What's your opinion? Is it worth going to university (assuming a "useful degree" such as engineering or hard science)?
The tuition fees have recently been increased to £9,000 (~$14,000) per annum: this does not include accommodation and living expenses. The repayment is 9% of all income above £21,000 (~$32,500), and the interest rate is on a sliding scale, starting from simply inflation (Retail Price Index, currently around 5%). Its maximum is inflation + 3% for those earning above £45,000 (~$77,500) a year. The debt is written off after thirty years.
Degrees in the UK are very subject-specific: there is no liberal arts tradition. A bachelor's degree usually takes three years and a master's is an extra year on top of that. There are cheaper universities (the average fee is actually around £7,500), but they are often considered "inferior". The extent to which this is true is uncertain, but some universities definitely have better ties to certain employers. There are no community colleges I'm aware of which allow direct transfer to a "useful" course.
How does this square from an ERE perspective?
New UK tuition fees
My personal view is that for the majority of students this simply is not worth it. Debts of £27000+ is ridiclous money for a degree, which in the majority of cases wont help you much in the job market. If you want to ERE, my advice would be to simply get a job in the highest paid career you can find, and there are plenty where a degree is not needed.
The only exception I would say is those that are are truly dedicated to working in a particular field where a degree is essential (law, medicine etc) Even then, I would still want to approach the decision in a very hard-headed financial sense; how quickly could you repay it, what if you can't get a well-paid job, how long are you prepared to wait for ERE, what if you want to do other things after university like travel ??
I have many friends who started university about 10 years ago when the fees were only £1000 a year, and they still graduated with debts of £15000 +. In three years time, we're going to see thousands of new graduates with debts so large that they will never, ever, be able to pay off.
The only exception I would say is those that are are truly dedicated to working in a particular field where a degree is essential (law, medicine etc) Even then, I would still want to approach the decision in a very hard-headed financial sense; how quickly could you repay it, what if you can't get a well-paid job, how long are you prepared to wait for ERE, what if you want to do other things after university like travel ??
I have many friends who started university about 10 years ago when the fees were only £1000 a year, and they still graduated with debts of £15000 +. In three years time, we're going to see thousands of new graduates with debts so large that they will never, ever, be able to pay off.
Actually, the fees were previously £3,000 a year.
My parents will be able to lend me a certain amount of money interest-free, but they haven't yet specified an amount. I may also be able to get an industrial placement in my third year which will pay a salary of about £15,000.
It annoys me because chemistry is a subject I would very much like to study to degree level. I've been thinking about taking advantage of my EU passport, taking a year out to teach myself a language and earn some money on the side, and going somewhere where the tuition is a lot cheaper (or non-existent). What do you think of that?
My parents will be able to lend me a certain amount of money interest-free, but they haven't yet specified an amount. I may also be able to get an industrial placement in my third year which will pay a salary of about £15,000.
It annoys me because chemistry is a subject I would very much like to study to degree level. I've been thinking about taking advantage of my EU passport, taking a year out to teach myself a language and earn some money on the side, and going somewhere where the tuition is a lot cheaper (or non-existent). What do you think of that?
There's a few ideas here: http://www.careerbuilder.co.uk/Article/ ... -required/
Tbh, so many graduates end up working at entry level admin positions in companies that I'm not sure having a degree really gives you a significant edge anymore. If you want to climb up the ladder to the higher paid jobs, drive, dedication and a willingness the play the corporate game can get you there whilst your getting paid. In can be a means to an end to ERE.
On the other hand, if chemistry is something you really want to do and think you might spend the rest of your live regretting missing out on, then perhaps you should go for it - especially if you can do it a relatively cost efficient way and are wiling to delay ERE. I dont know what chemistry graduates can earn but if there a good chance for a higher starting salary, so much the better.
Mikebos has a great piece on his blog about this, well worth a read: http://lackingambition.com/
Tbh, so many graduates end up working at entry level admin positions in companies that I'm not sure having a degree really gives you a significant edge anymore. If you want to climb up the ladder to the higher paid jobs, drive, dedication and a willingness the play the corporate game can get you there whilst your getting paid. In can be a means to an end to ERE.
On the other hand, if chemistry is something you really want to do and think you might spend the rest of your live regretting missing out on, then perhaps you should go for it - especially if you can do it a relatively cost efficient way and are wiling to delay ERE. I dont know what chemistry graduates can earn but if there a good chance for a higher starting salary, so much the better.
Mikebos has a great piece on his blog about this, well worth a read: http://lackingambition.com/
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MountainMan
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:46 am
If reaching ERE ASAP is the only goal, university is most likely a big waste of time and money. But if you have a genuine interest in a "useful" subject like chemistry, it should be worth it to delay ERE by a few years. IMHO, it's better to gradually get bored over 10 years by a subject you were passionate about to start with (while accumulating valuable life experience in academia/industry) than going crazy for 5 years in a job that you hate from day 1. And for many, the years spent at university are some of the best in their life.
As for money matters, well at least you would not be paying overseas fees! Seriously, if you stay frugal, work a bit part-time (bar work, etc can be a lot of fun) and during the summer, and get a placement in industry, then student debt can still be kept to a minimum or even avoided in the UK. It just requires some motivation and resourcefullness.
As for money matters, well at least you would not be paying overseas fees! Seriously, if you stay frugal, work a bit part-time (bar work, etc can be a lot of fun) and during the summer, and get a placement in industry, then student debt can still be kept to a minimum or even avoided in the UK. It just requires some motivation and resourcefullness.
My children are going to be of university age soon (we had them when we were relatively young!) and I'll have to advise them on what to do in not too long.
On the one hand, I'm not keen that their first financial transaction in adult life is taking on a large debt. On the other, it does seem to be set up as a relatively low burden.
As to whether university is advisable or required, regardless of the financing, depends on what the person wants to do afterwards. I have on child who has a clear chosen career that requires a degree. For her it will be a very sensible route. But I see an awful lot of young people who just follow the herd into university who would really be better off doing something else.
On the one hand, I'm not keen that their first financial transaction in adult life is taking on a large debt. On the other, it does seem to be set up as a relatively low burden.
As to whether university is advisable or required, regardless of the financing, depends on what the person wants to do afterwards. I have on child who has a clear chosen career that requires a degree. For her it will be a very sensible route. But I see an awful lot of young people who just follow the herd into university who would really be better off doing something else.
You can get the first two years of your education free or cheaper at an FE College. I teach Software Development at a College, and we do have articulation links to 'useful' University courses.
I was going to suggest you could go to Scotland to avoid the £9000 tuition fees, but I think the Scottish Government is planning to keep Higher Education free to everyone except students from other parts of the UK.
If I was starting out now, I would probably not go to University straight from high school, and I would choose a course based on likely career prospects rather than for love of the subject.
I was going to suggest you could go to Scotland to avoid the £9000 tuition fees, but I think the Scottish Government is planning to keep Higher Education free to everyone except students from other parts of the UK.
If I was starting out now, I would probably not go to University straight from high school, and I would choose a course based on likely career prospects rather than for love of the subject.
It might be worth seeing how you can establish residency in Scotland. Or look to study abroad - I understand a lot of courses are available in the Netherlands in English.
One of the bizzaire and unfair anomolies of the new fee structure is how sudents from England, Wales and Northern Ireland students will be charged £9000 a year at a Scottish University, whereas a non - UK EU student will not have to pay anything.
So a student from, say, Portugal, who will never have paid a penny to the British exchequer will get free education in Scotland. By contrast, a British student who chooses to study in Britain at a Scottish university, will likely face a huge tutition bill simply because they don't live in Northern Britain.
I think its right that all EU students are treated the same and admirable that Scotland is seeking to keep undergraduate education free, but this is a blantantly absurd and discrimatory situation, and maybe will be deemed illegal at some point.
Anyway, thats my rant over.
One of the bizzaire and unfair anomolies of the new fee structure is how sudents from England, Wales and Northern Ireland students will be charged £9000 a year at a Scottish University, whereas a non - UK EU student will not have to pay anything.
So a student from, say, Portugal, who will never have paid a penny to the British exchequer will get free education in Scotland. By contrast, a British student who chooses to study in Britain at a Scottish university, will likely face a huge tutition bill simply because they don't live in Northern Britain.
I think its right that all EU students are treated the same and admirable that Scotland is seeking to keep undergraduate education free, but this is a blantantly absurd and discrimatory situation, and maybe will be deemed illegal at some point.
Anyway, thats my rant over.
Thanks for all the responses. I have already applied to UCAS (to expensive courses), so I can't go anywhere that uses UCAS exclusively for its applications, except for where I've applied.
I'm not really aware of how FE colleges operate, I just took a brief look at the government's course directory website. If anyone knows anywhere that offers a course that allows transfer to university chemistry, let me know.
I've looked into studying in the EU, but I will have to teach myself a language (language is a skill of mine, I could probably pick one up quicker than most people if I practised daily with a good set of tapes), otherwise my range of options for undergraduate level will be very small.
I am pretty sure that the absurd Scottish rules on tuition fees will be rectified at some point; but it doesn't really help me: it may be years away.
I'm not really aware of how FE colleges operate, I just took a brief look at the government's course directory website. If anyone knows anywhere that offers a course that allows transfer to university chemistry, let me know.
I've looked into studying in the EU, but I will have to teach myself a language (language is a skill of mine, I could probably pick one up quicker than most people if I practised daily with a good set of tapes), otherwise my range of options for undergraduate level will be very small.
I am pretty sure that the absurd Scottish rules on tuition fees will be rectified at some point; but it doesn't really help me: it may be years away.
Re: New UK tuition fees
Has the situation improved chenda?