Thoughts on developing nations

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:03 am

In my research on how to economize and lower costs, it seems that relocating to Thailand or a similar country is the best way to stretch money. This site breaks down prices quite clearly:
http://alittleadrift.com/2011/04/living ... -thailand/
This person's living on $485/mo. including rent (and a maid!), which is less than the monthly maintenance fee for my tiny 1 bedroom apartment in NYC.
What are ERErs thoughts on third-world country living?

LonerMatt · Post by **LonerMatt** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:15 am

I don't know about relocating.
But Chiang Mai is one gorgeous and amazing place.
I was living in a hostel for about $16 a week, and probably spent about $20 on food a week.

chenda · Post by **chenda** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:35 am

Its definitely a way if reaching a form of FI earlier. My only concern is that in the long term (i.e a few decades) the cost of living could start to rise and ultimately reach western levels.
Reminds me of my favourite work of fiction, The Talented Mr Ripley, where Dickie Greenleaf is living the good life in Italy on $500 a month from his trust fund. In the 1950s, the doller went a very long way in Italy, I doubt it goes very far today.
Although if your net worth is continually increasing in real terms, maybe its less of an issue.

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:54 pm

LonerMatt--what/where did you eat and when was this?

carpe_diem · Post by **carpe_diem** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:15 pm

I am also playing with the idea of spending a few years in Vietnam, Thailand, etc. and in fact was looking into Chiang Mai. One challenge is social life -- we're social animals and being in a radically different culture seems hard to reconcile with a satisfying personal life. I'm not talking about everyday friendship and acquaintances, one finds that everywhere with a little luck and effort, but rather about deep personal bonds, about cultural sharing (intellectual and artistic life, food life, etc). Anyone here with experience of a prolonged RE-style life in a radically different culture? I guess this applies particularly to people who are single.

DividendGuy · Post by **DividendGuy** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:40 pm

I've definitely thought about this. My country of choice would be the Philippines as English is widely spoken and they're fairly friendly with the visa policies. You can actually "buy" residence there. It's very cheap there, probably cheaper than Thailand. Although the lack of great, cheap food would be a downer. I've written about this on my blog and a few people who currently live or have lived in the Philippines generally agreed on the fact that you could easily live there very cheaply. I currently live on about $1100/mo in the U.S. and would think that living the same lifestyle I could probably get by on about $600/mo in the Philippines comparing apples to apples.

noskich · Post by **noskich** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:34 am

As I wrote previously my plan is Chiang Mai. There a lot of obvious benefits: faster track to ERE, experiencing different culture, tax benefits... Regarding the life as an expat: some people love it, some hate it, some don`t really mind either.

I`ve been an expat for almost 4 years and have never felt any nostalgia either for my home country nor people I know there. On the contrary, I really enjoy living as an expat and would love to live in lots of other countries.

aussierogue · Post by **aussierogue** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:55 am

I agree with the other posters.
Moving to another country for reasons of wealth is not a new thing. The most common / accepted scenario plays like this.
25-35 yearld old, western professional, gets 200-400k job offer to live as an asian expat for 3 years for large multinational trading, invesment, mining company. Proceeds to spend everything he earns on a bigger lifestyle, more frequent holidays, more prezzies for friends and family (guilt gifts) etc only to come home 3 year later with little change to their material wealth. I know this because it happened to me. Lived in Singapore for 3 years with my wife. 250k package (10 years ago), maid, condo, long hours, spent everything and infact my wealth went backwards because i put off some invesments in Australia thinking I would save a bucket in Singapore.
But high status move meant people just assumed we were smart people making smart decisisons and that we were worth visiting, admiring and copying if at all possible. People still see photo albums of our time there and I can see some jealousy despite me trying to dumb down the whole experience (i got stressedm put on weight and hated life)
The less conventional is to move for saving purposes as we are discussing now. Far less status miles in this one. More than likely to leed to derision, claims that your life is going nowhere etc when infact the move is more than reasonable and probably very effective.
As the 4 hour week points out - having the ability and willingness to move around is a major key to maintaining lifestyle in this new world of ours. Flexible addresses, felxible jobs and flexible relationships will help you live a great life.
This is not alays easy and probably falls into the ecclesiastes philosophy "there is a time for everything under the sun". If its your time - then go for it..

LiquidSapphire · Post by **LiquidSapphire** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:15 am

I've lived in now in three other countries besides the US: Australia, Italy, and Germany.
Each one got really old after about a year to me. Even Australia. I was doing telemarketing work which is really difficult to do if you have a foreign accent. I got really tired of being "different", all the damn time. I never really got over the Culture Shock in the other two places. This was one of many factors for me being unhappy. I eventually decided I'll never live outside the US again.
If you are planning on this as a huge life strategy, I would definitely plan to rent a place for 2 years first to see if it'll work for you. Sure, I loved it, for the first year. Then reality sets in.

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:56 am

Great post, aussierogue. The attitude towards foreigners in Singapore compared to Thailand or Philippines is shocking and belies the values of a consumer-oriented capitalism more than anything else.

pka222 · Post by **pka222** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:51 am

I've lived in a least developed country (LDC) for 5 years now - and love it. Sure there are issues with basics- we get power cuts, water cuts, there are minor security issues. But the upside is that I save 65% or more every month, live well, travel often, eat organic (that is what is available) and I know that I can live in stunningly beautiful places for less than it costs to live in most of the US. Also I don't get taxed in the US which means I don't have to fund military adventures anymore.

The hardest part is missing family and friends but I figure they want me to be happy, and I am - so its alright, plus I can take 5 weeks holiday and visit which means I get to see some of them more than I would if I lived in the US and had 2 weeks holiday. I would only move back to the US by choice AFTER I am FI - and then only after trying a few other places.

seeker · Post by **seeker** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:54 am

The price index gives a good idea about the price of living in different countries:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ra ... ountry.jsp
Only 83 countries ranked so far, though.

LonerMatt · Post by **LonerMatt** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:34 am

Secret Wealth - 1 week ago. Near Thapae gate (most street food is cheap, 30 baht pad thai/fried rice) even in restaurants meals are still 60 baht or so.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:05 pm

There is a travel blog I read called Almost Fearless. She is a good writer and has lived off and on in Chiang Mai.
http://almostfearless.com/2010/12/16/li ... -thailand/
They actually went back to it after more travel.
http://almostfearless.com/2011/06/27/ba ... hiang-mai/

Ego · Post by **Ego** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:47 am

Just back from several months in Thailand. We stayed on the island of Koh Samui. Absolutely beautiful and extremely inexpensive.
Next time we will stay at the Big Trees Resort http://www.bigtreesvillagesamui.com/ They specialize in long-term accommodation for FIers who need peace and quite to work on a project. They have great little bungalows for $289 per month including internet. A few minutes from the beach and far enough back to be away from the loud parties.
One of the things we liked about Samui is the fact that they have Third-World prices but first world services like a giant Tesco Super Center and first class medical facilities.

AlexK · Post by **AlexK** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:59 am

I have not lived abroad but I did spend 2 weeks in Thailand once and Japan and China on other trips. I noticed a lot of places have a price for locals and a price for foreigners. The foreigner price is at least double, sometimes 10x more (this was the case for a Thai boxing event I went to see). It's maddening.
In the US I can live very cheaply by buying used on craigslist and owning a cheap place to live. In Thailand you cannot buy used easily unless you know the language. I think you cannot own land there as a foreigner.
I'm not saying it's all bad, I had a fantastic time there, but your home country has the benefit of being a familiar culture where you don't pay the tourist price all the time.

LonerMatt · Post by **LonerMatt** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:34 am

Samui is uber expensive compared to Chiang Mai. Ko Tao was the most expensive place in Thailand.

Ego · Post by **Ego** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:29 pm

Matt, that's true. Samui is uber expensive for tourists. Hotels prices are ridiculous. But if you move just a few hundred meters back from the sea, make your own food, and live like the locals you can do one of the things I enjoy most in life.... soaking up the ambiance paid for by those tourist while actually living on a Third-world budget.

akratic · Post by **akratic** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:40 pm

I noticed a lot of places have a price for locals and a price for foreigners. The foreigner price is at least double, sometimes 10x more (this was the case for a Thai boxing event I went to see). It's maddening.

@AlexK, if you use the local couchsurfing group, you can usually find a local to help you get the better price.