Bitcoin on the rise

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BlueNote
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BlueNote » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:54 pm

I did a relatives taxes recently who had bought a low 4 figure amount of bitcoin in Canada, transferred the bitcoin to an exchange in Boston USA and then traded some of the bitcoin for other crypto currencies. He made a profit but it was all luck of course. The problem from a tax perspective is that, based on Canadian tax conventions, crypto currency transactions are considered barter for him. This means that every trade where he had a gain goes to his taxes as a capital gain. Another crap deal is that if he buys stuff with crypto there's a potential for cap gain/loss and also the sales tax aspect. Luckily he didn't do this, thanks goodness. The Boston exchange he used had crappy history on his trades and shitty reporting. They didn't have any report that even kept a running balance in BTC of all his transactions. Looked like the site was slapped together with duct tape and coffee by a couple of over caffeinated code monkeys who could care less about tax accounting, go figure. They denominated all of his trades in BTC (bit coin) but couldn't produce a history of daily bitcoin to USD rates on the exchange for 2017. I was required to convert his transactions into bitcoin (using at lease daily rates) then into USD and finally to CAD. I had to download a history of bitcoin prices in USD from another site and use that as an estimate. Doing his bitcoin transactions took me longer than doing both my and my wife taxes, probably twice as long. I told him he'd need pay to have a different accountant do his taxes next year. I am not doing that crap again, I am not a tax accountant. I told him I'd fill out the forms but he'd need to submit the taxes under his own name and would take full responsibility for the figures. I even plugged the numbers into two different tax software packages to makes sure the end result was the same. If he gets audited it's going to be a grey area that cannot be resolved easily without just accepting some assumptions which tax auditors won't like to do, could be a huge time suck for him.

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bryan
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by bryan » Wed May 02, 2018 8:53 pm

My sympathies.

I'm pretty pleased with https://bitcoin.tax honestly. I would recommend it to anyone that doesn't want to handle it themselves, even though it might cost a bit. I found it pretty fast, accurate, and clear. I assume Intuit or a similar company might eventually acquire it or make their own.

Jason
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Jason » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:41 pm

I guess this explains why thread has been dormant over past three months?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/tech ... Technology

As a compromise, I bought shares in CME which has gone all kinds of sideways during this time.

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Bankai
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Bankai » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:16 pm

Makes sense, it's been a generation since last big bubble (internet) so masses either forgot or never experienced anything similar.
"$90,000...drew on savings, an insurance policy and a $25,000 loan. Her investments are now down about 90 percent
WTF?!?
financial analyst ...invested more than $100,000...still a big believer
Buy and hold in practice?

With all this, I wonder if the trend might actually be starting to reverse? Probably still too early to buy. And all this overhead...

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bryan
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by bryan » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:21 pm

fwiw, I've noticed more places online (especially small shops) than ever accepting Bitcoin and others. I think this (Intercontinental Exchange getting in) is the biggest news I've read in recent months.

A few snippets from the article:
The founding imperative for Bakkt will be to make Bitcoin a sound and secure offering for key constituents that now mostly shun it—the world’s big financial institutions. The goal is to clear the way for major money managers to offer Bitcoin mutual funds, pension funds, and ETFs, as highly regulated, mainstream investments.
...
“Coinbase has twice as many customers as Charles Schwab,” says Loeffler. “Many of the people who have opened accounts on Coinbase are millennials who use it to make small investments in crypto-currencies.”
...
So why aren’t the Vanguards and Blackrocks taking a “serve them and they shall come” approach? For Sprecher and Loeffler, the reason is fundamental—and fixable. “Two things are missing,” says Sprecher. “Trading on an official exchange, and safe storage for digital currencies on an institutional scale.”

Put simply, Sprecher says, the big money managers won’t create digital currency funds unless they can first buy the tokens on a federally regulated exchange, and, second, store the tokens for their investors in accounts rendered super-secure by the safeguards provided overseen by federal regulators.
...
Bakkt would provide the first fully-integrated package combining a major federally-regulated exchange, as well as with the clearing and storage overseen by the exchange. ICE owns six clearing houses that are vertically-integrated with ICE Futures U.S. and its other exchanges. By utilizing a CFTC regulated futures exchange for cryptocurrencies, Bakkt would provide two main layers of security that money managers regard as absolutely essential.
So another run at getting "big money" investing into BTC, this time with it directly using Bitcoin instead of some derivative.

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BlueNote
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BlueNote » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:28 pm

Jason wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:41 pm
I guess this explains why thread has been dormant over past three months?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/tech ... Technology

As a compromise, I bought shares in CME which has gone all kinds of sideways during this time.
I think my relative might have gotten taken to the cleaners as well. He ended up trading into a bunch of "alt-coins" which were obliterated at the beginning of 2018. At one point he was amazed that his speculation had gotten so high, he didn't brag but would tell people in amazement how much he made. Haven't heard him talking about it lately so hopefully he sold out before he started losing money. Gotta love the die hard crypto people who are trying to re-rationalize this as yet another crypto winter that will be followed by a crypto spring where all the strong hands will get richer. When I was around 11-13 (1991-1993) there was a huge sport trading card speculative mania not as big as crypto but same idea. It got to the point where people like my Dad were buying entire complete yearly sets of these cards as long term investments. Needless to say our old trading cards were terrible investments at this point because of the massive increase in supply, at the time, of what was and is really an almost worthless piece of cardboard. Crypto is similar, it can be made for almost nothing and during the last mania people were just buying air out of FOMO.

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prognastat
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by prognastat » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:13 pm

Crypto won't actually succeed at the goal of being an alternative currency until it has managed to reduce the insane amount of volatility, yet this volatility is the reason many got/are getting into crypto in the first place. Seems almost like a catch-22 for crypto to catch on it needs many people using it, however the way it's getting many people into it is the exact reason it isn't able to succeed at it's goal of being an alternative to our current currencies.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:09 am

The fact that the typical crypto investor is the type of person whose goal in life is to procure the maximum number of likes on Instagram tells you everything you need to know about cryptos.

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Bankai
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Bankai » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:37 pm


Augustus
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Augustus » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:29 pm

prognastat wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:13 pm
Crypto won't actually succeed at the goal of being an alternative currency until it has managed to reduce the insane amount of volatility
I don't see how you can reduce volatility unless there's a guy with a gun (i.e. a government) telling people they have to accept bitcoins in exchange for a certain amount of things in return. The whiskey rebellion is a good example of what happens to alternative currencies without government support.

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BRUTE
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by BRUTE » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:16 pm

more volume tends to decrease volatility. humans sometimes voluntarily accept new media of exchange. the counter example could be made: the government of Zimbabwe still stood behind their currency, yet their humans stopped accepting it. government backing is just one factor, if an important one. mostly in that governments can really fuck their currencies up, brute is not convinced they can do anything to bolster their currencies.

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by jacob » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:00 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/19/nyre ... icity.html

Perhaps people could use the servers as space heaters. This would also solve the storage problem. At least for the winter.

jennypenny
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by jennypenny » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:28 am

What kind of taxes do bitcoin miners pay? How are they taxed? (sorry if it's upthread and I missed it)

I'm surprised more utility companies haven't figured out how to make money by getting in the mining game yet, or more large factories or production facilities that have excess electrical capacity.

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prognastat
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by prognastat » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:49 am

Augustus wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:29 pm
I don't see how you can reduce volatility unless there's a guy with a gun (i.e. a government) telling people they have to accept bitcoins in exchange for a certain amount of things in return. The whiskey rebellion is a good example of what happens to alternative currencies without government support.
I don't have any real solution to this problem(if I did I would be ver successful XD). However I do believe the hype and speculators currently interested in crypto are a big part of the problem. Maybe crypto currency just needs time to become boring and mundane and have most/all the speculators tire of it.

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Jason » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:21 pm

jennypenny wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:28 am

I'm surprised more utility companies haven't figured out how to make money by getting in the mining game yet, or more large factories or production facilities that have excess electrical capacity.
In my experience, public utilities do not have an entrepreneurial mindset. Its understandable based on their history.

The JLF/NYT article hits the two main points (1) Electrical Power; (2) Culture clash. I was involved in a Bitcoin negotiation on a very small scale in a blue collar town and we purposely used terms like "data" instead of "mining" to avoid issues. The zoning permitted the use so there was no duplicity. It was merely to avoid suspicion that they might be a stealth pederast organization, who's real plan was not employ technology but to bugger the town in its collective asshole.

But in the "Get the coal mines back up" vs. "Let's Speculate on shit most people can't understand" debate, at least the latter has a chance. The economic problem is "start up having no profit history or capital" vs. owners of obsolete/antiquated property having power but not the risk tolerance or sophistication to hammer out a creative deal. You are right though. The answer would be the utility company acting as middleman to negotiate short term community spike vs. possible long term profitability and its ultimate benefit to an area in need of regeneration.

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Jason » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:13 am


suomalainen
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by suomalainen » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:33 am

Bitcoin
A bunch of computer code that a bunch of criminals, idealists and speculators agree is worth “real” money. Sadly, its real-money value swings widely, making it impractical except for criminals, idealists and speculators.
From AARP.

The more you know.

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by jennypenny » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:48 am

ROFL!

Watch out for them young whippersnappers and their new-fangled money. ;)

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prognastat
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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by prognastat » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:09 am

They definitely want to make sure we know criminals use it. Unlike cash which criminals have never used...

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Re: Bitcoin on the rise

Post by Jason » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:18 am

NBA and bitcoin. Not surprisingly, Mark Cuban was the first to initially accept it as payment although nobody bit. Looks like he's going to be trying again.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/280 ... al-for-you

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