Careful what you wish for?

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Mikeallison
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:26 am

Careful what you wish for?

Post by Mikeallison »

Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse without realizing it.
Yet there is no country and no people, I think, who can look forward to the age of leisure and of
abundance without a dread. For we have been trained too long to strive and not to enjoy. It is a
fearful problem for the ordinary person, with no special talents, to occupy himself, especially if
he no longer has roots in the soil or in custom or in the beloved conventions of a traditional
society. To judge from the behaviour and the achievements of the wealthy classes today in any
quarter of the world, the outlook is very depressing! For these are, so to speak, our advance
guard-those who are spying out the promised land for the rest of us and pitching their camp
there. For they have most of them failed disastrously, so it seems to me-those who have an
independent income but no associations or duties or ties-to solve the problem which has been set
them.
excerpt from Keynes essay "economic possibilities of our grandchildren."

https://assets.aspeninstitute.org/conte ... tion_I.pdf

Reading the thread about FIRE catching on as a mainstream phenomenon made me remember this. Maybe most people would be better off using a plan geared toward semi-ERE, where you save enough to cover a portion of your bills passively, and have a comfortable safety cushion (Fuck you money?), then just pull the trigger and work a part time job. More attainable than full early retirement extreme where you cover 100% expenses, maybe more desirable for Joe Average? (Also adds another layer of insurance by keeping you in the workforce if stuff goes badly on the investment side.)

There are a surprising number of "retired" boomers in my village that work part-time, not because they really need to, but because they are bored and adrift without some work.


Another copy and paste quote for good measure
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
― Blaise Pascal, Pensées

chenda
Posts: 3290
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Careful what you wish for?

Post by chenda »

I read this essay some years ago, it's a good read. Semi-ERE is what I did.

UK-with-kids
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:55 am
Location: Oxbridge, UK

Re: Careful what you wish for?

Post by UK-with-kids »

Bored and adrift aren't the same problem. I know people who get bored just from having a day or two off from their job. Then others who are completely free of work but still feel completely overwhelmed by day to day chores and projects. Both groups can be lacking in direction and I'm worried I'd be in the latter camp. I never get bored and always have hundreds of things on my "to do" list and lots of projects I'd like to spend time on. But sometimes I don't seem to follow through properly unless I have someone managing my progress. That's a bit of a worry as it means I could get caught up in "busyness" after I retire, but not really achieve much by any measure.

Jin+Guice
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:15 am

Re: Careful what you wish for?

Post by Jin+Guice »

To me this is one of the main problems faced by the early retiree. Going from working 40+ hours a week (plus commuting and all of the other bullshit you have to do for work) to total freedom is going to be a huge shock to most people! Working is also the main source of meaning, productivity and social interaction for most people. I think some people have trouble going against the grain too, "normal" people your own age will all be working during the day.

It's not secret that I feel semi-ERE is the superior method. Working in small doses, especially with fuck you money in the bank, is a great way to have your cake and eat it too. It's a way to introduce yourself to the pleasures and pitfalls of early retirement slowly.

Campitor
Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Careful what you wish for?

Post by Campitor »

I think most people are passive passengers in their own life. They are used to having most if not all personal decisions and circumstances controlled by outside forces rather than taking responsibility for the things within their influence. I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a retiree. This person mentioned being at a lunch with other retirees and they were all lamenting how lonely life had become after retiring. So I asked "So why aren't all of you getting together more frequently or forming a mutual social club that meets regularly?" They now meet habitually but it seemed weird that they couldn't connect those dots by themselves.

If you're bored then find something that isn't boring. And when that get's boring, move onto something else, rinse and repeat. And in my opinion, most people are insecure so they're afraid of making themselves vulnerable to meeting new people or doing new things. Fear of being afraid and vulnerable makes life boring.

And people need to learn how to be by themselves - introspection, silence, and personal hobbies are character building and round out life.

IlliniDave
Posts: 3845
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Careful what you wish for?

Post by IlliniDave »

Last fall I took a trial run at retirement by taking the entire month of September off. It was a smashing success! Perhaps it depends on how much a person's self-identity is based on their profession/occupation, or their job is the basis for their integration into a social structure. Me being an independent introvert, semi-retirement (where the "semi-" aspect is mandatory) I imagine to be rather more stressful than just working or just being FI.

Laura Ingalls
Posts: 668
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:13 am

Re: Careful what you wish for?

Post by Laura Ingalls »

IlliniDave wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:01 am
Last fall I took a trial run at retirement by taking the entire month of September off. It was a smashing success! Perhaps it depends on how much a person's self-identity is based on their profession/occupation, or their job is the basis for their integration into a social structure. Me being an independent introvert, semi-retirement (where the "semi-" aspect is mandatory) I imagine to be rather more stressful than just working or just being FI.
I think my household counts as semi-retired. I find it way less stressful than my prior job which was also part-time. It helps that DH and I have flexible gigs. We aren’t able to wander the earth right now the inflexible part is having kids in public school. I can’t just leave them home by themselves (as a brief experiment was a fail).

It decreases my anxiety about market gyrations. It decreases our SWR to a rate that should be good in perpetuity. It also adds refundable tax credits as an income stream :lol:

In other words I’d recommend it :)

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