Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

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jacob
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by jacob »

Slash and burn agriculture ... or hunting as it is in this case.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Yeah, kind of terrible but extremely interesting at the same time. There is some evidence that natives of the North American continent made such extensive use of slash/burn that the decimation of their population by small-pox and other urban European pathogens may have contributed to the Little Ice Age.

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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by conwy »

Peanut wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:30 pm
The Ayurvedic ( ancient Indian? ) diet is an interesting breakdown of what you should be eating according to body type.
Ayurvedic medicine looks awesome! Can't wait to learn about it and incorporate aspects into my diet.

Shep
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by Shep »

I'm late to the party on this one and a few others I want to respond to but in case anyone here reads...I switched to a plant based diet after spending a rainy day watching Hippocrates Health Institute videos that featured Dr Kapper, Dr Eslystine, Mcdougall, and a few others...I'm missing one of the younger guys that came from generations of Cattle Ranchers. Also The China Study Guy was featured in this forum. I was so inspired. Especially because. had been dealing with serious digestive problems that were causing a lot of pain and interruption to my life and nothing seemed to work. It took about 5 months to get with the program - In addition to plant based, you need to limit the amount of oils, no dairy what so ever (Cancer Causing - they show tons of studies about the seriousness of this - simply put, Cows have to be kept permanently pregnant to keep producing milk and making man money so all those "Cow Sized" hormones are getting pumped into humans that were not meant to take in those hormones. We see a direct increase in cancer with the sneaking in of more and more dairy into food products by slathering everything with cheese, cream, and so on.

Surprisingly you can have breads, pasta, and potatoes. Plenty of them (McDougall) as long as you don't destroy them with oils, cream/dairy based sauces, and too much salt.

It's a learning process for example to find Pastas and Breads made w/out oil but you can find them. Good artisan sour dough breads are made w/3-4 ingredients - sourdough starter (whole wheat even better), water, sea salt. You can learn to make it yourself by searching on youtube...plenty of great videos on this.

So, increased my carbs...YES, increased my carbs. Note that the Atkins diet guy recently died of heart disease and was over weight. The "Younger Next Year" guy also died of cancer sadly at 57. Both ate Meat and Dairy.

Results: I have lost a ton of weight w/out increasing exercise or calorie counting of any kind - If I get hungry I just eat sour dough bread w/light layer of organic peanut butter - you can have some oils, just not a lot and not by itself. Concentrated oils of any kind are really bad for you - watch Dr Klapper talk about this. I also keep a bowl of raw broccoli, cauliflower, and carrots stashed right at eye level in the fridge with the rule that every time I open the door, I munch on a handful of those...so by the end of the day w/out trying, I have consumed all the vegetables I need w/out thinking about it or how to cook them or how to make them taste better - no need. So efficient and the body loves it.

All of my digestion issues have disappeared - this alone has made it all worth it and I will not ever go back. I'm off the meds, no pain or acid reflux or any other issues ever. Introducing a lot more beans to the diet also really helps this and your body adapts so there are no extra gases over time. Beans coat your GI and rebuilds all the goodness your body needs - again, watch Michal Klapper (so positive...and McDougall also fantastic). Vids posted below.

I have saved a ton of money, cooking has become simpler, my mood has improved like1,000%, sleep better, high energy, I can't say enough about it.

The first couple months can be really hard...but sick with it...it can change your life. There is another poster on here that talks about this...I see a lot of folks seem to give him a hard time. It's "Michael" something...I will find you and lend support :).

Net is that this has changed my life.

Here is a link to Dr' Klappers site but look him up on Youtube where he walks you through the impact of Dairy and Meat on our bodies and society. https://www.doctorklaper.com

McDougall also has. great video on Steve Jobs and Cancer - You can learn a lot from this important video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

And Dr Ellisworth - a 98 Year Old Vegan Cardiologist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX58PyQwrcI

As you are watching all these old geezers...Observe that they have all "Made it" to be old w/out all the diseases plaguing so many these days that are much younger. They are thin, upright, have great posture, no shakes, and mental acuity...still.

Happy Viewing and Learning.

Shep

aptruncata
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by aptruncata »

I think the biggest hurdle would be to change the way you think.
It's not a diet but more of a way of life. Most people do not need all the fat and carbs available to us and really don't need the whole 3 meals a day plus the snacks and sugary drinks in between.

Say if you had a large apple, banana, handful of oat meal, an egg and a bottle of water; most people will do fine with this for a day and probably lose weight in the process. The hurdle comes when we think of this process as a "diet" some sort of temporary fix or "detox". If some of us were placed on a deserted island with rice, beans, water and edible shrubs and salt; more likely than not, most of us will far outlive our current lifestyles/eating habits.

If you have a "eating to relieve stress" or "eating for enjoyment" problem like most people, it's something that must be addressed first to be successful in the long run.

Good Luck

Mae
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by Mae »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:22 pm
Cooking changes the nutritional profile of foods. Some nutrients are more bio-available after cooking. Just because something is raw, that doesn't mean it is superior. A kidney bean that has not been boiled, is quite poisonous, for instance.
As a vegan who would love for people to eat plant-based in a sustainable manner, I would NEVER recommend a raw food diet. Scott 2 has some good arguments.

I'm a big fan of unnaturalvegan on YouTube. She used to eat raw WFPB and experienced a ton of problems because of it. She has a philosophy background and debunks a lot of myths about the raw diet and other things: https://www.youtube.com/user/FitOnRaw/search?query=raw

Should you choose to continue exploring the raw plant-based kitchen (please don't), I'd suggest watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5UzYVy6AU

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fiby41
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by fiby41 »

My rule of thumb is any dietary advice that can be denoted in a few words is probably a bad idea. I'm more or less willing to eat anything as long as no cows were hurt for making it.

monkeymanwasd123
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by monkeymanwasd123 »

I would recommend a whole foods semi raw carnivore diet where in you try to eat the organs raw rather than the meat though im fairly sure that if you eat the meat raw malnutrition wont pop up regardless but if you cook it youll be able to get a few more calories out of your dollar

monkeymanwasd123
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by monkeymanwasd123 »

@Fiby41

How does eating retired dairy cows sound if they are raised. Via permaculture and allan savory without any of the issues you would consider as the cows being hurt aside from trying to get the cows to breed more often naturally, potential complications during childbirth, and the short of time when the animal is harvested
Last edited by monkeymanwasd123 on Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fiby41
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by fiby41 »

monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:57 am
How does eating retired dairy cows sound if they are raised.
A person has seven mothers. First is the mother that gives birth, second mother is the nurse, third mother is the wife of the preceptor/guru, fourth mother is the queen, fifth is the priestess, sixth is the cow as she nourishes with milk and seventh is the earth. So it is not advisable to kill a mother when she stops giving milk. This is the Sanatanist/Eternalist argument.

The reformist counterargument is this reluctance to cut the cow when faced with starvation necessitates maintainance of long distance supply chains whose dysfunction has led to defeats. Cow is worthy of protection so long as this serves humanitarian and national interests is the utilitarian view.

The simpler the dietary advice the easier it is to make a cult out of. Effects on health aside, this is the least I can do to respect my coreligionites' sensibilities.

ToFI
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by ToFI »

I am vegan but I don't eat raw except fruits and nuts. I cook all vegetables. It's more palatable and sanitary by cooking it. The nutritional benefit of eating raw is a hype.

steveo73
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by steveo73 »

I'm not a vegan however I try to eat mostly unprocessed plant based foods. I think a raw food plant based diet is something you could only do for a limited time period in order to lose substantial amount of weight. I would view it as very similar to a fasting diet.

I have fruit smoothies that are raw and I eat fruit raw as well but this is pretty normal. I also eat a tonne of whole grains (muesli and nuts and seeds), rice, pasta, beans etc. We eat some meat and dairy. Myself and my wife eat a lot less meat and dairy compared to the kids. I'd prefer not to but making food palatable for the whole family is tough and I suppose it's hard to enforce your values on other people even your kids.

monkeymanwasd123
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by monkeymanwasd123 »

A carbohydrate based diet would only work via caloric restriction which is really harmful to your health, the Wim Hof method or if you can keto diet might do the job but you're better off going on normal keto diet or a carnivore diet as those are actually ketosis based diets and the Wim Hof method relies on ketones for a good number of its benefits. See you then in the lake are definitely not good for you just ask the other plant-based folks around here

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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by steveo73 »

This is absolute nonsense. I use science and facts to state what a healthy diet is and any diet high in meat is completely unhealthy. All low carbohydrate/high meat diets are extremely unhealthy and will lead to increases in your chances of mortality from all causes (predominantly heart disease and cancer related illnesses).

Please note that my comments are backed up via the broad general scientific consensus. You will find outlier scientific studies to support your belief system however it's been disproved so many times it's not funny.

Lastly no diet works if you want to lose weight without calorie restriction. The reason high carbohydrate diets are effective is that plant based foods are high in the nutrients that we need plus they are low in calories. High meat based diets and high in calories and the bad stuff that leads to heart disease and various cancers.

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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by monkeymanwasd123 »

Let me rephrase that a carbohydrate based diet for weight lost would only be done via caloric restriction fasting or a medicinal short-term diet. The the Lake bit was autocorrect messing with me, what I was trying to say was that grains in their conventional form are usually not good for you. For the scientific part of the conversation it took me a few years to get into the carnivore diet based off of the keto diet vegan keto diet permaculture the Wim Hof method fasting and the like so I don't have a small set of cultivated research I can send you. I can try to explain how it works in the leg and I can tell you that I believe that in meat cause a certain type of cancer while a plant-based diet causes other types of cancer and that people have certain existing health issues gained before or during the diet those concerns will be more likely to become a problem. I've seen different research than you you've seen different research to me I'm working on developing a compromise I'd be satisfied with incredibly nutrient-dense permaculture diet. Mentioning that there is a general consensus is a fallacy of some sort no I don't remember the name or rather a number of fallacies. I've seen research that says the opposite of yours, I believe that there will be a compromise but I don't think it'll be within the next 20 years before I trust plant-based diets enough that I would go on one for more than a few months or more than 3 years. When you say I bet there are outlying studies that I would turn to that isn't quite accurate as while I do have a few like that most of the ones that I refer to are more conventional ones that are used by the plant base community to argue against gluten or the like. As for meat-based diets being disproved it's going to take a couple hundred more years before that's even possible on either side. I think you missed what I was trying to say about the caloric restriction. What I was referring to was yo-yo diet type weight loss where you go on a heavily calorically restricted diet and your body eventually adapts to the point where you began to gain the weight back eventually becoming obese again or potentially even worse than before. Ketogenic diets are qualitatively different as when the body switches to a ketogenic state it is able to expel fat to a degree even without caloric restriction while there is some caloric restriction the damage from running carbohydrates and fat in the same system is what I think causes the problem and the stress of running vegetable oil and jet fuel in the same vehicle is my explanation for why a conventional diet is bad. Caloric restriction is bad in different sense as you are actually get your main source of energy from carbs but because you are not in a proper state of ketosis the process of taking energy and nutrition from your body damages your heart and other organs. When you say high meat diet it sounds like you're talking about the sad diet. While you and I may be other side of the fence from each other we both agree on the need for high nutrition versus energy. I believe that some plant-based folks have reached a sustainable level but in permaculture we have a joke about sustainability it is sustainability means barely not dying. If someone gets sick or isn't eating a high enough quality plant-based diet I believe that they won't be able to recover on that diet any plant based diet unless they get lucky. With a keto diet carnivore diet or Diet containing more than a vegetarian amount of animal products I believe that animals have at least a moderate amount of nutrition in them and the energy in the form of fat and protein is so bioavailable, x,y,z, x, ect that it is at least somewhat regenerative even if they are only eating terrible grain-fed beef that had stunted growth malnutrition and the like because it would have been able to live at least some amount of time and when we eat those animals we ate what remained what day is it in the form of their body.

monkeymanwasd123
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by monkeymanwasd123 »

conwy wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:12 pm
My advice to people on plant-based diets is to eat seafood or Critters that the person feels okay with eating be that bugs or non-fertilized eggs, fermented foods, fungi, to practice the Wim Hof method and a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head. Folks in the carnivore community I research that suggests that fiber actually causes constipation rather than fixed assets as when it does fix it you are essentially flushing a brick in order to get rid of a blockage in your pipes. So when I saw that you still included Seafood in your diet I was super happy. If you begin to have issues please consider eating for more of those lower Critters or a good number more of the critters higher up on the food chain.

monkeymanwasd123
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by monkeymanwasd123 »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:49 pm
More chaos as another species of invasive pyrophyte exploits niche likely created by global climate change:

https://www.sciencealert.com/birds-inte ... wk-raptors
This is certainly interesting for me as well though I think fire came a tiny bit later in our meat eating evolution.

monkeymanwasd123
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by monkeymanwasd123 »

jacob wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:55 pm
Slash and burn agriculture ... or hunting as it is in this case.
Not exactly some forms of slash-and-burn agriculture can actually be regenerative as seen with the California natives and the like. Chop and drop is good and occasional controlled Burns is also good especially in fire-prone areas where introducing higher quality fires maintains a fire-resistant ecology in the form of a savanna or the like

steveo73
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by steveo73 »

monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:14 am
what I was trying to say was that grains in their conventional form are usually not good for you.
This is factually incorrect. Whole grains are a really important part of a healthy diet.
monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:14 am
For the scientific part of the conversation it took me a few years to get into the carnivore diet based off of the keto diet vegan keto diet permaculture the Wim Hof method fasting and the like so I don't have a small set of cultivated research I can send you.
I don't go off cherry picked data and studies. I utilize the standard advice on healthy diets. Intermittent fasting does have some scientific proof around it. High meat diets also have scientific proof around them however the proof states that they increase your chances of all cause mortality.

Just re-read that and let it sink in. When there is scientific proof I use it. Up until this year I thought that IF was bullshit. Once I had read proof it works I agree it works. High meat diets are proven to be unhealthy. Not even break even or something like that. They are a great diet if you want to decrease your chances of living a long healthy life.
monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:14 am
I've seen different research than you you've seen different research to me I'm working on developing a compromise I'd be satisfied with incredibly nutrient-dense permaculture diet.
You have seen dumb cherry picked studies. I know what these high meat doctors/scientists etc are like. They cherry pick data and it's unbelievably stupid.

Post your studies and I'll show you how stupid they are but they are stupid. Maybe a better idea is to compare your studies to the studies on nutrition facts.
monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:14 am
you missed what I was trying to say about the caloric restriction. What I was referring to was yo-yo diet type weight loss where you go on a heavily calorically restricted diet and your body eventually adapts to the point where you began to gain the weight back eventually becoming obese again or potentially even worse than before.
This is reality. That is how diets work. It's also why I think you should eat for health which means a whole food plant based diet. That is the current state of where we are at with scientific research and it has been like that for years. A high meat will never ever ever ever in a million years be considered healthy via legitimate scientific studies. This is over and done.
monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:14 am
Ketogenic diets are qualitatively different
Unfortunately this is another unscientific piece of gobbledock.

Diets that result in weight loss do so solely on the basis of decreasing calories and your body adopts to that. I'd also add that what you are stating is disproven by scientific studies. You actually put back more weight on those low carb/high meat diets.
monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:14 am
When you say high meat diet it sounds like you're talking about the sad diet.
No we are talking the same thing but I use science and facts whereas you use nonsense. I don't know why this is the case but you are not unusual in this regard. I'd like to understand why you think this way because you are so wrong it's not funny.
monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:14 am
With a keto diet carnivore diet or Diet containing more than a vegetarian amount of animal products I believe that animals have at least a moderate amount of nutrition in them and the energy in the form of fat and protein is so bioavailable, x,y,z, x, ect that it is at least somewhat regenerative even if they are only eating terrible grain-fed beef that had stunted growth malnutrition and the like because it would have been able to live at least some amount of time and when we eat those animals we ate what remained what day is it in the form of their body.
This is such nonsense and is not backed up by scientific studies at all.

Sorry about being clear and direct about this stuff but you need to go and educate yourself on the subject. I suggest you go to nutrition facts and just start studying that site. Then compare the science based approach on that site to where you obtain your belief systems. The difference will be chalk and cheese. It's bro-science versus actual science.
Last edited by steveo73 on Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

steveo73
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Re: Raw, whole-food, plant-based diet?

Post by steveo73 »

monkeymanwasd123 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:28 am
Folks in the carnivore community I research that suggests that fiber actually causes constipation rather than fixed assets as when it does fix it you are essentially flushing a brick in order to get rid of a blockage in your pipes.
Do you know how stupid this is. Seriously. Fibre causes you to go to the toilet. I eat a lot of plant based foods but I'm not vegan. I have lost weight over the last say 2-3 months and I go to the toilet all the time. Anecdotal evidence is crap but fibre causes you to go the toilet and it's only available in plant based foods.

I have real concerns for people like yourself because if you continue down this path you are putting yourself on the path to poor health. It's extremely dangerous.

Communities are not scientific studies. They are often echo chambers for people who don't know how to think for themselves and don't like to hear viewpoints that go against their belief systems no matter how irrational those belief systems are.
Last edited by steveo73 on Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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