Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

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jacob
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by jacob » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:30 am

If I had to make some very general observations, fully realizing that most people are a mix of the different types as well as exhibit each preference to different levels of strength:

explorers: anything complex/complicated, trying out (exploring, duh!) uncommon skill-based strategies e.g. value, fixed income, ...
killers: clicker-trading, day-trading, and, about five years later, arguing EMH dogma on the internets
achievers: dividend growth investing, optimized asset allocation, index investing
socializers: "what is investing? lol", real estate, hot stock tips

FBeyer
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by FBeyer » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:32 am

BRUTE wrote:interesting. brute is mostly an achiever. few things give brute as much pleasure as watching arbitrary integers slowly increase, especially if they're labeled "XP" or "gold".

what investment strategy lends itself to being an achiever? brute would expect something where he can optimize a single, or just a few, very easy to obtain numbers, like SWR, net worth, average return. also maybe a strategy where instead of spending most of the time picking the strategy, one can spend the majority of the time "executing" it better than the next human.
I can quickly whip up a script for in C, Bash, Fortran, Python, Julia, Matlab, or R that will print slowly incrementing integers labeled Gold or XP for you if you really REALLY like to watch that ;)

FBeyer
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by FBeyer » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:33 am

jacob wrote:...
achievers: dividend growth investing, optimized asset allocation, index investing...
I'm uncharacteristically annoyed of how close that hits to home.

jacob
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by jacob » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:34 am


FBeyer
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by FBeyer » Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:19 pm

Go. Away. You mean old man.

cmonkey
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by cmonkey » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:40 pm

I couldn't even stand 30 seconds of that!! What the hell, you can't even do anything. It doesn't help that I hate progress bars.

I ditto FBeyers sentiments on the annoyance of falling in the achiever investment bucket. I am not an achiever of any sorts, even declining National Honor Society back in grade school. It was just stupid.

I really fall more into explorer for most everything, but I want safe investment income. Once I have that....hrm.

jacob
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by jacob » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:54 pm

After playing all day, I, on the other hand, am currently a level 3 Battle-Felon, able to cast Sadness, Inoculate, Hastiness, and Good Move spells, all guaranteed to help me further my career. I also own a bunch of nifty equipment. I bet all the achievers are feeling pretty envious of my XP as well as my stuff by now and feel compelled to catch up to the Joneses.

(*) I kept a tab open in the background. An action soon to be repeated by several people. After all, you know you want those studded lace gauntlets and in particular see just what else it's possible to achieve. Resistance is futile.

cmonkey
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by cmonkey » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:29 pm

I have a hard enough time playing games like Maple Story or Warcraft. This was unbearable. The Elder Scrolls on the other hand - Explore!

7Wannabe5
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:18 pm

I am an Explorer/Social as is evidenced by my investments in rare books, abandoned land, vintage campers and fruit and nut trees. I carry no weapons or armor myself, so anytime I want to travel quickly through dangerous or into expensive territory, I simply form a temporary alliance with a Killer/Achiever. Money is just a subset of social contracts.

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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by Tyler9000 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:56 pm

jacob wrote:If I had to make some very general observations, fully realizing that most people are a mix of the different types as well as exhibit each preference to different levels of strength:

explorers: anything complex/complicated, trying out (exploring, duh!) uncommon skill-based strategies e.g. value, fixed income, ...
killers: clicker-trading, day-trading, and, about five years later, arguing EMH dogma on the internets
achievers: dividend growth investing, optimized asset allocation, index investing
socializers: "what is investing? lol", real estate, hot stock tips
Nice! I can see that. Investing method is much more tied to personality than many people realize.

BRUTE
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by BRUTE » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:03 pm

dividends! pah. but talking about optimizing asset allocations is all brute does on this forum, so.. seems pretty accurate.

by the way, brute is way ahead of progressquest. he has written his own game where enemies spawn and the program holds down the "shoot" key for brute, gaining xp in his sleep.

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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by BRUTE » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:07 pm

jacob wrote:Outperformance? Sorry, there's no app for that.
way ahead of jacob

stand@desk
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by stand@desk » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:33 pm

After reading the paper on the 4 player types, I thought of myself as an Achiever, but now I am reconsidering myself to be an explorer..Is there a natural progression from Achiever to Explorer for INTJ types? And does the MBTI have any direct correlation to the 4 player types?

I like growing my NW and trying to improve my running skill and speed so does that make me an achiever? I did not finish University because the achievement of graduating did nothing for me. I didn't see it as worth achieving in a way..Just a road to debts that had to be repaid later..perhaps this is of an explorer point of view..the notion of ERE is Exploratory in nature I would have to think, although it could attract other types of players but probably in lesser quantities.

The comments about socializers and finance really makes sense..they simply just don't care enough about it to work at it, to explore it. That paper was a good read, a great resource and definitely explains things that are in plain view in the world but the societal paradigm doesn't want to admit. (for example the killers are a-holes so society often denies they are there.) I feel like after reading the paper that it is a wake-up call to be on the alert for killers and it makes me feel like they are definitely out there so beware! But I do think they can bring out some good qualities of others..Killers are good at motivating for good or bad..

Has there been a pie chart (player asset allocation have you?? - that was for the achievers out there) of the different players in the general first world or American Society? I supposed it would be 35% Socializers, 35% Achievers, 10% Explorers, 20% Killers. The explorers are probably the NTs of the MBTI world? Socializers SF, NFs, Achievers SJs and Killers NFs, STs or something close..

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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by jacob » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:04 pm

@stand@desk - Don't take this too seriously(*) ... or at least not more seriously than any other personality classification system. It seems easier to relate the player types to enneagrams than to MBTI. Maybe you're an achiever with an explorer wing? However, I think the principal point Bartle makes is not that one player is better than others or that one type is just bad. The key to having a working game whether that be a computer game, an investing game, a career game, or simply a corporate game, is that the player-types are balanced. For example, if there weren't enough killers, achievers wouldn't find the game challenging. If there were too many, most other types would stop playing and the killer game would implode on itself because their value-add is in culling the weak rather than adding something productive.

(*) By which I mean, in practice, you should probably take it very seriously, but in theory you still have to wait for some academic to cast in proper academese in order for it to gain general acceptance.

There's a discussion about game balancing at the end of the text.

I'd say in terms of being alert, sure. I try to do this for internet discussions. A lot of what people say and think about each other given their player-type is also explained in the text.

Note that there are many different ways of making sense of the world which dividends people into four qaudrants using some general framework. I note this and some examples in one of the first footnotes in the ERE book. Too lazy to dig it up. I presume most people have read it. One I didn't include because I only discovered it later was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._ ... ous_essays ... I've found this tremendously helpful to gain a better understanding of humans ... Indeed, you make a good point about society denying the existence of its more frustrating members.

stand@desk
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Re: Anyone else FI now but still working for a bit longer?

Post by stand@desk » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:47 pm

It seems logical and natural to me that if a person was to be mentored that they need a good world view of understanding themselves and understanding others before they can progress. Otherwise it's like a house being built on an unsteady foundation and life is a process of constant building and falling over and building again. Once I found myself in that situation a few times growing up I realized I needed a foundation.

I studied these topics, MBTI, 16 Desires Theory a little bit of Enneagram, Greater Fool Blog and others, ERE Blog was a great help.. to get this worldview. I'm so glad I have it and I might not have developed it fully and found all its fruit but I feel I have enough to benefit from its theories.

But yet I don't really feel like "preaching" to others about this stuff cause it might not interest them, they might not grasp it or care..It's too bad really. The best educational models for constructing a worldview are out there but if one isn't motivated for some reason to discover them and build their lives on them, they spend their life on the hamster wheel. I just feel fortunate there were/are enough explorers out there to put themselves on the line and have their ideas made available for me to find and apply. Reading information on these types of topics really drives home confirmation that it's okay to be yourself as an INTJ, and you don't have to conform to the usual average societal person if you don't want to. And if you are healthily minded as an INTJ you probably wouldn't want to.

Yea, there are people out there who don't read non-fiction at all. It's just celebrity news or fiction novels. Anyways I am getting off topic here but I think the thread has deviated slightly off topic a few posts ago but it's uncovered good areas of discovery.

To get back on topic I'll just re-confirm I think the subtitle of this thread is ..still working for a bit longer but wishing for a buy-out? Probably most that are still working would take a buyout if it was reasonable enough if they were already FI. One of the main reasons I don't mind working while in the midst of FI is that I have a short walk to and from work everyday. If that changed that would reasonably affect my desire to keep working. The other thing is the benefits. Workplace benefits are a good reason to keep working because it would be a drag to have to pay for them out of pocket. Also I don't have to sit in a chair all day which is great for someone who is exercise conscious like myself. But a buyout is almost like the escape key to the golden handcuffs.

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