Today’s Dave Ramsey article in newspaper?

[Frita]

@intellectualpersuit
Why a beetle?

[EdithKeeler]

This is a fun thread.

Back when I used to drive a lot for my job, I discovered Dave Ramsey on the radio. Usually the same stations as preachers and Rush Limbaugh. But I am old and this was before Sirius and ApplePlay..... so I listened.... and realized after a time that his advice was always the same and super simplistic. And somehow he published a couple of books with the same “Doh!” advice. And also bragged about how rich he was, not because he followed his own advice, but because he sold, sold, sold his program (thru churches, mostly) and his kickbacks from his “endorsed” financial planners, etc.

But what’s really funny to me is the number of people I’ve met who’ve told me “yeah, I signed up for the Dave Ramsey program at church, paid the hefty fee, but we just couldn’t do it.”

So on the one hand I scorn Dave Ramsey for his most basic of commonsensical advice... but on the other hand sort of shake my head that people can’t actually do it.

(Don’t get me started on what I think about Suze Orman....)

[Quadalupe]

What do you think about Suze Orman?

[Jason]

@Jason
I think Kurt Cobain would not have been moved by Dave Ramsey. Some people just don’t give two fucks about much. KC was totally in that category.

In Montage of Heck, Courtney Love stated that Kurt's goal was to get to $3 million in order that he could become a full time junkie, so from that standpoint, you are probably right and Suze Orman would have been the better call for him to make.

[IlliniDave]

I wouldn't say the Gazelle gives off the best first impression, do you want to be a herd animal? Not that it matters. I'm a "Beetle man" from 1984.

Depends on your perspective. Most importantly in this context, a gazelle is a prey species in a wide, flat, open landscape full of predators. It's pretty easy to see the parallels for a person in considerable debt trying to navigate through a landscape full of "predators" happy to prey on said person's future income. I put predators in quotes because typically the individual has more culpability in the situation than do the people/entities that wind up with their money.

[Jason]

I think we all realize Dave Ramsey is not going to confuse anyone for Robert Frost. For a talk radio host, I think Gazelle is pretty good actually. My criticism is that I remember reading "Have you ever seen a Gazelle" and I'm like how would I have ever seen a fucking gazelle, Dave. I'm from fucking New Jersey. I grew up watching assholes driving cars. Not fucking Gazelles being chased by Leopards. He should have have said "Let me tell you about a Gazelle..." Now if I was writing the book, I would have said something like "Remember The Road Runner and how he always got away from Wile E. Coyote" because you have to figure people who owe 35K on a car with a blue book value of $7K are going to know their fucking Looney Tunes.

[EdithKeeler]

What do you think about Suze Orman?

Since you asked.....

I used to sort of like her, early on. I liked her story—lower to middle class background, sort of fell into financial stuff by accident, did well, went out on her own, got screwed by a business partner iirc, and built it back up.

I read her second book, “9 Steps to Financial Freedom” and found it really valuable. I’d guess that and YMOYL probably had a significant impact on my thoughts/plans about money.

But then....Suze sold out. She wrote pretty much the same book several more times. “Women and Money” was a disappointment to me. I read part of “Young, Fabulous and Broke” and was DONE with Suze. Her TV show irritated the crap out of me.

I’ve always felt like “here’s this woman, who really made it, and could be an inspiration to other women in business and finance and could really speak to some of the serious and significant issues women face, and she’s decided to just cash in, be a “celebrity” instead of a “voice” and do bits like “No, you CAN’T afford it” instead of really getting at true issues. I just resent her because she should be better.

[Frita]

@EdithKeeler
Well said. I liked that Suzi also used the same jewelry all the time and said publicly that she did so on purpose. That prompted me to get rid of almost all of the dumb jewelry I’d been gifted, never upgrade to a fancy engagement ring (I have DH’s grandmother’s wedding band and love it because it makes a statement. People notice because it’s an Art Deco piece. I can tell them how special it is to me.), and just wear the same stuff daily. That strategy was easily applied to so many other things. Twenty years later and it’s saved me tons of time and money. From that example alone, I do wonder what happened to make her go to the dark side.

[unemployable]

What do you think about Suze Orman?

She hates FIRE. And likes girls.

[IlliniDave]

... I remember reading "Have you ever seen a Gazelle" and I'm like how would I have ever seen a ... gazelle, Dave. I'm from ... New Jersey.

Ha, well Dave is from Tennessee. He saw them on TV and says as much. One of the things that makes me tire of DR is he tends to repeat himself over and over. But I guess I can see why he does it given how often people come away with inaccurate perceptions.

Sounds like the same is true for Orman. Personally I've never read/heard/watched her.

I see people getting frustrated with both her and DR. I think you have to understand the respective niches people like them have filled. It is sort of like going back to hear your favorite grade school teacher teach year after year over decades, then getting frustrated because he/she is still teaching the same grade level/curriculum.

[Jason]

One thing I do like about Dave is that no matter how ridiculous the situation his callers have found themselves in, he never derides nor shames them. And that must be hard at times. Some of the stories are just WTF at an excruciating level. I get the feeling that when he pulls out his pencil and starts running the numbers he just wants to say "God, you are fucked for a million lifetimes" but he doesn't. I may be wrong, but he seems genuinely empathetic. And I've never heard him whip out the gazelle reference live.

To some extent, it reminds me of the time I was in a study group and there was this camp counselor. You know, the type of guy who wears jorts in the middle of winter. The type of guy who's apartment you were afraid to go in because you just figured it had shit it in that would make you wonder if you had to call the police. It became obvious that he had read one book in his life because he kept on referencing it. That's how I see Dave with the gazelle. Just sitting in his apartment in Tennessee, beer in hand, channel surfing and stumbling across a nature channel and spotting a bunch of gazelles running across the screen and just having some type of ridiculous epiphany one has when they are alone at night, drinking beer and channel surfing in Tennessee.