The Rise of Plastic Surgery in America?

[TopHatFox]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 100365258/

I've been thinking - It's mind boggling to consider the proliferation of plastic surgery in the US. It's like, as a collective we ignore the basics of eating healthful food and exercising, but at the same time want large boobs and a tummy tuck. Even some of my friends at the age of 23-25 have considered getting a nose job. I get that beauty is a cache of power, but damn, the risks can be pretty high if someone botches your body or face. And what about the desire for the perfect smile? Orthodontia can help with creating a functional smile, but then there's also gum and teeth contouring, not to mention veneers.

And on top of all of these procedures--which celebrities almost all have in every movie/show--there's Photoshop and other software to make these walking patients look even more perfect. It's enough to make Sally's head explode as she's walking down the grocery isle. I cannot stress enough how many perfectly pretty yet insecure women I have met.

Plastic surgery does have its saving graces, however. For example, reconstructive surgery after an accident. Or aesthetic surgery to help a trans person present as their gender identity and sex. It's also a powerful lever in helping someone feel confident in their appearance, get a high-paying job, and a good-looking partner in a competitive environment.

What's your take - should plastic surgery be used? Have you considered getting any procedure(s) done? Would you ever, even with age? What kind of sociological effects do you think its increase is having? Where do you see the trend going?

[TopHatFox]

And in men it seems: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /90268662/

V. interesting

[pukingRainbows]

I used to be pretty disdainful about it and thought it was just another manifestation of how vain people are, however I've changed my thinking more recently.

I was looking at before and after pictures of Koreans who had plastic surgery done and where before they were ugly, now they are not, or at least less so. Seeing that side of things, where it's people just trying to look fairly attractive made me rethink my ideas on plastic surgery.

Some people are born attractive and some are not. And I can't begrudge people for wanting to be in the attractive category.

I see a lot of people, myself included, who previously didn't care at all about their appearance, slowly putting more effort into it as we get older and less able to rely on our youthful good looks. For me, it's trying to shave once a week, and for others it might be dying their hair or expensive skin creams. Eventually who knows what it will end up being.

In any case, I find myself trying not to judge others too harshly when it comes to plastic surgery.

[TopHatFox]

Yeah, I hear you. Some people have benefitting genetics and look great, and others don't - no matter how hard they try. It's a mostly reliable way of evening out the playing field. But what about when the standard of beauty is inflated to the point where everyone needs plastic surgery to compete? I remember in college and high school kids' anxiety levels were through the roof based on factors they couldn't control. (e.g. height, chin, nose)

It's all very tempting. Still, I have an eery feeling that there are serious negative side-effects at a societal and potentially at the individual level. I wonder who are the people that get the surgery. Is it the rich, is it the middle class? Really interesting questions.

[George the original one]

I wonder who are the people that get the surgery. Is it the rich, is it the middle class?

Of the people I know who have had elective surgery, they are middle class or lower middle class. A stripper getting breast enlargements and nose job for her career (effective). Middle age women getting facelifts (effective at removing wrinkles, but not necessarily achieving what they hoped for). Women of all ages getting breast reductions (effective for removing back strain, questionable for being taken more seriously, and questionable for reducing breast cancer risk). Women of all ages getting eyelid tattoos to eliminate using mascara (er?!?). Men & women getting stomachs sized smaller (ineffective for permanent weight loss and has side effects). Men & women having cornea surgery to avoid wearing corrective lenses (usually effective, but not always). Men & women getting dental implants (effective). Men & women have their ears bobbed, usually in their childhood, so the ears don't stick out like handles (effective).

I don't know of anyone who acknowledge undergoing liposuction and I don't run around with the crowd who get grills or other dental bling. Apart from the stripper, I can't think of anyone who I know that got a nose job, either.

[Laura Ingalls]

I work a part-time job dealing with the public in the most affluent zip code in my state. I see lots of fur coats in the winter and lots of dubiously effective plastic surgery. I guess the people who had work done and it “worked “ well just look attractive and the so-so work just looks obvious. Not for me. I decided circa 2015 that I was not going to color my hair anymore. I can’t fathom a facelift.

I would disagree that breast reduction or dental implants are cosmetic. I had a dental implant done 10 years ago. My options were hole in my head forever and dealing with my teeth shifting potentially for 50-60 more years or getting an implant. I got the implant and I feel privileged/thankful that I could afford it.

[TopHatFox]

@Laura, good points. I meant veneers in the cosmetic dentistry, not a crown or a root canal. The latter are very useful for eating food

[Jason]

I noticed a transition in my former dentist's office as he moved from emphasizing the medical side of dentistry (don't get cavities) to the cosmetic side of dentistry (look like a TV weatherperson) and continued to expand his services in that direction, including botox injections. This perked up my inner stock picker and my wife and I started doing some research and we actually made a successful play on a small medical company that produced a tattoo removal technology. It got bought and we made a nice little gain.

I think for many reasons, including both electing at younger ages, increasing life spans, reduction of costs it will only become more democratized and this sector will provide for some great investing opportunities. And this includes bariatrics. We live in a country where you can now have every meal at McDonald's and then have your insurance company pay to suck it back out.

[Scott 2]

If someone wants to cut themselves up to feel better, more power to them. I hope they go into it understanding the risks.

Certainly there are bounds where judgement is easy - times of medical necessity vs. doctors exploiting insecurities to maximize profit.

I doubt I'd be willing to pay the money or undergo the pain.

[Campitor]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 100365258/

I've been thinking - It's mind boggling to consider the proliferation of plastic surgery in the US.

There are approximately 300 million people in the US and approximately 244 million are of adult age (18+). The total of all invasive procedures is 894,844. If we ASSUME that each procedure was performed on a unique patient and not on the same patient, only 4% of the population has had an invasive procedure.

If we add the non-invasive to the invasive procedure sum we get 11,731,795 total procedures. Again if we assume each procedure was done to a unique patient, only 5.2% of the adult population has had plastic surgery. Not exactly an avalanche of plastic surgery given the total adult population numbers.

[Peanut]

I read a while ago that the recession prompted more men to get plastic surgery than ever before in order to look younger when competing for jobs. Makes sense although it's a sad commentary on our society.

Lest I be a hypocrite though I'll confess I actually plan to try Botox in the near future. Perhaps some lasering of the skin too. It's anti-ere behavior for sure but I don't like that my face is showing wrinkles for the first time etc. My whole life I've been told I look much younger than I am and while it was annoying when I was in my 20s I realize now I'm not ready to let it go. And hey maybe it will also help me find a job down the road.

I like the profit angle Jason mentioned. I should pursue that to pay for my procedures.

[bryan]

Is it very different from getting a tatoo? Dying your hair? Wearing certain clothes for the fashion points?

I'm a fan of body modification (i.e. cyborg aka cybernetic organism). I have a growing list of cool body mods that would seemingly improve my life in some ways (e.g. improved poop regulation, never having to wipe again).

One main drawback of the ERE approach to personal finances is that it's not very compatible with certain hobbies, interests. It seemingly optimizes for retirement above most things, so you can't very simply go out and splurge on a new cybernetic limb (or build one) or what have you.

[Jason]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 100365258/

I've been thinking - It's mind boggling to consider the proliferation of plastic surgery in the US.

only 5.2% of the adult population has had plastic surgery.

I think the follow-up question is "How many adults were getting it done x amount of years ago" and to see the increase over time. The question "Did she get plastic surgery" used to be a question limited to the likes of Elizabeth Taylor. Now's its your favorite stripper or aunt, which I guess could be the same person or at least someone you wished was the same person. Similar to divorce, which was also limited to the Hollywood crowd, it took time to reach the mainstream and then it exploded as it became de-stigmatized.

Speak to any doctor and they will mention how dermatology has become one of the most lucrative fields in the medical profession. It wasn't always that way. People wanting all types of skin treatments, or suffering the affects of over tanning. Everybody concerned with their appearance. Reducing that, enlarging that. Expanding that, tightening that. I'm surprised anything fits anymore.

[Kriegsspiel]

Is it very different from getting a tatoo? Dying your hair? Wearing certain clothes for the fashion points?

I'm a fan of body modification (i.e. cyborg aka cybernetic organism). I have a growing list of cool body mods that would seemingly improve my life in some ways (e.g. improved poop regulation, never having to wipe again).

One main drawback of the ERE approach to personal finances is that it's not very compatible with certain hobbies, interests. It seemingly optimizes for retirement above most things, so you can't very simply go out and splurge on a new cybernetic limb (or build one) or what have you.

What. That sounds awesome.

[saving-10-years]

There was a programme on BBC Radio 4 last week which looked at the work of Jonathan Yeo (an artist who paints cosmetic surgery in progress). Exhibition coming up.

Two things came up in his conversations with the plastic surgeon (Dr Berry) that were interesting to this discussion. He tells about another surgeon coming in and seeing some pics of implants in a patient and saying '2005!' as that was the date when those particular style of implants were fashionable. So people have implants and then can go under the knife for different implants later (fashions change). Worrying. He noted that women used to come to him (the surgeon that is) to ask for liposuction on buttocks and now he has requests for bigger buttocks.

On the other side the person who was being operated on in this clip is transgender so having breast removal and without nipples. That sounds sort of practical and perhaps political? If you are quitting being a woman you will have an even more manly chest without nipples? Action Man as role model?

The mortality rate of 'gluteal augmentation with autologous fat' (injecting fat into buttocks) is mentioned in the programme. Here is an article on this trend and the consequences in the states. https://academic.oup.com/asj/article/37/7/796/3075249 Its really for fashion only and it can be fatal. And this is a procedure which is often done by 'non-core' physicians (i.e. many who do this style of surgery are not qualified as plastic surgeons).

Here is the link to the radio prog recording http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0607db6 if you want to listen. (Perhaps not at work as there is a picture of breasts marked for surgery on the landing page).

Good plastic surgeons can do great, life changing work e.g. with victims of burns/accidents or those with birth defects (thinking https://www.smiletrain.org/ in particular here). But spending your skills repairing or re-doing unnecessary surgery, especially only for fashion must be quite hard work.

[Jason]

https://nypost.com/video/human-barbie-s ... surgeries/

I actually couldn't make it through this video as I found it too disturbing. I guess there is no "has anyone ever told you that you are completely fucking insane" box on the questionnaire form at the plastic surgeon's office. It raises questions as to the body dysmorphics but I guess if they have enough balance remaining on their credit card, its not the doctor's problem.

[EdithKeeler]

I used to be in the “no way would I have plastic surgery” group. I am, however, getting older and my views are evolving. I’ve been losing weight (yay) and it’s becoming clear I’m going to have some loose skin. I may opt to have that tightened at some point, but the surgery is not without significant risks, so it will require some heavy consideration. I’ve actually technically HAD plastic surgery—I had a squamous skin cancer removed from my face and had that fixed—didn’t want to go thru life with a 2 inch hole under my eye.

There’s pretty good evidence that better looking, thinner people make more money, so I can see that for some people it may make sense to them to have a nose job or whatever. I’m generally pretty happy with my appearance, but there are people out there who are probably by almost any measure, (this sounds mean...) just ugly, and it takes a bit more than a new hair style and some makeup to fix it. I say go for it that’s what they want to do.

My biggest issue, though, is that much plastic surgery seems obvious. In other words—I wouldn’t want anything done to my face that screams “plastic surgery!” I’m not sure we’re to the point that all cosmetic surgery is good, you know?

[EdithKeeler]

I wanted to add that aging is probably contributing to the rise of some surgeries. My mom (age 81) needs to have blepheroplasty, where they tighten up your eyelids. The heaviness of the droopy skin is actually starting to impair her vision. Not an uncommon problem among older people.

[Jason]

improved poop regulation, never having to wipe again).

What. That sounds awesome.

What's your blueprint on this? I picture little windshield wiper like implants that pop out of each cheek. With speed and water options. And replaceable blades. Now that I think about it, I'm really surprised the Japanese haven't come out with this yet as it seems like the type of thing they would come up with.

[TopHatFox]

My biggest issue, though, is that much plastic surgery seems obvious. In other words—I wouldn’t want anything done to my face that screams “plastic surgery!” I’m not sure we’re to the point that all cosmetic surgery is good, you know?

Yeah, I definitely think that the more attractive, well-dressed, fit people are the one's in the board rooms. It's a fascinating phenomenon. There is always the risk that it'll look fake unfortunately. By extension, ERE allows us the freedom to be ugly hahahah~~~~