The Scold

[Ego]

Upcoming New Yorker.... Ouch!

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/ ... rugal-guru

[Dragline]

I thought it wasn't half bad, all things considered. Makes me wonder though if it will inspire a hoard of New Yorkers to decamp to Longmont, CO, in a quest for nirvana the way they used to migrate to Vermont.

And good for him that he's making bank with it -- that's what I call the "paradox of thrift".

[The_Bowme]

I found it an interesting view. MMM's blog personality is very upbeat, and there is a certainly a tongue-in-cheek scolding in it. But I like knowing he really gets rubbed the wrong way by the bad choices people make. Filling the landfills and the atmosphere with crap that makes us less happy is genuinely bad! Her approach seems like it may have deserved a bit of the glowering it got, "haha, so silly of me to blatantly ignore the points you've forcefully made publicly and pay to drive an SUV in the pay-to-play express lane, inadvertently contributing a bit extra to global warming. So Manhattan of me!"

Normally you just laugh with the person making that joke, but if they came out to interview you about your explicit rejection of that lifestyle, why not be crotchety? I know I play nice on a day to day basis with this stuff, but if they're interviewing you, why not?

I have contradictory thoughts when reading something like this: "Oh no, the secret is out. Everyone will quit working and there will be no one left to lend to and live off the interest! I missed the boat!" At the same time, "Man, they are really not getting it, or doing a fair job of representing the point of view!"

I will say his apparent focus on efficiency would drive me a bit crazy as a member of the household. Efficiency is great and all, but as an end in itself, it's not that inspiring. But I wonder how representative a sample that was. Still, everyone needs a hobby, and the New Yorker's the one who flew out to Methmont to interview MMM, not vice versa, so let the guy be eccentric!

[jennypenny]

It could have been worse. The article had a strange vibe though, like the author was some pith-helmet-wearing anthropologist observing an anti-consumerist in his natural habitat.

Ballsy of MMM to come out like that. Lucky for him, no one reads the New Yorker anymore.

[1taskaday]

I thought it was a fair enough article from a person that does not live the frugal lifestyle.

I thought it was well enough researched as well.

Surely we have all heard this "tone" and comments IRL as we often spout our own opinons on frugality,happiness and waste.

i think it would have been dissappointing if the journalist came across as a "convert" or a "groupie".

I did cringe a bit about the use of the "dictatorial" reference,I am sure Simi just raises her eyes to heaven and lets a lot of it over her head.(like most wives do).
I suppose the journalist could have put forward more,the idea that it takes equal committment from both partners to make the lifestyle work.
i think this would have made it more "female" friendly to read.

But I suppose it was MMM he was interviewing ...

[GandK]

I will say his apparent focus on efficiency would drive me a bit crazy as a member of the household.

Me. Too. That was the first thing I thought when I read it. It's one thing to self-optimize and to show others what works for you. But optimizing others? No way. Even (especially?) if they're living with you. Happiness in relationships trumps efficiency for me.

[luxagraf]

I thought that was a good piece, esp given the new yorker's penchant for doing hatchet jobs on anyone more than a few block west of 6th ave.

And I remain impressed with MMM's apparently ability to remain optimistic in the face of the kind of ugly internet feedback I imagine he receives.

[FBeyer]

With the right stoic fortitude he should actually relish in it. The worse his 'enemies' thinks he is, the better he is doing.

[Ego]

It could have been worse. The article had a strange vibe though, like the author was some pith-helmet-wearing anthropologist observing an anti-consumerist in his natural habitat.

Ballsy of MMM to come out like that. Lucky for him, no one reads the New Yorker anymore.

I was cringing as he was commenting on MMMs relationship with his son, siblings, parents and spouse. I guess the movement is getting big enough that the focus is shifting from ideas (FI, ERE, saving, frugality....) and life philosophies to personalities. In other words, it is getting very personal.

Jacob is smart to avoid these interviews. Any lifestyle that veers from the average can be made to look very bad in the hands of a journalist with malintent.

[Slevin]

Jacob is smart to avoid these interviews. Any lifestyle that veers from the average can be made to look very bad in the hands of a journalist with malintent.

Jacob wasn't 100% spared from this article though. Kind of funny that the short section on ERE is now almost completely incorrect (as Jacob now lives in a house and his most recent "career" was as a quant). It will be interesting to see if the site spikes in views/new members right around the beginning of March.

[Gilberto de Piento]

I thought it was a good article. Nothing in there that made me think any less of MMM.

I always cringe a little at articles about the early retirement in mainstream media, though not for the usual reasons. These articles bother me because I like this being "my" thing and I don't want it overrun and co-opted by corporations. This outcome isn't likely but it still concerns me. I also worry a little about my journal being outed.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1. Writers are like photographers in that it's important to remember that a skillful one can present his or her subject however he or she chooses: Nobel prize winners can be made to look mentally deficient; the mentally deficient can be made to look as wise as saints.

2. 1 being true, it's very difficult to know what went on between MMM and this reporter. As mainstrem media presentations of early retirement go, his Vox piece was good, and his shorter profile on New York magazine's website was similar to this one--skeptical, sarcastic, unimpressed. The common denominator is self-presentation = good, coverage = bad.

3. My guess is that MMM, like a lot of his readers and readers of this blog[1], is not innately skillful at things like office politicking, social niceties, or communicating within another person's experience. One of the nice things about this community and the wider ER community is the sense of understanding that comes from bringing together many people who feel this way. However, it can be extremely bewildering and even threatening to an outsider to happen upon a whole group of people taking for granted things that you have never even contemplated before (e.g. it's foolish to own a car, one needs a scant few hundred thousand to "retire," most consumers are mindlessly wasting their lives). The negative reaction of the writer of this New Yorker piece is not surprising, and not all that different from the negative reaction everyone here has experienced at one time or another when explaining [2] ERE to a friend or relative.

4. The lack of a social-betterment dimension definitely hurt MMM here. The standard coastal view of the rat race is: yeah, I know I ought to be doing something better/more meaningful with my time, but I just can't afford it. Seeing a guy who can afford it spending his time flaming his detractors and smoking weed was never going to go over well.[3]

5. That said, my guess is that MMM could have done a better job working this reporter.

5. I beamed when I read the name Jacob Lund Fisker in the New Yorker! I actually think Jacob, Ph.D., intellectual, polymath, would make a much better and more sympathetic profile subject than MMM, and quite possibly would have a better rapport with your average NYC-based journalist once they broke the ice. He would also be just as easy to savage, belittle, humiliate, etc.

6. The value of MMM or ERE is almost entirely in the example of a life successfully lived outside of normative expectations, not in offering a paint-by-numbers approach to one's own life.

[1]INTJs really
[2]attempting to explain
[3]which is not to say these examples weren't cherry-picked

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Normally you just laugh with the person making that joke, but if they came out to interview you about your explicit rejection of that lifestyle, why not be crotchety? I know I play nice on a day to day basis with this stuff, but if they're interviewing you, why not?

Because it's alienating! 90% of the readers of the article will come away with the idea that MMM is a kook and that his ideas can safely be discarded. If you're going to take the time to let a New Yorker writer profile you (and they don't profile people who don't agree to be written about) then it's in your interest to play the game with them.

Say you're ERed and you get curious about a profession. You write a resume, send it off, and get called in for an interview. The first question is, why should I hire you?" You say, "Well, you shouldn't really! I'm financially independent so I'll never prioritize this company's success over my own happiness, and it makes no difference to my livelihood whether I get the job or not. Furthermore I abhor corporate BS and the nonsense that goes on in most offices, but I'm almost certainly as intelligent and competent as anyone employed here, and probably moreso. So it really would be in your best interest to hire me."

It sounds fun, but it doesn't advance your goals.

[Sclass]

$400Gs raised my eyebrows.

Stoner huh? wow.

[JamesR]

The article made me feel tense as hell for some reason, definitely has an underlying negative tone against MMM, paints him in a negative or average way I felt. I didn't come out feeling happy for MMM, and I'm not happy that the article manipulated me in that direction. Extremely weird.

[Did]

400k a year hey. How do you make 400k a year out of a bunch of tightwads. That stunned me.

He seems genuine though, and inspires many. So good luck to him!

[FBeyer]

400k a year hey. How do you make 400k a year out of a bunch of tightwads. That stunned me.

He seems genuine though, and inspires many. So good luck to him!

But he's making that from affiliated links isnt he? Not from the frugal viewers directly.
I'm just sitting here contemplating how to make 5000$ per year on a passive non-investment related business. Maybe I should bring out the suppressed author within and polish up on my writing skills?

[Did]

I would guess they buy stuff from links. He gets a cut. I was just joking that ERE types spend less overall cf say adventure travel.

[Gilberto de Piento]

There's a response from MMM here: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcom ... on-mmm/50/

[jennypenny]

Interesting.

It's funny how much of that thread is about the Magic the Gathering cards. It's involves his kid, but it's the same quandary we all face regarding social interaction and costs. MMM worked it out, but we all know the best way to avoid expenses we feel are unnecessary is to host the gathering ourselves. When others host, you can offer suggestions to lower the cost, but ultimately, if you want to maintain the friendship you have to respect the wishes of the other person as well. Friendships come with a certain amount of buy in. Good friendships are worth it, for kids and adults. (sorry, OT)