Numbness to Numbers

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slowtraveler
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Numbness to Numbers

Post by slowtraveler »

Did anyone else get this relatively early on in their journey?

I've reached a point where I see numbers rise and I don't feel excitement any more. I feel peace and relief instead.

Maybe hedonic adaptation numbs us to progress as well. So unless progress accelerates, it feels the same. A slow, steady brick by brick once a tempo has been found.

BRUTE
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by BRUTE »

it's not hedonic adaptation, simply adaptation. the first time Felipe rode a bicycle was probably super exciting, but after a few months or years, it's not special any longer. such is the way with exposure to all things. humans develop a tolerance.

classical_Liberal
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by classical_Liberal »

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Last edited by classical_Liberal on Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seamus
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by Seamus »

I think I remember Jacob writing that paying $0.25 too much for an item at the grocery store had more of an emotional impact than a single day four-digit drop in portfolio value. I'm sure a lot of us feel this way to some extent.

wolf
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by wolf »

I also experience a numbness to my NW change. Then I see that I have "only" xx% saved for FI, but for other people it is huge. On the other side I look forward each month for my paycheck. Then I am really excited about the amount of money I can save. That is a good feeling and it lasts some days. Currently I have lots of cash and I am waiting to invest it. I guess when I increase my passive income from dividents I will enjoy it also. However at some points they are numbers in my excel charts, but it is real money!!! I am also excited when I find a product for the cheapest price (like Jacob said) but I also do know that it is not always the cheapest if I count my real hourly wage for searching and comparing.

liberty
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by liberty »

ERE is boring... When the numbers get higher, the percentage increase per year gets lower. Just looking forward to future and retirement instead of doing cool stuff here and now. I'm getting bored of it.

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Seppia
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by Seppia »

Felipe wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:36 pm
Did anyone else get this relatively early on in their journey?

I've reached a point where I see numbers rise and I don't feel excitement any more. I feel peace and relief instead.

Maybe hedonic adaptation numbs us to progress as well. So unless progress accelerates, it feels the same. A slow, steady brick by brick once a tempo has been found.
This recent run has been one of the most incredible periods of growth in history.
Not really because of the returns (high, but less than other historic bull runs), but because of the inexistent volatility.
If I had to bet $1, I would say we will see something radically different within the next 4-5 years tops.

By the way every time I see stocks go up I'm pissed. A nice 50-60% drop like the one hussman has been writing about for a while would be more than welcome, it would fast forward my financial independence quite a bit.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Maybe write a program that renders a graphic of all the various things on which you regularly spend money, and then the pictures get filled in with color when you have enough money invested to pay for that particular thing for the rest of your life? Then if you gain the skill that would allow you to no longer spend money on that item, you could erase it from the graphic, and the color could fill up something else.

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Sclass
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by Sclass »

Do you get stimulated when the numbers decrease?

Once I figured out how little I actually need, the number becomes a number. If it doubles, I'll still eat the same number of gruel bowls a day. I'll only sleep on half of my bed.

Somehow meeting my needs has numbed me to wanting more money. I'm not interested in turning up the level of my consumption because I'll hit diminishing returns...like I ate four plums for dessert just now and I think I'm going to have diarrhea as a result.

slowtraveler
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by slowtraveler »

@Brute
I get the bike example and thrills dulling with repeated exposure. For a non-human, Brute knows humans quite well.

@classical_Liberal
I didn't realize how the comparison point affected perspective in this situation till now. Comparing to FI is natural as it's my goal but comparing to zero-the delta of emotions is almost comical.

@Seamus
Universal part of the ERE experience. Maybe meme worthy.

@MDIRE2024
Haha! I can't imagine trying to account for time researching in the cost of things. It's something fun that I enjoy so it's work I'd do even if I didn't have to.

@libery
Obsessing with the number gets mind-numbingly boring real quick. I'm focusing more and more on the lifestyle I want as I get a small cushion. Is there a way you can enjoy that cool stuff now?

@Seppia
You and me both.
I would say your statement applies to US markets. International markets have been far more volatile than US the last 5 years.

@7Wannabe5
That's a cute idea. My expenses vary so much each year though. I find budgeting almost pointless except that it takes me to near monk like focus on low expenses for a while.

@Sclass
Stimulated? Yes
I get some anxiety and some excitement. Anxiety that my on paper number is down, excited about the potential sale.
I feel like once I move out I'll tune into that sweet spot level of consumption and how little I actually need.
I could see why you'd numb to money. Money represents a medium for exchanging value and once you have your needs met, more consumption does nothing for happiness unless marketing has tricked you into a bottomless pit of spending.

liberty
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by liberty »

Felipe wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:08 am
@libery
Obsessing with the number gets mind-numbingly boring real quick. I'm focusing more and more on the lifestyle I want as I get a small cushion. Is there a way you can enjoy that cool stuff now?
The cool stuff for me is to build stuff. I don't have much power to that after working 9-5, but got some time during weekends. I built a website, and I'm working on another one about investing. But work is taking all the power away from me on weekdays... I'm giving away my best hours every day, and then I can't enjoy the cool stuff now.

IlliniDave
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by IlliniDave »

It's like watching grass grow. Well, maybe a garden is a better analogy. I got an amount of satisfaction as certain milestones were reached, but day-to-day it's just sorta part of the landscape.

I just thought of something I meant to put in my journal for the month. For the first time in my life I haggled for a discount at a retail store last week. I netted a whopping 3 bucks for my effort, but I felt really, really good about keeping that $3 in my pocket.

cmonkey
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by cmonkey »

Agree on it becoming less exciting as you grow. I kinda wish I could keep the excitement going. Milestones aren't even meaning as much even as I approach 150K. I noticed this once I reached 100K, it just wasn't the same anymore.

I do still get a buzz when I see I'm beating the market, and it definitely boosts my mood when it is a sustained beat, which has been picking up again.

BRUTE
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by BRUTE »

IlliniDave wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:48 pm
It's like watching grass grow.
brute has a similar experience. he doesn't watch his number very often, and is always surprised when it goes up "on its own". once a month or so brute notices this, and it makes him smile.

CS
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by CS »

Sclass wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:16 pm
Somehow meeting my needs has numbed me to wanting more money. I'm not interested in turning up the level of my consumption because I'll hit diminishing returns...like I ate four plums for dessert just now and I think I'm going to have diarrhea as a result.
:lol:

Scott 2
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by Scott 2 »

I'm experiencing a form of this right now. I hit my number, but am in a holding pattern with my job for a variety of reasons. So my savings rate is a very high % on top of a number that meets my needs.

My spending has become sloppy in the extreme. There just no incentive to reign it in. If I can throw twenty bucks at a problem, I try not to even consider it. A couple hundred? Multiple times this month. Anything to make life easier and alleviate load around the job. Even if I burn an extra $1000 a month, it's a strong financial win, but it feels super weird to do. I cannot justify the time buying or selling used. The other day I got food delivered to avoid breaking to cook. I believe the choices are reasonable given my constraints, but it feels ludicrous compared to my past.

I know I've seen Jacob say that eventually money becomes like water, and you don't even really consider it anymore. Frankly, I'm running out of things to buy, and can see it happening. It's like part of my identity is dissolving.

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Sclass
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by Sclass »

Scott 2 wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:58 pm
Frankly, I'm running out of things to buy, and can see it happening. It's like part of my identity is dissolving.
I feel you man. A lot of things I thought were really important to have when I was younger don't mean all that much to me. I just don't want that stuff anymore.

As I accumulated more and more money the desire to consume decreased. I'm actually wondering what I should do now. My wealthy friends just turn up their consumption when they get richer. Upgrade the wife, home and car. No quite what gets me off.

The numbers just grow and grow but I still live the same. I guess that's why it loses its meaning once you know and have what you want.

Did
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by Did »

I know all of you seem to be in shares, and the numbers have grown and grown. I remember my parents freaking the shit out in October 1987. Their numbers didn't grow and grow. And lots of Australians lost almost half of their superannuation in the 2000s, no growth there. There do seem to be a lot of Early Retirement people out there who have incredible graphs of wealth increase. It didn't really seem to work like that for some periods at least like I remember.

By contrast property in Australia went crazy over about 10 years. Australia is full of property know-it-alls, and yet again back in the 1990s nothing would have happened. I didn't see any urgency in buying as a young fella, left Brisbane for brighter lights in 1999 and when I returned prices had doubled to tripled. I would have been better off being less of an achiever and plodding along with the rest of the gang. As it turns out I had to suffer through equity conversation after equity conversation as well as having the indignity of considering whether or not to buy something at a multiple of what those dodos paid for their places.

Anyway, back to the original post. I do get a thrill when I see my net worth increase. It is all locked away in property and compulsory share purchases so I actually feel poorer at the moment because I had some expenses and whacked them on the credit card. This is despite me being worth more now than I was 12 months ago.

Is it about net worth or real returns and how far they go given your situation? I would get a greater thrill halving my expenses and doubling my returns than seeing some sort of valuation increase. Perhaps it would mean more if I could cash in on it by selling off a few shares.

Regarding use of half a bed, I guess the desirability of that optimization depends on who is using the other half....

slowtraveler
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Re: Numbness to Numbers

Post by slowtraveler »

@IlliniDave
Haggling at a retail store sounds thrilling since it's so rare. I couldn't imagine pulling that off at Walmart.

@Cmonkey
I think that's the magic number. Proof of concept and after that, it's repeating and fine tuning.

@Scott 2
Seriously, I don't pay an attogram of attention to my budget outside of a monthly glance to make sure it's somewhere around 70-90% of my income on a trailing 3-12 month basis.

I feel like I've been obsessing with hoarding water and I've finally got enough water to do the things I've wanted like showering and brushing teeth (all analogies, I promise). Once I have enough water, it's just that- enough.

I used to want 10MM, it still sounds cool, but I don't think my life would be any less complete if I don't manage to leave that to my heirs.

@Did
I agree. If I halved my expenses while maintaining my quality of life, I'd be thrilled. It'd probably last a few weeks too. Then I'd need another halving for the same buzz. :lol:

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