The other battle

[J_]

Just like financial independence is one of the main goals of ere, to become/stay fit and healthy (for sofar it is within your reach, as some of us have from the beginning not a healthy body) is an other main goal.
Seen in a lifetime both (fi and good health) are not a given, you have to study and to have the discipline to reach and maintain them. I focus here on the life-during-effort to maintain/strive for good health.
I notice that people around me have too often one or more ailments which could possibly be avoided if they had been more keen to to live healthy. This is nothing new, but to me, it seems that it is hardly understood or aware by many young man and women, say under 35. By the time they are 50 they find it almost impossible to change their lifestyle and by 55 or earlier it results in ailments, often irreparable.
Good health (in your sixties, seventies and on) is a blessing worth to battle for. It is a kind of delayed gratification for (extreme?) early efforts to study about nutrition, care how to use your body and to implement this knowledge by eating well and to sport in good dosages.
It is a battle or, better said, effort which never stops. But just like it becomes a second nature in ere to sober spending it becomes a second nature to chose only food that contribute to your health and to stay active so that your body stays souple and keeps stamina.
So I ask the forum do you spend as much time and effort to reach/maintain fi as you spend time and effort to become/stay fit and healthy?

[7Wannabe5]

@J_:

Do you think it becomes impossible to change lifestyle at midlife or that is just when the fact that it was impossible to change lifestyle earlier becomes evident?

Example. I briefly dated a super-fit for his age (58) ESTP a couple years ago. He rode his bike miles every night, went to the gym a few times/week, and generally led a very active,very social life. Somehow the topic of what we did when we were kids came up, and he told me that when he was a kid he rode his bike all day and hung out with his friends. Although I very much appreciated his lifestyle maintenance of athletic fitness in some realms, he did not have enough books in his house to be somebody I would want to date long-term.

When I was a kid, I walked to the penny candy store and then I walked to the library.

[J_]

@7wnb5: I think that you can change at every age. At the same time we see in our discussions that change in lifestyle or point of view is apparently difficult for us. But Wannabee: do you spent as much effort to stay healthy as to stay/become fi?
For myself I notice that I must concentrate and pay attention (much) more on keeping my (luckily) good shape and health than to maintain my fi funds.

[Farm_or]

This is fitting reading as I am currently sitting here recovering from a sprained ankle.( Moving too much hay in too little time.)

Injuries and sickness have been a catalyst for examining life choices. Not just personally, but others around me (empathy). My earliest childhood memory that impacted my decision to put my personal health #1 on the priority list was spending all day and all night at hospitals with my chronic sick grandfather.

Since then, I have been a health but by most people standard. Racing mountain bike was a celebration of health that I particularly enjoyed until my last major crash. I lay there in the dust, taking inventory of damage between quick short breathes because I was wretching in pain and seeing stars. I had no real lasting injury, but I was alone and miles from civilization. I perpetually wore out riding partners.

Then and right now I am reconsidering my choices. But I suppose it's much better to recover from acute injury resulting from good health than never to recover from a chronic illness due to bad health choices.

I'll never have all the answers, but I am sure that I am no good to myself and others around me if I am not in optimal health. Being healthy allows you to serve others. Serving others is love. Love is an essential ingredient for happiness.

[7Wannabe5]

I'll never have all the answers, but I am sure that I am no good to myself and others around me if I am not in optimal health. Being healthy allows you to serve others. Serving others is love. Love is an essential ingredient for happiness.

Very well put. Of course, it is also true that having the strength to admit your shortcomings or areas of weakness, allowing yourself to communicate your vulnerability, best allows others to serve you. I am currently down for the count with yet another respiratory virus, and this is causing me to question whether teaching young children is the variety of paid-volunteer work I should be doing given that my lungs are theoretically permanently scarred due to severe childhood asthma.


@J_:

It would be hard for me to break it down into time/effort spent on one versus the other since I am only semi-retired and semi-fit (still coasting a bit in my 50s on my luck-of-the-draw hormonal tendency towards being shapely vs. in-shape), and I attempt to approach all goals within system. So, for instance, on any given day I might choose to not transfer to a second bus, and walk the last few miles home at the end of my 4 hour work day.

OTOH, I do have some concept of an ideal in each of these categories (in addition to several others), which I have not yet achieved, and I do track metrics related to both. For instance, I periodically measure my waistline with a string that is the length of my height in order to gauge likelihood of internal abdominal fat deposits and overall muscle mass percentage. I think and average of 2 hours/day spent on a variety of personalized activities towards health and fitness might be ideal. More than that would likely have lower marginal value than other activities towards overall personal growth or happiness.

My very personal ideal two hours might look something like:

1) Cut up fruit for snacks to lessen possibility of giving into cookie monster: 10 minutes
2) Tap Dance Class: 70 minutes
3) Swing Kettle Ball: 10 minutes
4) Track health metrics/skim article on health topic: 10 minutes
5) Evening walk with friend: 20 minutes

Another day I might dig trench in my garden, hike, swim, do yoga or take leisurely bike ride. IOW, my ideal is not maximizing efficiency, or even maximizing fitness metrics relative to other goals. This is also true in terms of my approach to FI, because my personality is in alignment with Make Work Fun/Make Play Productive philosophy. MMV and certainly does on this forum-lol.

[jacob]

One of the worst things I can think of that ruins FI is developing a chronic issue both because of its ongoing costs but also because of loss of physical independence. Therefore, I actively try to avoid what I can. This means lifestyle diseases via exercise/diet but it also means I avoid or have stopped with sports that has a higher risk of permanent injury(*). I have learned that I'm not 20 anymore, so there's a limit to how much I can push my body in that direction and get away with it. I don't mind sports that could kill me as much as ones that would cause permanent immobility, etc.

(*) Example of things I will no longer do: Hockey, boxing, bike racing, ...

It does seem to me that most people my age (42) still think we're immortal in the physiological sense figuring we can always change/catch-up later. We're not quite at the age where diabetes, heart attacks, or being too heavy for our muscles to get out of the couch is an issue yet, but we are beginning to see these issues in people who are less than a decade older.

I suppose this is no different from how most people [this age] think of saving for retirement---that it's still something they can start on "tomorrow". There's an inability to translate present behavior into future consequences and really appreciate the connection on a deep level. I think there's a tendency to ignore statistics and believe that we're the exception.

[ducknalddon]

I'm starting to think the same, I fell off my bike last week and fractured a bone in my arm. It should be OK after about six weeks but I'm thinking I probably shouldn't be quite so aggressive when I'm out riding. I won't give up the bike though

The same goes for work around the house, if it requires a ladder, chainsaw or similar then I'll leave it to someone younger than me.

[J_]

Yes, adapting your sports according to its danger for injuries and you're changing abilities with growing age is just wise. 14 Years ago I changed alpine skiing for cross country skiing, and this year I changed horse riding to start playing tennis.

But what is equal important for your health (to me) is to regular check if you are eating healthy. This is not to start another topic about vegan or meat. It is more to tell that I make it regularly study about which food contributes to health and which not. E.g. every time a friend or family member gets an illness I ask/see/know about their lifestyle and food-habits and then I try to find out what caused that illness and which food pattern had could avoid that. It is practicing the old adagium let food be your medicine and medicine be your food. It is a continuous study.

Last two weeks I was on holiday in Cyprus (part of the EU) with its very nice climate in this time of the year, we booked half-board (I think the first in 10 years). The breakfast and diner was offered buffet-style. Looking what type of persons choose to eat and in what quantities was revealing! Most of the guests could not resist the temptation to load too much and too fat of the rich offered varieties on their plate. I made that mistake also for about two days. But could correct that by lots of swimming in the Mediterranean Sea and the gym of the resort (I discovered the pleasures of a rowing machine). If there comes a next time I will not book half-board again, or not longer than for one week.

[jacob]

@J_ Hehe, if you saw me at a free-for-all buffet, you might get the wrong impression of what and how much I eat daily.

If you like rowing machines and competing, check out Concept2. Some models hook up to the internet and you can row against others. http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/racing

[almostthere]

So I ask the forum do you spend as much time and effort to reach/maintain fi as you spend time and effort to become/stay fit and healthy?

While I was healthy and worked to maintain my health pre-FI, post FI I have the time to focus on health. I could not work and lift the very heavy weight I am now b/c I need too much recovery time. I can also take three hours in the gym twice a week because I have time. I also note that many post FI males seem to channel some of their previous ambition into health and especially strength (Mr. MMM as prime example).

Similar to Jacob's comment as I age, I too see the results of others bad choices that are about ten years older than me. I also know more frail old people. Sarcopenia and osteopenia scare me. The number of people that take steps to fight them is astounding low. How many 65 year men with biceps do you see? A male friend of mine who is only 54 fell and broke his hip. Diagnosis - osteoporosis. That was turning point for me.

Also, I think the same willingness to take the path less traveled that worked with getting to FI works for health. In the same way that I easily saw others mistakes in the use of the money, I see the same mistakes in health. I was fine with making different choices and being seen as different with money. Now I do the same in health. I can skip the sugar while other roll their eyes and snigger about my eating habits.

As I age, I seem to be going back to the things that made me happy in middle school. Luckily for me, one of those was lifting weights.

Finally, the idea of health span versus lifespan also resonated with me as soon as I heard it in very similar way to the way "financial independence" did.

[Farm_or]

Here's another thought to ponder (especially for those with maternal instinct):

Have you ever sat through the safety lecture on a plane before take off? Why do you suppose they make it a point for people travelling with young children to put your oxygen mask on first before helping your dependent (s)?

[J_]

@Farm-or: I suppose that you mean to say that (in emergencies) you first have to take care for yourself, so that you are fit (with oxygen) you can help others. Yes, and more general-speaking: if you work/study seriously to maintain good health, you will be less burden to society/relatives/friends as you will need less care during your life.

@Jacob:
1: seems a good rowing-machine, thanks. First I will go next Saturday to a rowing club (with boats) in my town to see if that is a good option for me.

2: You are right for the first day(s). Still: Standing before that "free" buffet I felt as if I was doing the Marsh Mellow test of the famous Stanfort investigation. The delayed gratification of eating good and in proportion what your body need versus eat everything what taste well in big quantities, is "good health". It is the same delayed gratification (of health) which gives me (a big part of) the motivation to do sports to stay fit and in shape.

[Jason]

I am facing this with dental. If I do not change now, I will be in for big trouble/expenses down the road.

[7Wannabe5]

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
For a hundred miles through the desert, repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.

-Mary Oliver

[J_]

Poetry can be consoling, yes, thanks Wanna-Bee.

[J_]

In Holland we have Sinterklaas at the beginning of December, where old Saint Klaas rides over the roofs and chimneys on his horse. Every one gets a little present. I found this one adressed to my forum-members.

Sinterklaas Rhyme:

start Early Right Eating and health will stay long
add some sports, you'l be well and young

so study nutrition, don’t let the lobby-beast win
enjoy eating well, for that is no sin

our web of goals is a woven toy
of FI and food to a life full of joy!