Nickels?

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Riggerjack
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Nickels?

Post by Riggerjack » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:28 pm

In large parts of the world gold is a more useful currency,
Where? I mean, today, with everything working as we are accustomed to them working, where is gold more useful than whatever works for local currency? I mean there is a conversion cost to get into a local currency, so, factoring an astounding 5% for conversion, where can you use gold at 95% of the usefulness of cash? The only way I could imagine this working would be Argentina, (due to the long standing currency crisis.) but you could use any other currency there cheaper than gold.

Gold is too easy to fake. Take an ingot of tungsten, electroplate in gold, and you have an ingot that will pass nearly every nondestructive test for gold. It's the right density, it sounds right, the right conductivity, even a touchstone and chemical tests will show it as gold. This uncertainty will always translate to a discount in real transactions.

The melt value of nickel doesn't have much to do with the value of a nickel. If you want to sell it for melt value, the buyer has to work out the costs of refining it from the alloy in the coins. Nobody runs a refinery for free. This seems like an awkward way to hold value, but, I imagine when things get bad enough, a 12 gauge full of nickels would be a persuasive argument...

There just seems to be this vein of wishful thinking running through the goldbug mind. For the record, I'll be trading giant jars of Adams peanut butter from Costco WTSHTF. We can compare notes after. I am certain that when bad things happen, I can get a nice profit on high density foods, and help my nieghbors. Trading them gold wouldn't do that.

Clarice
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Location: California

Re: Nickels?

Post by Clarice » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:59 pm

I understand the preferred currencies in post-Soviet Russia were the US Dollar and the Deutschemark. If you had a pile of either you could basically name your price for any good or service.

@unemployable: Just for the sake of historical accuracy, foreign currency was illegal in Russia in the very beginning of the 90-s as in "Use dollars - go to prison". However, you could pay a plumber with a bottle of vodka, settle with a babysitter in cigarettes, and barter a bucket of potatoes for 1 kilogram of sugar. Foreign currency was unknown. Personally, I wouldn't identify a Deutsche mark out of a line up of bills to save my life. :) Dollars and marks were too big to pay for daily necessities of life and too risky to invest on a bigger scale. That experience has left me convinced that there is a huge divide between your normal investments and SHTF contingencies. They are not the same. For me, nickels do not fit into either category.

Clarice
Posts: 260
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Location: California

Re: Nickels?

Post by Clarice » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:14 pm

"I understand the preferred currencies in post-Soviet Russia were the US Dollar and the Deutschemark. If you had a pile of either you could basically name your price for any good or service."

@unemployable: Just for the sake of historical accuracy, foreign currency was illegal in Russia in the very beginning of the 90-s as in "Use dollars - go to prison". However, you could pay a plumber with a bottle of vodka, settle with a babysitter in cigarettes, and barter a bucket of potatoes for 1 kilogram of sugar. Foreign currency was unknown. Personally, I wouldn't identify a Deutsche mark out of a line up of bills to save my life. :) Dollars and marks were too big to pay for daily necessities of life and too risky to invest on a bigger scale. That experience has left me convinced that there is a huge divide between your normal investments and SHTF contingencies. They are not the same. For me, nickels do not fit into either category.

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unemployable
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Re: Nickels?

Post by unemployable » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:30 pm

Clarice wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:14 pm
@unemployable: Just for the sake of historical accuracy, foreign currency was illegal in Russia in the very beginning of the 90-s as in "Use dollars - go to prison".
My understanding was the people who had the power to send you to jail for using USD could be persuaded otherwise... by flashing them a few USD.

By the way, I'm way ahead of y'all. Although from 1942-45 nickels contained no actual nickel.

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Riggerjack
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Re: Nickels?

Post by Riggerjack » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:29 pm

In the late 80's my HS girlfriend went to Estonia. The hosting family traded rubles for dollars, allowing the capitalists to buy souvenirs, and the hosting family to buy Western goods, which rubles were useless for. They offered something in between the official exchange rate, of something like 2:1 and the street value of nearer 15:1.

The Soviet failure was such a mess because there was so little economic knowledge in the general population. For generations the only real currency was political connections, so it makes for a poor model for a failed state for US preppers. However it goes down, it won't follow that pattern.

Mister Imperceptible
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Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Nickels?

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:45 pm

@riggerjack

Thats exactly right, the dual properties of the US nickel as hard asset and fiat money. I like the tip about the cubic zirconium.

When I say SHTF, I mean this is relative terms. In failed states I doubt I can get good value for gold OR nickels. When zombies start roaming the streets, only food and ammunition will really be of worth. But with each stock market crash and the dollar devaluation that follows, I still like gold. In defense of jennypenny, gold is especially sacred in India, but save the American Indian (who isn’t a global player anymore) gold is revered in all cultures. It’s dense and I can sell it to rich people. The amount of prep required for a zombie scenario is the all-consuming thing that would define me, not accumulating US nickels.

I am concerned about tungsten and other gold fakes.

@Clarice

Ok, I might have to seriously think about having SOME alcohol, but if the US becomes a failed state, all bets are off and how can we really plan for that anyway?

Some wine and scotch should actually become more valuable with age! The most perfect excuse for a wine cellar I’ve heard from an ERE perspective.

@unemployable

Nice collection.

Alright, Rowland and Spitznagel arrived in the mail, time to further edumacate myself.

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fiby41
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Location: India

Re: Nickels?

Post by fiby41 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:07 am


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