David Collum year in review

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ZAFCorrection
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by ZAFCorrection »

Despite usually coming down hard on the side of freedom of speech, I can't get too worked up about this. The guy is a chemistry professor and peddles conspiracy theories and other truthiness stories. Any halfway decent researcher in the physical sciences would not touch that bullshit.

ETA: I don't understand the mindset of one that can go to work and agonize over the validity of their data interpretation and then come home and YOLO it over black helicopters and area 51.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

ZAFCorrection wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:14 pm
The guy is a chemistry professor and peddles conspiracy theories and other truthiness stories. Any halfway decent researcher in the physical sciences would not touch that bullshit.

ETA: I don't understand the mindset of one that can go to work and agonize over the validity of their data interpretation and then come home and YOLO it over black helicopters and area 51.
Eric Weinstein on Rebel Wisdom

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MpGxOR50sn4

@45:15

“When I hear in the nightly news that Russians are controlling the elections and trying to prop up Donald Trump- is that a conspiracy theory?

When I hear that the Coronavirus is under control and the market falls apart- is that a conspiracy theory?

Where are we in history that conspiracy theorizing is a privilege of the people inside the institutional class? No. That’s incompetent. Conspiracies happen and we need to be looking for them. We need to make a rule that says the next person who uses the epithet “conspiracy theorist”- we need to figure out what conspiracy theory that person has been peddling, because every person inside the Gated Institutional Narrative has been hawking one conspiracy theory or another. It’s time for this technique of using the epithet “conspiracy theorist” as a way to intimidate people, to die.

Huxley wrote a letter to Orwell explaining that it would be easier to control people by convincing them to love their servitude than it would be by keeping a boot on their neck.

Be careful, ZAF, that you do not love your servitude too much.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by ZAFCorrection »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:37 pm
Be careful, ZAF, that you do not love your servitude too much.
Being right about something by accident is worse than being wrong any other way. Just a minute ago I was a broken record in the coronavirus thread, giving people shit about the lack of a complete justification for the popular attitude on lockdown. That was definitely not the orthodox position to take, here or generally, but shitty reasoning should be called out no matter what it is in service of.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I think the desired pejorative is then “unrigorous” and not “conspiracy theorist.”



Edit: With regards to his Twitter post, it shows a lack of sensitivity but I agree that the nudge to the old dude is not in the same category as holding a knee on someone’s neck for 9 minutes. The cops are in a no-win situation at this point- they are out there trying to restore order and are amped up and people are getting in their face while everyone records everything on their smartphone. I would resign too. But that is what happens when the institutions and unions protect the dudes who hold their knee on a guy’s neck for 9 minutes.

Of course politicians and institutions have no intent to solve problems, just stoke flames, distract, divide and conquer. Looks like the useful idiots on Twitter were ready to drop the blade once Collum stuck his neck out.

Another thing that gives me a clue that higher education is doomed is that those Cornell articles have a trigger warning. Maybe this is insensitive of me......but what a bunch of mentally weak pussies. Not hard to brainwash people when being effete of mind is now praised as a virtue.
Last edited by Mister Imperceptible on Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by ZAFCorrection »

I do have a strong tendency towards imprecise language, but also see my earlier posts in this thread. People very frequently throw out a long line on the legitimacy of conspiracy theorizing right before they start talking about the lizard overlords. If you want "conspiracy theory" to not be shorthand for kookiness, police yourselves.

At the very least, own up to the fact that you got a bunch of jackasses in your midst.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I have way less ability to stop people from believing in lizard overlords than do people in positions of power over those in their employ for brutalizing, kayfabing, and propagandizing.

ZAFCorrection
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by ZAFCorrection »

Hacking someone's brain to make them think a certain way is quite the order. I'm just asking people to do what I am doing, which is arguing against stupid shit in my own team. If my own team wins the game, I can be infinitesimally more certain that they won't be raging idiots.

If you let everything slide because "don't hurt your own team," good luck if you win. People change, major issues change, and today's fellow travelers are tomorrow's enemies. Better hope they suddenly start acting reasonably.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I suppose, but who is the targeted audience, really?

In the COVID-19 thread there was talk that the reason the government and the WHO can push phony science on truck drivers and hair dressers is because the truck drivers and the hair dressers are doing a poor job of realizing Enlightenment principles by not studying chemistry and biology. My expectations of the truck drivers and hair dressers are low, so I can dismiss it if they believe in lizard overlords. I am calling bullshit on the government and the institutions.

Besides, the truck drivers and hair dressers still have the power of intuition, so their belief in lizard overlords is metaphorically true, even if it is literally false.

CS
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by CS »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:27 pm
.but what a bunch of mentally weak pussies.
Could you not?

This is a public forum.

Also, see "ways to convince other people" (hint - this is not it.)

ZAFCorrection
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by ZAFCorrection »

I don't disagree with what you said, but I would frame it slightly differently. You have the hairdressers and truck drivers whose epistemology is something like "common sense" or folk wisdom or whatever, often leading to lizard overlord beliefs. Then you got the so-called rational materialist people, including major institutions, the intelligentsia, and many people on this forum. Except I think most people are biologically incapable of being actual rational materialists. The virtue-signaling over lockdown and numeracy* despite the obvious and huge gaps in the justification for lockdown is a good example of smart people fooling themselves over this. David Collum indulging in his jackassery under the appellation of Big Muckymuck at Big Academic Institution is another disheartening example. I still kinda sorta count myself in the rational materialist camp, so I hope these situations get called out vigorously. I don't want to hang out with so-called rationalists who are really just playing a dressed-up lizard overlord game.

A big problem with the current ascendancy of the rational materialist brand is everyone is pretending they are one, including the hairdressers who never bothered collecting systematic evidence for anything. So in the folksy camp you also got to listen to the lizard overlord stories, which while possibly "metaphorically true," keep getting cast as literally true. People need to stay in their lane. And if something is metaphorically true, I assume I do not need to respond to it the same as something that is literally true (again, Motte and bailey).

*One accurately-determined parameter amongst many parameters left to themselves is not likely to yield a more accurate solution than YOLOing it on everything. So saith numeracy (i.e. error propagation rules).

daylen
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by daylen »

Materials do not need rationales.

..but I want them for some reason.. what am I? :? ;)

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

I look at cancel culture as something that belongs in China, the former Soviet Union, or some other totalitarian regime.

I recall something being said regarding that guy who writes Star Slate Codex, something like “If you don’t want to get attacked by SJWs, don’t make friends with SJWs. Serves him right.” Man, I hope no one comes after you with this type of BS, and I hope you have friends when they do. It would be awful if your friends are brainwashed into abandoning you. I know.

“Agree with everything we say or we will deprive you of your livelihood. Attack the man, not the idea.”

Collum said the old dude just got a nudge (true) and that the cops needed space and were threatened (likely untrue, more likely they were annoyed- hence a nudge instead of the baton). If no nuance can be applied to any conversation about anything because one side is desperately looking to be offended and accuse the other side of bigotry, how are we going to have any adult conversations? The guy deserves to lose his livelihood because he talks about conspiracy theories in his personal writings and he tweeted that the riots are putting the cops in a tough position?

If he tweeted something about unqualified support for Black Lives Matter, would he have been fired? Or praised?

This is the reason the 2016 election went down the way it did. No one has learned anything. Expect more votes for chaos and more votes against lizard overlords. Whoever those lizard overlords are perceived to be. Usually the party that is championing cancel culture.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

Protests prompt reassessment of movies, TV shows

Entertainment companies are reviewing the content they offer in the wake of George Floyd's death amid nationwide protests for racial justice and against police brutality.

Gone with the Wind has been pulled from HBO Max (NYSE:T), though the streamer plans to return the movie to the platform "with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of ethnic and racial prejudices."


SJWs are mad so we have to erase Gone With The Wind from existence. Quite actually cancelling culture.
prognastat wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:32 am
I also don't think accusing people of racism is a useful strategy. It isn't going to win people over to your side from the supposed racists and will rather push them farther away. Don't see how this will effectively further your goals politically if you believe your side has the right answers. The only thing it will do is make you feel self satisfied, but that doesn't really achieve much of use. I would say a not insignificant reason Trump won last time around is because the people you are calling racist were growing tired of being called racists and felt Trump was a big middle finger back at those people.
I can detect middle fingers being risen across the USA. In fact some imperceptible power seems to be raising mine as well.

Fish
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Fish »

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:58 am
The guy deserves to lose his livelihood because he talks about conspiracy theories in his personal writings and he tweeted that the riots are putting the cops in a tough position?
Some additional issues are that (1) he has accused of discussing CTs in a professional context: in lectures and seminars, (2) using uni resources to promote CTs incl. recording videos in classrooms, tweeting from campus during work hours, (3) may have violated some rules trying to oppose grad student unionization (though he was investigated and found not to have acted illegally). There’s no one isolated incident that is serious enough to demand his removal but anecdotal reports suggest the personal is blending with the professional leading him to be perceived as the proverbial crazy uncle in the workplace.

By all accounts Collum is a very competent researcher as measured by input ($) and output (papers). But Dave definitely has made enemies on campus who view his presence as toxic, and they are trying to get him fired or force a resignation following this controversy. So while the mob is showing up because he was on the wrong side of public opinion on a sensitive topic, those closer to him see it as the latest in a pattern of questionable behavior.
ZAFCorrection wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:14 pm
I don't understand the mindset of one that can go to work and agonize over the validity of their data interpretation and then come home and YOLO it over black helicopters and area 51.
It does seem incongruent doesn’t it. But it doesn’t surprise me that a person is capable of thinking critically within their area of expertise and then not have the correct framework or data to apply that to other domains. The problem compounds if this kind of person uses Zerohedge as a primary source of news and information.

Reading Dave’s twitter, I found him to retweet some stuff of questionable veracity which leads me to believe that his worldview is actually rigid.

This is not meant as an attack on Collum. I still think he adds value in his financial commentary and the year-end reviews where he tries to construct a coherent narrative. But mainly entertainment value.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

Let’s look at those issues from a reverse perspective.

1) If he had discussed, in lectures and seminars, the inherent exploitativeness of capitalism and self-lacerated himself over his white privilege, would he have been fired, or praised?

2) If he had used campus resources to discuss the evils of capitalism and white people, would he have been fired or praised?

3) If he was investigated and not to have been found to have acted illegally, are we now saying that if we do not like someone and due process fails in our persecution attempt, that we start a character assassination campaign so everyone views him as crazy uncle? To the point that “he is the crazy uncle, so I am ok with his unjust treatment” becomes the judgement?
Fish wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:05 pm
anecdotal reports suggest the personal is blending with the professional leading him to be perceived as the proverbial crazy uncle in the workplace

.....

enemies on campus who view his presence as toxic, and they are trying to get him fired or force a resignation following this controversy. So while the mob is showing up because he was on the wrong side of public opinion on a sensitive topic, those closer to him see it as the latest in a pattern of questionable behavior.
Could this be more vague?




Right now, ZeroHedge is actually documenting the collapse of the economy and the suffering of Main Street, while CNBC cheerleads the stock market and encourages retail investors to use their stimulus checks to buy the most overvalued stocks in US history. But that is ok because CNBC is part of the Gated Institutional Narrative, and ZeroHedge has been associated with the epithet “conspiracy theorist”?


Matt Taibbi: Democrats Have Abandoned Civil Liberties

Fish
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Fish »

@MI - I see the double standard there. That’s not my argument but rather my summary of what some people said on reddit in the immediate aftermath. A vague paraphrase seemed preferable to a link at the time, though here is the primary source. It was deleted since I last accessed it, but it is archived. And you can find a lot of Collum discussion on reddit. I think I did a decent job of filtering out what was relevant though there was loss of detail?

https://web.archive.org/web/20200607190 ... to_resign/

I’m also guilty of using tradition as a cheap filter against crazy (with some type 1/2 error as a side effect). But if humans including myself won’t even put *ideas* on a level playing field what does that say about our prospects for solving racism?

Going back to the arguments for removing Collum, they are not my views but the point of introducing them was to balance the story since it goes beyond some humans getting triggered by the tweets. I think I understand and to some extent empathize with those who find Collum disagreeable. But as detached observer I don’t feel the same outrage that they do.

Also I’m not against Zerohedge, except it’s not for everyone. Especially those inclined to believe everything they read.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

@Fish

Not saying the opinions expressed were yours. Just trying to say how public opinion regarding someone unpopular can be easily manipulated by playing a telephone game. “Anecdotal reports suggest” can go to easily manipulated places. I cannot know if that archived Reddit post is true or is part of a smear campaign. People who are more agreeable are often not on the other side of cancel culture mob attacks, and so that it can happen might be inconceivable to them (because they usually conform, either fearing crowd disapproval and/or desiring crowd approval or it being just a consequence of their natural gregariousness).

My agreeableness is zero and my experience is the opposite. I have seen someone or someone(s) create a mock account in my name and use it to post offensive things. Because I am “disagreeable” they did not feel this was unethical, my coward “friends” being terrified of nonconformity did not come to my defense, and again because I am “disagreeable” there were others all too ready to believe the mock account and things posted by it was me. So my natural response is to attack witch hunt BS.

I also re-read the article you posted and I guess Collum has not been fired as chemistry prof (yet)? Rather he was just removed as director of undergraduate studies. If that is the case I misread it before.

Based on these experiences my hope for solving racism or any other ism is zero. Beyond Dunbar number we cannot know people and so must settle for what the authorities tell us, which I increasingly believe are lies. Multicultural dream is possible in post-scarcity utopia of growing society where everybody wins to varying degrees but not in a declining one where competitive zero-sum games proliferate. Psy-ops and surveillance are increasing. In the Taibbi article I linked he captured how I feel on where the Democrats now stand with regard to civil liberties.

I remember hearing from a few black people I know IRL, approval of the murder of police officers in Dallas a few years ago as retribution for previous instances of police brutality against blacks. Now, ideally we could look at each instance on a case-by-case basis. Yes, this particular cop should be brought to justice for keeping a knee on a dude’s neck for 9 minutes, no, we should not indiscriminately kill police officers. But tribalism takes over.

Again, Collum’s tweet was true in that the old dude was nudged, likely untrue that he was presenting a real threat as that is why he was nudged instead of batoned, but essentially depicted the reality of how cops are now in no-win situation during riots (see @white belt’s comments in unwinding covid lockdown thread). But at this point no nuanced discussion is possible as mobs descend and enforce “higher education ethos” of For Us or Against Us.

Again, I don’t know of a solution to these problems or am too tired to further articulate but I have been right there as Collum is receiving the epithets, condemnation and threats to my livelihood, hence my strong reaction.

Furthermore, I am not really sure what is expected of me or others who have endured something similar when political movements associated with cancel culture then say “For Us or Against Us.” I would have to be pretty self-loathing to be For You if this is the way I am going to be treated. Against You, then, of course.

Fish
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Fish »

Your points seem reasonable to me @MI. I’m sorry you had to go through something similar. The resulting perspective makes sense given your experiences.

With respect to tweet, although it was intended as commentary on the events of the video, others are choosing to view it as opposing the narrative of police brutality in USA and need for reform. Not the most charitable interpretation, but one that needs to be acknowledged in this environment.

Should Dave have taken his own advice and stayed away from violent mobs? I think this outcome could have been anticipated... and even if not, it is a good precautionary lesson.

Still, I lament both the chilling effect that results from [fear of] mob behavior, as well as the fact that we condone internet mob justice so long as it’s for a good cause.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/06/11/ ... achusetts/

The city of Boston removed the damaged statue of Christopher Columbus from a North End park Thursday morning, a day after it was beheaded by vandals.
Augustus wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:58 pm
My ancestors never renounced citizenship, so the key is to realize that I was born a citizen, but I am now being recognized as one, maybe, gonna take a while. I am pursuing 2 routes, my strongest case is in Italy
I prefer you stay in America as part of the bulwark against decay and barbarism.

Mister Imperceptible
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Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: David Collum year in review

Post by Mister Imperceptible »

It’s worse than that.

In January and February the media told you to buy the most overvalued stocks in history.

In March and April the media told you to lockdown and lose your business.

In June the media tells you to fight the white patriarchy.

Nothing is true. Everything is justified.

There is nowhere to run to.

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