Travel and Hospitality: Rise of the hyper consumer

[Forskaren]

I have traveled quite a bit myself, both in work and spare time. I am starting to feel diminishing returns, that most places got more in common than differences. If there are real differences, it is often in a bad way, such as crime, poverty and dictatorship. Traveling as a tourist also means that you actually doesn’t learn much, even if some people like to claim that you do. Confirmation bias of their own choices probably.

I noticed that many people totally ignore both the environment and their private economy when traveling for “fun”. It seems to be much about getting the right pictures on Facebook and showing that they can burn at least $10000 by taking the whole family to the other side of the earth, just to do the standard sun, bath and drinking. Does the Travel and Hospitality industry got some kind of free pass compared to other ways of spending money? It is kind of strange that some travelers think they are rebels, when they are feeding some of the biggest corporations on the planet with money.

Is it more people that start feeling diminishing returns from traveling? Can it be worth to spend vacation within a range of a couple of hours from your home, so that you don’t have to pay double to have somewhere to live?

[Did]

When I worked I was so exhausted I just spent holiday time locally. The thought of having to travel and spending the cash was too much. It took a couple of weeks just to begin to wind down. Now Im out we slow travel - no taxis and few hotels for us. We want to see the world very slowly and frugally. It's rubbish in a hotel in a tourist hotspot anyway.

[saving-10-years]

I sort of agree having just done three weeks in Italy (from UK so not as extreme an expense as from US). For DH and myself we were travelling to some familiar cities (familar from travels there in the 1980s) and we were struck by the way that tourists were behaving. Neither of had really believed that people used selfie sticks until we arrived in Rome. Some people seemed to be walking through sites looking at the whole thing through a small rear view mirror. There was also markedly regional difference (compared with 1980s) in food, accents, TV, the way in which things were set up and run both between UK and Italy and between parts of Italy. DH got more out of travel this time as in the past twenty years I have done a lot of travel for work so fed up with it.

This trip was pretty frugal, we are both retired and self-catered, shopping in local markets and supermarkets and spent £463.94 over 16 days for three people (which included some eating out, most expensive meal was 50 euros, and also a heck of a lot of gelati (over 100 euros to feed our daily, or two a day habit). DS (19) who up until now has been unable to eat eggs and dairy (severe food allergy and just finished his de-sensitisation) got more out of the trip than either of us, simply in being in big cities and amongst strangers in a stange land, trying new foods (very new to him). Its a life experience for him although we were still definitely tourists. Thankfully we were tourists who were not going to great expense to be shepherded from one place to another with earphones listening to the guide and moving on with the herd from one 'must-see' to another.

I don't get any more pleasure from over-paying when visiting Venice than I if visiting in Cardiff (UK). Can't imagine anyone here would either. Researching the place but also being open to surprises is the joy of travel (whether for business or tourism), the good thing about being retired is that you have time for that research.

[slsdly]

It never really did much for me. I can only understand the pleasure others feel when travelling by likening it to reading a book, writing a sweet piece of code, or trying a new vegetable. Then it makes sense why people do it. It has been fairly consistent that the only trips I really loved are when I was making a connection with another person (which I can do anywhere). While I find the broad societal addiction to travel disturbing, I prefer to leave well alone. If only the uber-travellers would give me the same courtesy when they find out I am not as interested in it as them. For people who scream about how open minded and more accepting of others it makes you, they demonstrate a disturbing lack of self awareness at that moment.

[7Wannabe5]

I think the desire to travel is directly tied to the fact that human being are clever, omnivorous scavengers, out-breeders and traders. Just the simple act of adding the location of a desirable resource to our brain map makes us feel like we are wealthier, healthier and happier. In Victorian times, shortly before Freud, psychiatrists routinely prescribed "novel sights" for the treatment of depression. When human beings huddle in a cave for an extended period, they become physiologically depressed. Moving about in the sunshine , making new observations and gathering information and resources perks us up towards the manic. I think most people need some mix of travel/cave. Once you recognize this you can better "travel" without the expense of "travel." For instance, instead of flying to Italy and taking photos of various sights and trying new foods, you can go out to your backyard with a guidebook and try to identify and take pictures of the species of plants growing there. Then determine the location of the closest ethnic market you haven't ever visited, and ride there on your bike with $2 in your pocket with which you can buy something you have never eaten. Then type the name of the one edible species you found in your backyard and the new thing you bought at the market into your search engine to find a recipe to try that evening.

My lifestyle is really weird at the moment, because I recently entered into trial/temporary monogamous contract with an affluent frugal man who travels half the week for corporate purposes, so a couple nights/week, I am staying at expensive hotels that are within a long bike ride (20 miles) from my own bed (large pile of down comforters I bought for $1 each.) Apparently, there is some sort of semi-infinite progression with platinum member hotel bonus points whereby even if you use points you get more points and also free gifts. So, some mornings if I wake up and put on my bright,fresh omnivorous scavenger eyes, I might go out and gather "free" dandelion greens and pallets, and other mornings I might gather "free" coffee pods, shampoo, and buffet breakfast. I can hopefully keep gathering "free" dandelion greens for another 30 years, but I fear that my days of even vaguely qualifying for the position of travel-concubine may be drawing to a close, so I must heed the advice of Herrick and "Gather ye trial-size hotel shampoo while ye may."

[BRUTE]

there's a good article on ribbonfarm.com about travel/movement. brute can't find it right now.

the basic idea is that the human mind always requires new input or "progress" in order to be satisfied. in static people, this means advancing a career, learning a skill, growing a business, lifestyle inflation, raises, making new friends or deepening relationships. somehow, the mind needs "new" or "more" (which is almost the same to the human mind).

when traveling or moving, the "new" is a constant, so there is less need for any of the traditional, abstract "movements" for the mind.

[7Wannabe5]

BRUTE said: somehow, the mind needs "new" or "more" (which is almost the same to the human mind).

I think "better" would also apply. This desire for new/more/better can also be totally nerd-dorkified through activities such as bird-watching, metal detecting or poly-amory.

[ducknalddon]

I think "better" would also apply. This desire for new/more/better can also be totally nerd-dorkified through activities such as bird-watching, metal detecting or poly-amory.

Substitution seems to be a key strategy of ERE, my neighbour was out playing golf this afternoon, I'm pretty sure I got the same benefits that he did from the long walk I took.

[jacob]

This is/was an old pet peeve of mine and I came to the same conclusions as the OP.

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/someb ... to-me.html
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/trave ... broad.html
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/trave ... th-it.html
(also read the comments)

However, while I no longer enjoy travel (having gone through the same evolution as the OP), I also realize, like what slsdly notes, that people enjoy input in different ways. In particular, that some feel as much pleasure travelling or given the tourist treatment of the local food and sights as I get from reading a good book or vice versa. Indeed, you could easily convince me to stay in the bus during a tour with my nose in a book. It's not that I haven't tried a lot to enjoy travel, but much like techno parties, I have eventually had to accept that I'm never really going to enjoy it, so why go through the torture.

That said, it likely also depends on what the goal of the travel is. For someone who professes to hate travel I have done a lot of miles. It just might be that I just don't care that much about "the food, the history, and the culture", i.e., the standard-fare and thus what most canned travel is supposed to be about. I mean, I don't exactly take advantage of the Chicago food or cultural scene, at all, whatsoever, ... so why would I need to put myself through TSA followed by an airborne tincan to go and non-enjoy ditto somewhere else? Conversely, I do enjoy relocating to a new place and integrating into that---my rule of thumb is to go sufficiently deep to having to pay taxes in that place.

Finally, there's definitely some status seeking going on in which people try to outperform each other while patting themselves on the back for focusing on experiences instead of crass stuff. That much is abundantly clear. Facebook likely made that quest a whole lot worse than it already was. OTOH, there are also many people (still) who almost never leave, nor have left, the county they were born in. This can result in an extremely myopic perspective and insofar we're not talking about a charter vacation to some closed off resort, travel would be good for them.

[GandK]

In particular, that some feel as much pleasure travelling or given the local food and sights the tourist treatment as I get from reading a good book or vice versa. Indeed, you could easily convince me to stay in the bus during a tour with my nose in a book. It's not that I haven't tried a lot to enjoy travel, but much like techno parties, I have eventually had to accept that I'm never really going to enjoy it, so why go through the torture.

+1, and LOL.

My favorite form of travel is books. Physical travel, I mainly do because G wants it or because I dislike the current weather conditions in Ohio.

[SilverElephant]

A big thing right now with the 30ish aflluent young professional crowd in Germany is to take a year off and backpack around the world, mostly southeast Asia, the Philippines, Indonesia and Australia.

While this seems to be more "flaneur"-style than the traditional tourism embraced by their parent's generation, I'm struck by how many of those I know who've done this don't take the experience to its logical conclusion - namely, that if you can live out of your backpack for one whole year, why is it that, after coming back, you revert back to BMWs, expensive restaurants, the compulsory house w/ 40-year morgage etc.? There's a period of a few days (not even weeks) after coming back where the individuals in question profess their changed world views as a result of having witnessed poverty in Asia or something, followed rather quickly by the aforementioned regression to old pattern.

After I finished my university degree, I had about six months where I was still living in my very cheap student apartment. In these six months I lived on about 500-600 € a month while doing whatever I wanted. The pure freedom of not having to look at clocks all the time and being able to pack up at a moment's notice to visit friends or family somewhere in Germany or France, getting up according to my own rhythm, reading etc. is still the driving force behind my desire to be FI as soon as possible, i.e. pure determination. It's not diminishing, either. Hence why I'm completely baffled as to why people who have ostensibly gone through something very similar do not come to the same conclusions.

I concur with the most of the posts so far in that I seem to derive the same pleasure from books or writing a really neat piece of code - and experiencing the journey to being able to writing it (i.e. learning new paradigms, ideas, the trial-and-error process ...) -, or having figured out a really great way to optimize some part of my cost structure as others do from traveling (and spending money).

[El Duderino]

After I finished my university degree, I had about six months where I was still living in my very cheap student apartment. In these six months I lived on about 500-600 € a month while doing whatever I wanted. The pure freedom of not having to look at clocks all the time and being able to pack up at a moment's notice to visit friends or family somewhere in Germany or France, getting up according to my own rhythm, reading etc. is still the driving force behind my desire to be FI as soon as possible, i.e. pure determination. It's not diminishing, either. Hence why I'm completely baffled as to why people who have ostensibly gone through something very similar do not come to the same conclusions.

Great point! I had a similar experience after I graduated from university. The job market was horrendous and I basically stopped even trying and that was my 'summer of George' in a lot of ways that I've been trying to get back to over the past 15+ years.

[BRUTE]

.. some stuff ..

brute believes a lot of it boils down to the definition of "travel". brute also hates security theater, being x-rayed, metal-detected, taking off his belt, and sitting in tiny metal tubes for 10 hours straight with a group of loud teenagers.

the "integrating into the place" that jacob speaks of is exactly what brute enjoys, too. he just seems to spend a shorter time doing that on average than jacob.

brute thinks there's some kind of "mind melt" going on when integrating even superficially into "local culture". it's not like brute volunteers at orphanages or visits the theater. it's more about getting coffee, going to a restaurant, buying groceries, saying hello and goodbye..

interestingly this is also pretty much how brute related to his culture of origin. while obviously steeped in it, he never volunteered at orphanages and went to the theater only under threat of violence.

so in a way, just like brute was never "one of them" even in his home place, he also never tries to become "one of them" in any of the places he visits. yet he enjoys mind-melting on a superficial level tremendously.

some humans call this "slow travel", but to brute it seems more like "serial relocation".

[enigmaT120]

I've only ever traveled for my job, and that rarely. I don't really like it but never have time to get out and see much. Well OK I wandered around downtown Fresno for a couple of hours. Nothing going on except cop cars all over. Blech.

I get the magazine Adventure Cycling, and those stories do make me want to go on extended bicycle tours (Hence the Salsa Fargo, too) but I don't really need to go to Patagonia to do it. There are many places in Oregon I've never seen, and when I'm done with that... I've never seen the Cascades in Northern WA, and the Rockies (and the Continental Divide Mountain Bike Trail) aren't too far away.

The closest I come to wanting to travel really happens around February when I'm starting to get sick of the constant dark and rain, and want to go to my birth place area in Northern AZ and UT, maybe New Mexico.

[Dragline]

I've traveled a lot for work, and all over the world, and so generally do not find it a very attractive way to spend free time. When I do go somewhere, its usually to visit someone or to go somewhere where most people do not go because I really dislike crowds and lines (queues).

I actually prefer taking road trips in the US to flying to other countries. The anthropology of US roadside attractions is fascinating and amusing.

[George the original one]

The closest I come to wanting to travel really happens around February when I'm starting to get sick of the constant dark and rain, and want to go to my birth place area in Northern AZ and UT, maybe New Mexico.

You really should take up winter steelhead fishing as a cure for the winter blahs.

[George the original one]

I actually prefer taking road trips in the US to flying to other countries. The anthropology of US roadside attractions is fascinating and amusing.

Road trips are vastly underrated, IMO. They are one way to really understand the expanse of a continent, how vast it really is. Key to a good roadtrip, though, is to have the freedom to wander and not be on a schedule.

[namesarehard]

I actually prefer taking road trips in the US to flying to other countries. The anthropology of US roadside attractions is fascinating and amusing.

Road trips are vastly underrated, IMO. They are one way to really understand the expanse of a continent, how vast it really is. Key to a good roadtrip, though, is to have the freedom to wander and not be on a schedule.

Totally agree with the freedom to wander and not be on a schedule. Being unemployed for a few months after spending a year working abroad was one of the best experiences of my life. It let me fully take in the country I had lived in for a year, as well as the surrounding ones I ventured into. I don't think I got a full experience while I was working due to stress, schedules, etc.

[wood]

(...) I'm struck by how many of those I know who've done this don't take the experience to its logical conclusion - namely, that if you can live out of your backpack for one whole year, why is it that, after coming back, you revert back to BMWs, expensive restaurants, the compulsory house w/ 40-year morgage etc.? There's a period of a few days (not even weeks) after coming back where the individuals in question profess their changed world views as a result of having witnessed poverty in Asia or something, followed rather quickly by the aforementioned regression to old pattern.

Such a good point. I did volunteer work in Africa for a few months, staying with a host family in the slums. I had already done a few years of office work following my university degree. It was when I came back that I discovered ERE and started working towards it.

Travelling doesn't cut it for me. I like to relocate for atleast a couple months.

Me and DW are currently interacting with alot of travellers, couchsurfers, exchange students and the like from offering some of our living space for free and renting out a room. There is a huge crowd out there in Europe consisting of young people who like to travel and backpack for different reasons (studies, "cultural exchange", sex, work etc) but I'm yet to meet someone who does it for a lifestyle. Size of budget varies greatly, but they all say the same words when asked what they are looking for: fun, meeting new people, fun, party, work, fun. I guess its a way for many to express their youth as well.

[enigmaT120]

I actually prefer taking road trips in the US to flying to other countries. The anthropology of US roadside attractions is fascinating and amusing.

Road trips are vastly underrated, IMO. They are one way to really understand the expanse of a continent, how vast it really is. Key to a good roadtrip, though, is to have the freedom to wander and not be on a schedule.

They would be better on a motorcycle and with camping, but even better yet I think on a bicycle. Lots of mostly un-paved routes around the place, those are where I will look.

Oh -- I don't mind fishing, but since I don't eat fish I can't justify putting them through it. Assuming I actually caught one, of course.