Isn't Somalia an example of a no tax country? Obviously there is more to it, but I don't see anyone moving there to avoid the "theft" of taxes and create wealth.
Income Taxes and what is fair
@Jacob
I agree that using a mixed economy with a mixture of political and free market systems causes a lot of problems. However it seems better than the alternative. I wouldn't want to live in a communist country (Cuba) nor an anarchic power vacuum (Somalia).
One way of trying to define "fairness" is to say that we all collectively create a stable society by consenting to behave in a generally cooperative manner. That's what makes this a decent place to live and do business. A billionaire's wealth would be meaningless without the cooperation of most everyone around them. An open question is how much we should be rewarded for that consent. I think there's consensus that it's "fair" to expect a justice system and a national defense. Beyond that it gets hazy.
I agree that using a mixed economy with a mixture of political and free market systems causes a lot of problems. However it seems better than the alternative. I wouldn't want to live in a communist country (Cuba) nor an anarchic power vacuum (Somalia).
One way of trying to define "fairness" is to say that we all collectively create a stable society by consenting to behave in a generally cooperative manner. That's what makes this a decent place to live and do business. A billionaire's wealth would be meaningless without the cooperation of most everyone around them. An open question is how much we should be rewarded for that consent. I think there's consensus that it's "fair" to expect a justice system and a national defense. Beyond that it gets hazy.
In general, I find this Communism vs. freedom being bandied about very regularly. While I agree it is an absolute nightmare to live under Mao or Stalin, this remark is itself becomes quite hollow under scrutiny and is more or less a convenient crutch of comfort for many of us struggling though our lives.
This incident made me re-assess my entire "belief" about "freedom, free-speech", etc.
Mr Blair was heckled first by a lone anti-war protester during his speech. As the man was removed from the conference hall Mr Blair said: "That's fine sir you can make your protest - just thank goodness we live in a democracy."
A second larger protest by pro-hunt demonstrators took place some 15 minutes into Mr Blair's speech and several people were bundled from the room by stewards. Later police arrested three people for disorderly conduct. All three were said to be party members.
Who was Tony Blair kidding there?
Or was he collectively mocking us?
And also, let's not forget Pvt. Manning?
How does that saying go? Your "freedom" ends, where my "nose" begins.
This incident made me re-assess my entire "belief" about "freedom, free-speech", etc.
Mr Blair was heckled first by a lone anti-war protester during his speech. As the man was removed from the conference hall Mr Blair said: "That's fine sir you can make your protest - just thank goodness we live in a democracy."
A second larger protest by pro-hunt demonstrators took place some 15 minutes into Mr Blair's speech and several people were bundled from the room by stewards. Later police arrested three people for disorderly conduct. All three were said to be party members.
Who was Tony Blair kidding there?
Or was he collectively mocking us?
And also, let's not forget Pvt. Manning?
How does that saying go? Your "freedom" ends, where my "nose" begins.
Re: the topic of the thread itself:
@Jacob,
Your definition of 'fair' was intriguing. But if we all agree to live in a 'society', then there has to be a mix of both aspect of fairness (individualist AND collectivist). As an aside, everyone that benefits hugely from public toilets must spare a thought for this small "pleasure" of life and contrast it with rampant, unbridled capitalism/real estate craze, that leave entire cities hopping for a public loo at times (You are all invited to go visit Bangalore sometime)
Your analogy of redistribution is an interesting and acceptable one. But this is true only when we have a hierarchically complex society that is willing to police and ensure that everyone toes the line. It so happens that the senate was able to hammer a deal in the 11th hour, 11th minute, 11th second. But what if they hadn't?
When an "energy" crises brings down the complex machinery (as it hapened in Rome), then the analogy falls apart because this redistribution no longer happens....Hell, tax collection stops happening!
@Chad,
Interesting observation on the topic, as always. Especially liked the percentage points and the joke that went with it.
All,
This is not about tax, but about generally how monetary value erosion has taken place over the last 30 years.
Prof. Elizabeth Warren (Harvard) is an outspoken critic of America's credit economy, which she has linked to the continuing rise in bankruptcy among the middle-class
The impression that people are having frivolous lifestyles and wasting their money....Is it true? You'll know if it is or if it isn't so, once you see the video. HTH. Maybe this is relevant to the tax thread also... Also, it made for chilling viewing on the US health insurance saga.
@Jacob,
Your definition of 'fair' was intriguing. But if we all agree to live in a 'society', then there has to be a mix of both aspect of fairness (individualist AND collectivist). As an aside, everyone that benefits hugely from public toilets must spare a thought for this small "pleasure" of life and contrast it with rampant, unbridled capitalism/real estate craze, that leave entire cities hopping for a public loo at times (You are all invited to go visit Bangalore sometime)
Your analogy of redistribution is an interesting and acceptable one. But this is true only when we have a hierarchically complex society that is willing to police and ensure that everyone toes the line. It so happens that the senate was able to hammer a deal in the 11th hour, 11th minute, 11th second. But what if they hadn't?
When an "energy" crises brings down the complex machinery (as it hapened in Rome), then the analogy falls apart because this redistribution no longer happens....Hell, tax collection stops happening!
@Chad,
Interesting observation on the topic, as always. Especially liked the percentage points and the joke that went with it.
All,
This is not about tax, but about generally how monetary value erosion has taken place over the last 30 years.
Prof. Elizabeth Warren (Harvard) is an outspoken critic of America's credit economy, which she has linked to the continuing rise in bankruptcy among the middle-class
The impression that people are having frivolous lifestyles and wasting their money....Is it true? You'll know if it is or if it isn't so, once you see the video. HTH. Maybe this is relevant to the tax thread also... Also, it made for chilling viewing on the US health insurance saga.