybe another time.

I have a Czech friend who is constantly trying to smuggle in various meats from Europe. The Swedish sausage was duly confiscated. Then there was the horrible story about the carp that ended up in "lost luggage" for two weeks. I'll ask him about Pork Anus.

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by halfmoon » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:50 am

Dragline wrote: Then there was the horrible story about the carp that ended up in "lost luggage" for two weeks. I'll ask him about Pork Anus.
Did you ask your friend? I also NEED to hear the horrible carp story.

DH hasn't (knowingly) eaten pork anus, but he loves blood sausage and blood-and-tongue sausage. When I grew up in Pennsylvania, scrapple was regularly sold in grocery stores; maybe it still is. This is a gelatinous cake made from unknown meat scraps (as my brother would say: the parts that think, the parts that blink, and the parts that stink) cooked with cormeal and lard. It's commonly sliced, then fried in more lard (because no such thing as too much lard, eh brute?) and eaten for breakfast.

For what it's worth: my grandfather ate a lot of this stuff, and he lived a long, active life.

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Dragline
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by Dragline » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:33 pm

My MIL makes scrapple when we visit them in Northeast PA. Mystery breakfast meat! Tastes great with hot sauce on it.

Eating fresh carp is a Christmas tradition in the Czech Republic and other parts of central and eastern Europe. Families will often keep live carp in their bathtubs so they are fresh for Christmas Eve dinner. So my friend was given this large carp (freshly killed) by some relatives to bring back from Prague to the US. He figured it would survive a trip and plane ride at cold temperatures, so packed it in his checked luggage. Unfortunately, his luggage got lost and took a trip to Miami. He did not get it back for two weeks.

Needless to say, the carp was inedible by then. And all his clothes smelled like dead fish.

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by halfmoon » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:45 pm

See? I knew I needed to hear that carp story! It will live forever in the retelling. 8-)

You just blew up another misconception we'd been clinging to: carp are nasty-tasting. I googled this, and apparently (as with most things) opinion varies with region and culture. However: I think we can unite worldwide in agreement that any fish would be undesirable after spending 2 weeks on land in Miami.
Dragline wrote:Tastes great with hot sauce on it.
I envision this as a marketing slogan for all sorts of mystery meat: scrapple, Spam, Soylent Green...

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by EMJ » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:05 pm

we saw packages of Pork Anus in a Chinatown meat market,
off, off topic

This American Life
Ben Calhoun tells a story of physical resemblance — not of a person, but of food. A while ago, a farmer walked through a pork processing plant in Oklahoma with a friend who managed it. He came across boxes stacked on the floor with labels that said "artificial calamari." So he asked his friend "What’s artificial calamari?" "Bung," his friend replied. "Hog rectum." Have you or I eaten bung dressed up as seafood? Ben investigated

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio- ... gers?act=1

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by halfmoon » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:20 pm

Now I know why we only buy calamari steaks! No ring(er)s. :shock:

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by jacob » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:31 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB-JzPBJalA ... also applies to "eating".

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by halfmoon » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:14 pm

I'm trying to decide whether this reassures (everything is an illusion, so whatever) or horrifies (what are we "eating"??). I'm going with brain wipe. Kindly do not illuminate my existence, jacob! A well-crafted fantasy is a useful tool.

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by jacob » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:49 pm

FWIW, I'm not gonna terminate this thread for being off topic or irreedimable. I'm looking forward to seeing just how deep this rabbit hole goes. A well-crafted fantasy is practically indistinguishable from religion. Since we're now thoroughly derailed from the OP but in an entertaining way, lets concentrate on eating. What else have some of you guys stuffed into your mouths?

Blowfish? Bark? Grass? Fried ants? .. or ... even lentil soup? The latter is the worst known to FIRE!

PS: Sorry OP, you're gonna have to start over on this one ... maybe pick a better title ;-)

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by black_son_of_gray » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:29 pm

Some of the more exotic things that come to mind for me: I've had puffin, kangaroo, crickets, ptarmigan, bear, rattlesnake, tripe, tongue, natto.

The only thing I've purchased but been unable to eat was hakarl. It smelled so foul I just couldn't do it.

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Dragline
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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by Dragline » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:34 pm

Well, we could discuss the horse meat in Uzbekistan or the inordinately large shrimp with heads and eyes looking at you in Indonesia. I once also ate an entire intact duck's liver in France. Simply marinated and broiled. If you go to Segovia in Spain, you can go to Europe's oldest restaurant, the Meson de Candido. The specialty there is suckling pig. Complete with the face and the hair on the knuckles.

In 2015 I went to the Russian Embassy for the 70th anniversary of VE day. They had a number of historical tables set up, one of which was the "typical ration of the Russian soldier in World War II." It was basically some brown mushy rice-like porridge and a small skewer with an olive, cheese and a mystery meat. And a shot of vodka. I got a sense of why the movie "Enemy at the Gates" was a pretty accurate depiction of the Eastern Front in that war.

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Re: Intelligent design as a resource

Post by Campitor » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:22 am

South American cuisine my parents made me eat: cow tongue (taste good if done right); tripe in peanut sauce which takes forever to chew and not particularly appetizing; rice mixed with blood stuffed into pork intestine and boiled and served in a blood rice soup - it's extremely bitter and I hated it.

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