A friend of mine recently joined a network marketing program called Yor Health. It is a supplement program.
Like other systems Amway, herbalife, etc, I know that you are expected to make an initial purchase and to keep earning either you or people below you need to make purchases every month.
Obviously my friend and his group say it is easy, but I wonder if it really is easy and I'm curious about the price and quality of the products.
My friend has lost a few kilos (10) after using it for about 2 months and they showed me photos of two others in the group who where there and had also lost a lot of weight, but how do I really know if that was due to the products they are promoting or because they started exercising or eating better in general?
I am going to go to an event that is supposedly training on Saturday to learn more about the business side of it, but I was told that there are two options.
1. try the product and if I like it and 3 or more friends sign up I get free product every month at least 3 people below me buy it. I suppose if it really is a good product that could be a good option, but in this option there is no income.
2. Buy a set of products one time for approx 500 USD to sign up under the "business" plan and need to have at least approx 200 USD in sales (either my purchase and/or other people who sign up below me) a month to continue to be active. while active I'd get a % of sales paid directly to my bank account every week.
I have many questions, but considering how low salaries are in jobs here (typical 5000 pesos working 6 days a week), I admit I'm seriously considering giving it a try.
How hard is it really to get that kind of sales referring people I know to product presentations? Would it be as difficult as I imagine to recover that initial cost?
Have any of you tried Yor Health or Herbalife products? Do they really help?
Many years ago (I think back in 1994 or 95, I had been approached by people from Amway and I wasn't convinced. I really couldn't imagine myself selling soap and toothpaste.
Do any of you have any experience in network marketing? It has a shady reputation. I know many people will immediately scream fraud or scam as soon as someone hears it is that kind of system so I'm more interested in real experience not just "some asked me to try it and I ran as soon as I heard that I needed to buy a membership or buy some product".
They told me that this product is relatively new (about 3 years) so I wouldn't be in an already saturated program like in the case of herbalife which seems about everyone sells already.
I might just try it to see if the diet results are real. I could lose 5-10 kilos, but the business side of it I guess is a bigger concern. I could use another source of income even if it is "only" another 200 USD a month if this kind of thing really works, but taking 500 USD out of my savings to try it (make money) makes me very nervous!
Should I try network marketing?
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secretwealth
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I know these network marketing programs are really, really popular in Hispanic communities. That was one of the drivers behind the bullish call on Herbalife a few weeks back.
When I first graduated college and was looking for a job, I was almost lured into a couple of network marketing schemes. And that's what they really were: schemes. Yes, if you make enough sales you can make some money, but it's going to be a very low hourly income if you factor in how much work you need to put in to get anything. Or so it was with the schemes I was involved with. Herbalife and the newer ones may be different, but from what I've heard it really isn't.
Another important issue for you to consider is being an expat; are the natives going to trust you to buy from you on a one-to-one basis? Maybe--my own experiences in living outside of America were less promising, but Mexico is probably different.
When I first graduated college and was looking for a job, I was almost lured into a couple of network marketing schemes. And that's what they really were: schemes. Yes, if you make enough sales you can make some money, but it's going to be a very low hourly income if you factor in how much work you need to put in to get anything. Or so it was with the schemes I was involved with. Herbalife and the newer ones may be different, but from what I've heard it really isn't.
Another important issue for you to consider is being an expat; are the natives going to trust you to buy from you on a one-to-one basis? Maybe--my own experiences in living outside of America were less promising, but Mexico is probably different.
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Christopherjart
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You both have good questions. I'm glad I asked it gives me more things to ask on Saturday.
I really don't know how good I'd be at sales. When I was supposedly working as academic coordinator at one place they had me go me prospects and I did sell some classes, but in that case being a native speaker helped convince them even though I wasn't going to be their teacher. I doubt being an ex-pat is really a disadvantage either. I think they are more likely to mistrust South Americans than me.
I imagine that on a per hour basis income would not be high, but would it be lower than a 5000 peso job working 42-48 hours a week o a per hour basis. I make very little per hour on sales of art and graphic design online too. Perhaps I'll just be stuck teaching until I retire, but if I calculate a per hour teaching including time spent going to and returning from a class I only make between 80 and 100 per hour from the 250-300/hour of charged class time.
I really have no idea how good or bad I'd be selling directly to someone. My art and design sales are to people in other countries who see my work on a product and buy it so it is completely different.
A few minutes ago I got a call from someone who got my number from a list at a job fair I went to on Tuesday. I'd like to find something part time for regular income and continue to teach in the late afternoon and Saturdays. Well the job was supposedly to be an administrative assistant and could I go to an interview on Monday and please bring a huge list of requirements including photos (for badge I guess) I asked about the position and no, they are looking for sales people to promote accounts. I know someone who does that and much of the pay was based on how well they sold and commissions were paid months later. How it went from "auxiliar administrativo" to "socio de ventas" must be an interesting story.
I asked for a number to call to confirm that I have everything and the call ended
I really don't know how good I'd be at sales. When I was supposedly working as academic coordinator at one place they had me go me prospects and I did sell some classes, but in that case being a native speaker helped convince them even though I wasn't going to be their teacher. I doubt being an ex-pat is really a disadvantage either. I think they are more likely to mistrust South Americans than me.
I imagine that on a per hour basis income would not be high, but would it be lower than a 5000 peso job working 42-48 hours a week o a per hour basis. I make very little per hour on sales of art and graphic design online too. Perhaps I'll just be stuck teaching until I retire, but if I calculate a per hour teaching including time spent going to and returning from a class I only make between 80 and 100 per hour from the 250-300/hour of charged class time.
I really have no idea how good or bad I'd be selling directly to someone. My art and design sales are to people in other countries who see my work on a product and buy it so it is completely different.
A few minutes ago I got a call from someone who got my number from a list at a job fair I went to on Tuesday. I'd like to find something part time for regular income and continue to teach in the late afternoon and Saturdays. Well the job was supposedly to be an administrative assistant and could I go to an interview on Monday and please bring a huge list of requirements including photos (for badge I guess) I asked about the position and no, they are looking for sales people to promote accounts. I know someone who does that and much of the pay was based on how well they sold and commissions were paid months later. How it went from "auxiliar administrativo" to "socio de ventas" must be an interesting story.
I asked for a number to call to confirm that I have everything and the call ended
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George the original one
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Well, it does not sound like you would enjoy sales -- or at least you have convinced yourself that you probably would not. On the other hand, learning something about how to sell things is a valuable skill, even if it is not your life's calling. There's a lot of truth to the old adage that everything involving persuasion is essentially sales.
The problem I see here is that you have to buy stuff that you may not want. There is generally nothing wrong with these products per se, except that a consumer can usually buy the equivalent for less elsewhere.
If you do decide to go to that meeting, don't bring any money or your checkbook! And you might want to wait a month or two to see how your friend actually does with it.
The problem I see here is that you have to buy stuff that you may not want. There is generally nothing wrong with these products per se, except that a consumer can usually buy the equivalent for less elsewhere.
If you do decide to go to that meeting, don't bring any money or your checkbook! And you might want to wait a month or two to see how your friend actually does with it.
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bike_the_world
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For what it's worth, my opinion is don't do it! If it makes you uncomfortable having friends coercing other friends (you, included) into making purchases they neither want nor need, imagine how they will start to view you and the pressure you impose to engage in discomforting purchases going forward. The yuck factor with these schemes is too high for me and much of that stems from the squandering of social capital that is required to make the sales quotas. Friends don't let friends do multi-level marketing...
I've been involved in several network marketing programs through the years. Most of the products are good in all the major companies. Some of the companies have better products than others.
In my own personal experience, it's pretty hard to sell someone something they don't already use. If they don't already take supplements, I think it's hard to convince them they need to start taking supplements. Believe it or not, I think Amway is a great company. But that didn't make me a great distributor for their products.
One thing I have noticed from being involved in the industry is that most of the products are sold on hype and rah rah meetings. It's rare that people buy based on the products alone, and that makes it difficult for someone who is not a rah rah type person (like me) to be successful.
I personally know several people that have been very successful in the industry, but it was not overnight. It was more like decades. They have been in several companies and have developed long standing relationships with their downline groups so that the same people will follow them into the next company and then the next company. They have been successful because they are full steam ahead 24 x 7 and they are like bulldozers. They are willling to agressively promote their companies/opportunities to anyone that is living and breathing. That is why they are so successful. Not everyone believes in products enough to do that. That is the short coming of the industry.
It's not so much about the products. People really buy the opportunity and if they don't make money within a few weeks, they quit. That is reality. It's the ultimate numbers game. You literally have to go through 1,000's of people over decades to find the 4 or 5 people that will help you build a big organization. These are people that share the same motivation and 24 x 7, succeed at all costs, I'll keep going til I make it mentality. Most poeple just don't have that and many who do can't maintain it long enough to be successful in the industry.
In my own personal experience, it's pretty hard to sell someone something they don't already use. If they don't already take supplements, I think it's hard to convince them they need to start taking supplements. Believe it or not, I think Amway is a great company. But that didn't make me a great distributor for their products.
One thing I have noticed from being involved in the industry is that most of the products are sold on hype and rah rah meetings. It's rare that people buy based on the products alone, and that makes it difficult for someone who is not a rah rah type person (like me) to be successful.
I personally know several people that have been very successful in the industry, but it was not overnight. It was more like decades. They have been in several companies and have developed long standing relationships with their downline groups so that the same people will follow them into the next company and then the next company. They have been successful because they are full steam ahead 24 x 7 and they are like bulldozers. They are willling to agressively promote their companies/opportunities to anyone that is living and breathing. That is why they are so successful. Not everyone believes in products enough to do that. That is the short coming of the industry.
It's not so much about the products. People really buy the opportunity and if they don't make money within a few weeks, they quit. That is reality. It's the ultimate numbers game. You literally have to go through 1,000's of people over decades to find the 4 or 5 people that will help you build a big organization. These are people that share the same motivation and 24 x 7, succeed at all costs, I'll keep going til I make it mentality. Most poeple just don't have that and many who do can't maintain it long enough to be successful in the industry.
Here's an example of people not buying things they don't already use.
Ameriplan is a discount dental and medical membership plan. Dentists and doctors offer a discount for members of the "plan". Having insurance through my employer, I never wanted to put the plan to the test.
I thought the plan was a no brainer because a lot of people don't have insurance, but I had a difficult time explaining the benefits to people because I had no first hand experience.
Ameriplan is a discount dental and medical membership plan. Dentists and doctors offer a discount for members of the "plan". Having insurance through my employer, I never wanted to put the plan to the test.
I thought the plan was a no brainer because a lot of people don't have insurance, but I had a difficult time explaining the benefits to people because I had no first hand experience.
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jacob
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Short answer: No.
Long answer: By the time you're invited to join the network, the market is probably already saturated. A network can only support so many sellers in a given market of buyers and the probability that you're not one of the first to join any given network is large. Also, many MLM people are their own best customers. It may make sense if you already use the product because you can buy at wholesale prices, but don't expect a lot of customers willing to buy.
I think the best suggestion above was to wait a few months and see how your friend does first. If they're still doing good, then reconsider. Until then, wait and see.
Long answer: By the time you're invited to join the network, the market is probably already saturated. A network can only support so many sellers in a given market of buyers and the probability that you're not one of the first to join any given network is large. Also, many MLM people are their own best customers. It may make sense if you already use the product because you can buy at wholesale prices, but don't expect a lot of customers willing to buy.
I think the best suggestion above was to wait a few months and see how your friend does first. If they're still doing good, then reconsider. Until then, wait and see.
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Christopherjart
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He started in October. (to me that's recent) He said the other day that it is now his main source of income, but I really don't know how much or how many hours a day he's putting into it. I do know that he lost 10 kilos in two months
as far as saturation of the market is concerned. I was told that there are approx 60 people promoting their products in mexico city and the surrounding area of the metropolis. That the company started selling in Mexico about 3 years ago.
Not very many compared to Herbalife which is extremely saturated (and has been around for quite a long time) I don't know if 60-70 representatives for a population of around 20 million people is high or low. I agree that for most people the product is just too expensive and many of those who could afford it would not be interested or are already taking something from GNC or one of the many other providers.
I have been thinking about the yuck factor and the rah rah. I definitely don't want to coerce people to use something I can't personally recommend. If a hard sell is required then it would be best for me to either go to the first option of just trying it for myself and only casually recommend (soft sell) and see if I can get free product or just forget it and keep looking for other opportunities.
Thanks everyone for the comments especially about your own personal experiences. It has helped put this into perspective and has helped me think of more questions to ask.
as far as saturation of the market is concerned. I was told that there are approx 60 people promoting their products in mexico city and the surrounding area of the metropolis. That the company started selling in Mexico about 3 years ago.
Not very many compared to Herbalife which is extremely saturated (and has been around for quite a long time) I don't know if 60-70 representatives for a population of around 20 million people is high or low. I agree that for most people the product is just too expensive and many of those who could afford it would not be interested or are already taking something from GNC or one of the many other providers.
I have been thinking about the yuck factor and the rah rah. I definitely don't want to coerce people to use something I can't personally recommend. If a hard sell is required then it would be best for me to either go to the first option of just trying it for myself and only casually recommend (soft sell) and see if I can get free product or just forget it and keep looking for other opportunities.
Thanks everyone for the comments especially about your own personal experiences. It has helped put this into perspective and has helped me think of more questions to ask.
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steelerfan
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In the book, Jacob said that the people that are accepted into a good school are the same people that don't need to go to that school because they would be a success regardless. Very true... And so it is with sales and in particular network marketing. If you one of the 1-2% of the population that can do the hard sell then you can be successful. It wouldn't even matter what the product is. Make no mistake, MLM is a hard sell as the product you are selling is the business opportunity to people that will for the most part be ill prepared and ill capitalized to work the opportunity. The product is not the soap or vitamins.
The problem with network marketing if you are able to find people to buy your product and "replacement shop" in MLM parlance, they will often want to buy the product immediately. This will require reps to maintain an inventory which is costly and may or not be salable after a while. MLM companies switch out product lines leaving the reps holding the bag. Eventually the low hanging fruit of friends and family will be tapped out and the rep is stuck unless they are able to build up a downline by recruiting more and more reps. This assumes that you get in before the organization is too heavy above you as several levels will get a piece of your profit. This is why although in many cases the productd are good, they are over priced and hard to repeat sell...
If you are a good salesman there are easier things to sell. Most INTJs like I am are not going to gravitate to something like this method even with sales aptitude as we generally are not happy having to grind through and motivate a bunch of non-salesmen into selling product. Of course I did not know that when I did this. Your frinds will buy the first time and eventually they will stop returning your calls. The worst is when family and friend do sign up and they crap out and you are the reason they are out money and worse...
The problem with network marketing if you are able to find people to buy your product and "replacement shop" in MLM parlance, they will often want to buy the product immediately. This will require reps to maintain an inventory which is costly and may or not be salable after a while. MLM companies switch out product lines leaving the reps holding the bag. Eventually the low hanging fruit of friends and family will be tapped out and the rep is stuck unless they are able to build up a downline by recruiting more and more reps. This assumes that you get in before the organization is too heavy above you as several levels will get a piece of your profit. This is why although in many cases the productd are good, they are over priced and hard to repeat sell...
If you are a good salesman there are easier things to sell. Most INTJs like I am are not going to gravitate to something like this method even with sales aptitude as we generally are not happy having to grind through and motivate a bunch of non-salesmen into selling product. Of course I did not know that when I did this. Your frinds will buy the first time and eventually they will stop returning your calls. The worst is when family and friend do sign up and they crap out and you are the reason they are out money and worse...
I'm never happy when a family member or friend joins a MLM because it invariably hurts our relationship. I don't appreciate being ambushed with a sales pitch at social calls, it makes me feel objectified as a revenue source. And, due to urban living my way of rejecting solicitors is brusque. The interaction is uncomfortable for both parties every time.
So, I vote for bringing less of this into the world.
So, I vote for bringing less of this into the world.
Re: Should I try network marketing?
What's your stance on pathological liers in MLM?
Higher than in general population?
Or is it like only "salesmanship" skills?
Many people I met from this world are FI (rather claim to be...).
Somehow they local populate TMs (not only now, this also was the case in the past).
Hmm, it's difficult with flat affect and propensity to be overtalked to show data on MLM to them :-DDD
They mentally masturabte to "gurus" too (I don't think they would be happy with SaltyDroid research).
Higher than in general population?
Or is it like only "salesmanship" skills?
Many people I met from this world are FI (rather claim to be...).
Somehow they local populate TMs (not only now, this also was the case in the past).
Hmm, it's difficult with flat affect and propensity to be overtalked to show data on MLM to them :-DDD
They mentally masturabte to "gurus" too (I don't think they would be happy with SaltyDroid research).
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Alphaville
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Re: Should I try network marketing?
MLM is a bunch of bullshit. A Ponzi/pyramid scheme that somehow is allowed to remain legal.
As for pathological liars in that field:
Once I did freelance work for one such scammer, and when I finished the work he attempted to "pay" me with a stack of photocopies "worth $500! and it will make you rich!" (It was copies of a book: a manual for the scam he practiced.)
Motherfucker.
See, this is why I like formal bureaucratic agreements when it comes to money.
I’m not getting paid in photocopies.
As for pathological liars in that field:
Once I did freelance work for one such scammer, and when I finished the work he attempted to "pay" me with a stack of photocopies "worth $500! and it will make you rich!" (It was copies of a book: a manual for the scam he practiced.)
Motherfucker.
See, this is why I like formal bureaucratic agreements when it comes to money.
I’m not getting paid in photocopies.
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Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Should I try network marketing?
Sounds like the US government and economy.
Re:
Ditto. I hate being hit up to buy this stuff. I finally figured out how to respond and nix future invites: Thank them for thinking of me, say that I am cutting back on expenses and know that understand, and wish them the best in their new business. It goes better than just saying “no” as I was coming across as rejecting them as people.KevinW wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:50 amI'm never happy when a family member or friend joins a MLM because it invariably hurts our relationship. I don't appreciate being ambushed with a sales pitch at social calls, it makes me feel objectified as a revenue source...
So, I vote for bringing less of this into the world.
This stuff is one reason I am thinking about deleting Facebook. Come on, if one observed my participation, she’d know that I am low-maintenance, am in good shape, like to attend free concerts, and am giving stuff away on Freecycle. Does it really seem like I’d want to buy makeup, need some weight loss potion, or be one to buy any frivolous experience or doodad?!
Re: Should I try network marketing?
I have done network marketing before, and I have made some money but I'll say this.
As much crap that those leaders spew onto you, the chances of you making it to the top are way higher if you have money, good network or good marketing skills.
If you don't have any of these, I'd say you're better off starting off a conventional business or self-employment. Because the returns are much better for the time invested.
That whole duplication thing, well, I can tell you for every 10 people you recruit, only 2 will actually go recruiting like you do. And they'll probably be in it for just 2-3 months. If they don't see results, they'll quit. It's not that rosy as what's painted to you.
As much crap that those leaders spew onto you, the chances of you making it to the top are way higher if you have money, good network or good marketing skills.
If you don't have any of these, I'd say you're better off starting off a conventional business or self-employment. Because the returns are much better for the time invested.
That whole duplication thing, well, I can tell you for every 10 people you recruit, only 2 will actually go recruiting like you do. And they'll probably be in it for just 2-3 months. If they don't see results, they'll quit. It's not that rosy as what's painted to you.