Spiraling out of Control

The "other" ERE. Societal aspects of the ERE philosophy. Emergent change-making, scale-effects,...
daylen
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Spiraling out of Control

Post by daylen »

I reached to grasp a beige rock while gasping for air.
The frenzy turned to dance caught by the purple moon glare.
I reached for a red blade and banner to lead through to the sun.
The heat melted blades and erected barriers to the blue wave fun.
I reached across to shovel and sift the soil orange with hidden ore caches.
The search for the hidden blinded to how the green foliage patched us.

I reached but could not quite touch the yellow stars that shined before.
The refraction of the sun penetrated a turquoise sky and now we are touched for after.
Here lie the start of a much anticipated thread on spiral dynamics. Note that this is not a thread for moralizing or politics. This thread is meant to introduce the concepts and framework generated from the model as well as offer a space for speculation in how such a framework can be extended or modulated within the emergent renaissance ecology. That is, at the end of the day, no stage or color is bad and every individual has the right to identify or organize their thoughts/feelings however they desire. The map is most definitely not the territory, and humans are much too complex to be grasped in their entirety. On the other hand, the asymmetry of power between individuals and corporations leads to what Jordan Hall calls a "strip mining of the soul", whereby ML algorithms and specialized teams are reducing the human mind to manageable/predictable components which are sold to the highest bidder. With powerful tech comes great opportunity and risk.

Our interiors have been lagging behind our exteriors. Fueling a trend towards the reduction of human culture for computer understanding, though humans are not so easily seduced. The niche of homo sapiens sapiens is niche creation and although we have spread our range globally and beyond, there is still much that could be opened up within us that dwarfs the surfaces we project. In an adaptive landscape, there can be any number of nearby peaks to be punctuated/reached. Valley crossing symbolized by something like the Theory U model below.

Image

Below is an AQAL chart that maps other systems onto SD. One being the Kegan model discussed on the forum prior(*): viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9972

(*) The recurring pattern being that we are currently "In Over Our Heads", hence the title of this thread. :)

Image

Generally speaking, a stage model can be constructed through use of the pre/trans fallacy. Pick a signifier of development (i.e. rationality), then a stage model fits onto pre-rational, rational, trans-rational whereby an agent at the rationality stage will conflate pre-rational and trans-rational. With this rule of thumb, you may start to experiment with the space of stage-theories, inducing a plurality that helps to ward off overconfidence and bias in self and other assessment. Such assessment probably shouldn't be the primary use of such tools. More than anything, I have found such tools to give pointers towards my own shadow material. Another use being to catch culture at large up with our algorithms. The interpretation crisis perhaps aided by a depth and breath of interior complexity. Though, one thought I cannot quite shake is how these models could potentially be used by the algorithms. The redeeming hope perhaps being their innately human design in dealing with color and shape rather than domino towers made of micro-polarizations.
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daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by daylen »

Some context from another thread:
Jacob wrote:BTW one of the SD assertions is that the human brain innately possesses the ability to manifest all the colors. It's just that a particular human (internal individual) or culture (internal collective) has not been in an environment conducive to manifesting [the next color] (yet).

As such individual and collective evolution happens slowly and typically in a daisy-chained fashion (requiring transcending the previous level of complexity).

Another assertion I found fascinating was that Tier 2 repeats Tier 1, e.g. yellow is complex beige, turquoise is complex purple, coral... then is complex red, ...

This suggests "where to look" to see where coral is. The search for an aesthetical (which I consider blue) would happen after coral.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by daylen »

Perhaps one important insight being that there has never been a time where humans were not in bands/tribes. Long before individuals were thought to have "unalienable rights", bands of humans acted more as one cohesive unit. If the band lineage died out, so did the individuals in it except perhaps in rare(?) cases of inter-band transfer. At purple the tribal tendency for people to be either with or against you is strong. Eventually, as humans started to cluster together near rivers and other high-fertility areas, red started to emerge more as an individualist swing of the pendulum became more viable in an environment which surpassed Dunbar's number (roughly 150 people). As not everyone knew everyone else and thus problems could arise which could not be solved through prior means (purple campfire bonding). Especially as several of these 150+ tribes started to cluster together and compete for resources. Leading eventually to tribes populating a whole bio-region. At which point the ongoing tribal warfare tended to transition into a blue order supported by the scriptures/memories of such wars.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Humans are out-breeders at genetic level, so mating/marriage outside of band would have to be extremely common at all times. The genetic drift evidence is that females usually left band of origin. This may have happened in friendly cultural trade at tribal or inter-tribal level and/or due to "marriages of the right-hand*" in which brides were taken in battle from other bands or tribes. This remains a common theme in modern romance-erotic genre.


*as opposed to contractual marriages symbolized with ring on left-hand.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by daylen »

[Do not feel the need to do extensive research before commenting on this thread. As the field of human development is still quite new and thus could benefit from the concerns and suggestions of those who are unfamiliar.]

Resources

"Spiral Dynamics: mastering values, leadership, and change" by Don Edward Beck and Christopher C. Cowan

"Integral Psychology: consciousness, spirit, psychology, therapy" by Ken Wilber

"In Over Our Heads: the mental demands of modern life" and "The Evolving Self: problem and process in human development" by Robert Kegan

Cook Greuter's lengthy paper on a nine-stage model of ego development derived/tested with sentence completion research: http://www.cook-greuter.com/Cook-Greute ... 97p[1].pdf

There is much more to be explored. The origins of the field going back at least to Piaget and Maslow. There are numerous parallels from less euro-centric origins going back hundreds or even thousands of years(?). Many of these being laid out in the book "Integral Psychology" above.
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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@7w5 One thing I am trying to work out is what the Beige -> Purple transition looks like. As if we take a band to be 5-20 people and a tribe to be 100-200 people, then perhaps 50,000+ years ago(?) before the emergence of purple there was plenty of hunting territory to go around but not as much camping territory. So, the bands may have scrawled along the river in camps but perhaps didn't interact much beyond mating exchange? Then, once the river became crowded, perhaps purple started to emerge in that inter-band bonding was more common? Jared Diamond's work in Papua New Guinea seems salient here.
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daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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Also salient to this being Robert Sapolsky's work on primates. In particular how early human culture is some mix of Chimpanzee and Bonobo culture.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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From the language lens, pre-verbal matching up with beige survive mode where spontaneous sex is a central feature. With the development of purple into verbalization that more clearly signals sexual intention? Leading to more nuanced exchanges around the campfire that preserve true and false intentions/extensions across time. With the word of mouth appearing like magic, heightened in intensity during the sensory deprivation of night. An activation magic into an atmospheric vibe of dance, music, play, and inter-band exchange.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

The first human art (indication of Purple?) was only around 50,000 years ago, and the Chimpanzee and Bonobo lineage splits were over 9 million years ago. It seems like even a reptile could be Beige, so maybe Beige to Purple is just the emergence of homo sapiens sapiens?

Cross-post: I can't remember what I was reading, but developed argument that brain-hand-social development preceded brain-verbal-social development. Why we still spontaneously gesture when we speak.

"Myths of the Archaic State: Evolution of the Earliest Cities, States, and Civilizations" by Norman Yoffee is now on my pile. Might lend some insight.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by daylen »

This may also be seen in Chimpanzee/Bonobo cultures where there seems to be indication of handedness based on a quick Google search(*). Also seems that based on a complexity analysis of the vocal system that something like singing would necessarily emerge before something like the vocalizations we respond to now (i.e. typically more symmetries and redundancies in music). Further evidence perhaps being my own personal experience with psychedelics that took me back to basic body movement during intense trips that seemed to knock the vocals out of me. Leading to an endurance of bodily metaphors for my understanding/grounding of abstract theory. For instance, the stemming of left versus right hand grasp/release into left/right brain branching into denotative/connotative. If the language of gaps is cut-off, understanding through embodiment persist and re-generates the trees.

(*) I wonder if there is a major preferential-hand difference between various primates?

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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by jacob »

daylen wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:33 pm
@7w5 One thing I am trying to work out is what the Beige -> Purple transition looks like.
The eventual turning of mental fallacies and biases into ritual. E.g. the construction of Jungian archetypes due innate pattern matching viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12095 . Confirmation bias turning synchronicity into "The Secret".

Purple (unlike Turquoise) is undisciplined pattern matching. Anything goes. Everything is accepted.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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Yes, so the cyclic view of time enters the story at purple, revealing/conjuring symmetries of past/future. Spirits are quite literally reincarnated in each waking cycle. The subtleties may go unnoticed or otherwise energize an amplification of such symmetries/synchronies. On the other hand, righteousness emerges from the asymmetries revealed/conjured of past/future. Emerging into the red arrow of time, growth/decay across cycles as a centering motivation.

Also ties in with the left hand path oriented more towards aesthetics, whereas the right hand path avoids clouding the vision ahead/behind. I could just be digging a deeper hole in which to die in, though. ;)

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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by jacob »

daylen wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Also ties in with the left hand path oriented more towards aesthetics, whereas the right hand path avoids clouding the vision ahead/behind. I could just be digging a deeper hole in which to die in, though. ;)
Maybe we should pick a hill somewhere ...
On the gripping hand ... curses turtles ...

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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by Dream of Freedom »

Genetic testing shows the modern human version of the Foxp2 gene (a gene theorized to be involved in language development) to have become widespread around 150,000 years ago. Since language and magical thinking are both forms of abstraction maybe they showed up around the same time. Plus going from groups of 50 to 150 requires gossip.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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I hear corals are in trouble, though I cannot help but wonder about the possibility deep into the blue. As the viscous and spacious cold flow may eventually harbor cyborg mermaids, so to speak, that awaken in a hot wave of controlled fury to re-coralate.

In non-poetic terms.. what if there is a chance of AI merging with the human form to open up a niche in the ocean. Perhaps eventually leading to a coral appearance mirroring red with long-asymmetric-cyclic views to keep gaia(*) viable. If nothing else, this makes for a fascinating sci-fi narrative. :)

(*) That is, the root of life on Earth. Supposedly, all multi-cellular organisms could go extinct and single-celled organisms could re-evolve towards complex lineage trees once again.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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Seems like the deep sea coral hypothesis would only be viable upon fusion power unlock. Though, in that case it could potentially lead to an ocean-wide colonization that controls fusion-access and thus nearly all the energy required to fuel and keep happy the land population(*). Tier two blue emerging to keep this somewhat isolated ocean civilization be-float(+). Tier two orange emerging when a star-faring, sea-dwelling civilization is required to keep the rare metals circulating. Tier two green emerging that somehow keeps the solar or even galaxy wide populous in check (perhaps requiring a physical theory and engineering capacity beyond relativity). Tier three emerging at the peak of galaxy cluster colonization with the bulk of sexually-reproducing orgasmic population living in/as collective, volving worms/nets of ring-like asteroid mining colonies/ships.

That spiraled quickly.

(*) Matrix all over again.

(+) That is, synergizing further with whatever game B is.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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Spirals, Types, States, Lines
So, my thinking is that each of these classes of models can appear to be under or over fitted relative to each other. One agent may declare developmental spirals as primary and another may declare personality types as primary. Or even if no such declaration is made, when pushed to teach, an agent will tend to default to their preference as the rest falls into place. Thus, I am imagining an ecosystem of thinkers with different starting places that begin the process of interweaving with an ebb and flow between over and under fitting of each model class.

I suspect that something like [ (point,frame), fit, actuate, (polarize,harmonize), unionize ] and CCCCCC are both more line-like as they generalize paths to skill acquisition. Though, a case could also be made for the former being state-like as they can be drawn with a distinct topology. I figure that states can be introduced as ways of shading agent diagrams where a gross state has a singular shade/shadow and a subtle state has a plurality of shades/shadows. Perhaps then a casual state being like a rapidly spinning quasar with two inexplicably linked poles. May do some diagramming later to demonstrate this.

As for type models, there are several forms to pursue, namely neo-Jungian, enneagramic, masculinity/femininity, quadra[-tic], and so forth. One of my side projects being to integrate quadras with enneagram (i.e. social and bodily attractors), leading to quadra-enneagram flow charts that can display a given civil state.

For spirals, a double helix topology could be used by combining two spirals split by a two-type model. With the warm colors signifying more of a masculine(?) style and the cool colors signifying more of a feminine(?) style. With a fairly standard type-space being (up,down) X (left,right) X (front,back) matching up to (i,e) X (denote,connote) X (judge,perceive). Where it would seem that a common alignment of the masculine/feminine being that masculinity is more introverted, more denotative, and more judgmental whereas femininity is more extroverted, more connotative, and more perceptive. That is, the male vector of the nervous system is more up-left-front directed and the female vector is more down-right-back directed. Though, this is clearly just one interpretation and is subject to branching. For instance, the left-right direction can flip do to a focus on handedness versus hemisphericalness.

Another interesting note being that a double-helix model would account for both chiralities. Which may play a part in setting up the overall space.

daylen
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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With my highest uncertainty bars associating with how extroversion/introversion splits between males and females. As some extroverted traits are linked more to men and some are linked more to women (i.e. thrill seeking for men and compassion for women).

Also, the up/down dimension may have more of a pivot at the brain stem where extroversion is going outwards from and introversion is going inwards to. Thus, there are many nuisances that can lead to confusion but may also suggest class synergies. For instance, the spine potentially linking spirals/helices with enneagram and the up/down dimension of the nervous system. As you can see, I tend to aim for basic bodily metaphors as they travel around with me (i.e. unless visiting disembodied, mystical dimensions :) ).

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Re: Spiraling out of Control

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If starting with spirals as primary, then an agent may prefer a strong version of the "transcend and include" constraint. With a weaker version being something like "temporarily transcend and generally include". Another option for a double-helix form may be "epitomize and subdue", where perhaps the (gross,subtle) state distinction can be descriptive of how a warm-dominated agent integrates the cool colors and vice-versa. That is, an agent may be grossly warm with subtle, cool flavors or an agent may be grossly cool with subtle, warm flavors. Another constraint perhaps related to progression/regression where agents tend not to progress in the spiral with path-independent regression. In other words, an agent may generally regress due to mental illness but they will likely still display hints at their prior developmental path (i.e. through selection of conversation topics or whatnot).

The major assumption underlying type theories being that agents generally do not change type throughout their lives. Such can form an invariant backbone to a variable spiral, state, or line model. With perhaps some synergy relating to how type presents itself more apparently at the fitting-stage of a line model or in its gross representation with a state model. Various different curves(*) may be used to aid intuition for type across lifespan where agents that are trying to find their place in the greater, world-context may be prone to more over and under fitting in various developmental lines.

(*) See overview of such here in my journal: viewtopic.php?p=247316#p247316

A line model having clear beginning and end points, as it is hard to confuse no skill with skill mastery. Though, there may be some overlap here with an alternative form of pre/trans fallacy since mastery may appear very loosely structured to the partially dogmatic eye of an apprentice.

State models tending to be mutually exclusive in time. As you either are in a state or not and if you are in a particular state then you cannot be in another. Also tending to align with sleep-wake cycles and thus a state of one kind or another is always active.
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7Wannabe5
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Re: Spiraling out of Control

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Introversion/extroversion isn’t as gender linked as pro-social behavior. Across all age groups and cultures, on average, females exhibit more pro-social behaviors such as sharing and co-operation. Recent research in education and group dynamics also indicates that pro-social behaviors are necessary condition for emergence of group intelligence that is greater than that of most intelligent member.

So I think it is likely that Cool colors represent development of pro-social behaviors rather than just extroverted take on development. For instance, marshmallow test level 2 might be display enough self-discipline to secure the second marshmallow then share second marshmallow with friend. Toddlers share impulsively, but the development of rational functioning towards self-interest in adolescence results in phase where pro-social behaviors decline. IOW, the more rational thought a human applies to whether or not to share, the less likely they will do it, but this is counter-productive to full development of group intelligence over longer run.

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